Ayton sorta sucks

[Cheesebeef]

Is David Robinson a closer comparison as far as the type of player?

Ask me again in 2 years. Robinson came on older, had a military discipline and was a leader from Day 1.

and while Ayton and Robinson are/were nice guys, you could NEVER accuse The Admiral of the loafing Ayton is guilty of for stretches. He also doesn’t have Robinson’s defensive instincts. Where Robinson struggled was his late game confidence that always got shaky down the stretch of big games on offense.

Ayton possesses similar skill set with his jumper, turn around move at the baseline and general athleticism. But he doesn’t have Robinson’s drive. Hopefully a “yet” belongs at the end of that statement, but time will tell.

 

[1Sun]

ESPN mentioned during the game today that it's been a long time since he had a double-double.

It didn't sound right. I wonder what the fact is.

He had 18 and 12 against the Heat on Saturday.

 

[Sunburn]

"Definitely getting to my second contract; that's my success."

 

[Hoop Head]

OK then, let's see it from Ayton.

The pace of life in the Caribbean is a lot slower than in the States.

Duncan being an exception is no help to the Suns.

And pace of life is slower in Alabama compared to New York. That doesn't mean that players from Alabama can't be better and more aggressive than those from New York.

Steve Nash was from Canada and Canadians are a lot more laid back than people in the States, why wasn't he passive? He was the opposite, having helped create one of the most exciting and aggressive offenses in NBA history. How is that possible when he was raised in a slow paced environment?

This whole notion you have than Ayton is the player he is in large part because he's from the Bahamas isn't based in reality and makes you sound prejudice. You haven't been able to back up that theory at all so you should really drop it.

 

[Covert Rain]

Where are your pulling your stats from? Ayton's not qualifying on the sites I'm looking at since he hasn't played in 70% of our games.

All sites have different qualifying number of games. Then the stats can look even different depending on the time use for PER. I just pulled them from here because honestly you can slice stats on sites every which way. Regardless this is an indicator of performance. I pulled it here:

https://stats.nba.com/players/tradi...n=C&sort=PTS&dir=-1&SeasonType=Regular Season

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's the #45 ranked CENTER in Field Goal %? Is that right??

Yes but the vast majority above him on that list are limited scorers (Tyson for example, averaging 1.3 points per game leads the field). Ayton is averaging 18.6 per game, Harrell is too but he comes in at number 30 - Sabonis is just below Ayton's average at 18.5 and he comes in a couple spots below DA in FG%.

 

[GatorAZ]

"Definitely getting to my second contract; that's my success."

Externally motivated. Nobody is playing for free but let your game and not your words speak for your contract.

His word means nothing really... Shaq 2.0, patterns game after KG, talks about maturity with Woj and misses a test the next day Yada yada yada... Just be quiet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Externally motivated. Nobody is playing for free but let your game and not your words speak for your contract.

His word means nothing really... Shaq 2.0, patterns game after KG, talks about maturity with Woj and misses a test the next day Yada yada yada... Just be quiet.

agreed.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yes but the vast majority above him on that list are limited scorers (Tyson for example, averaging 1.3 points per game leads the field). Ayton is averaging 18.6 per game, Harrell is too but he comes in at number 30 - Sabonis is just below Ayton's average at 18.5 and he comes in a couple spots below DA in FG%.

Ayton is 7th in FG% among qualifying centers. Not sure why someone would bother to suggest he is 45th unless they are just going out of their way to try and make him look bad.

 

[Phrazbit]

Ayton is, mostly, playing at an elite level, in some ways better than any of of would have hoped... in all ways but one. A big one.

Ayton has a serious problem with aggressiveness in the paint. In situations where his defender is flat footed, knowing they won't be able to contest, he far too often settles for a weak jumper. Shaq, Barkley, Amare... those guys would see that opportunity and attack, make the defender decide between a physical contest or a free dunk. If Ayton attacked the rim in those spots only a few times per game his free throw rate would double, and accordingly the critiques of his game would almost disappear. Well... assuming he didn't flake on drug/disease testing.

His impact is unquestionable. We obliterated the Thunder once he was on the court, but to see a guy with his gifts waste them on 8 food fadeaway jumpers is very frustrating.

He seems like he is in cruise control most of the time... yet he averages 18-12 and makes an astounding impact on defense, and it is worth noting he JUST turned 22. If he was just a BIT more assertive on offense I think he could easily average 25 points a game, while causing serious foul problems for opposing front courts.

 

[Western Font]

Ayton is, mostly, playing at an elite level, in some ways better than any of of would have hoped... in all ways but one. A big one.

Ayton has a serious problem with aggressiveness in the paint. In situations where his defender is flat footed, knowing they won't be able to contest, he far too often settles for a weak jumper. Shaq, Barkley, Amare... those guys would see that opportunity and attack, make the defender decide between a physical contest or a free dunk. If Ayton attacked the rim in those spots only a few times per game his free throw rate would double, and accordingly the critiques of his game would almost disappear. Well... assuming he didn't flake on drug/disease testing.

His impact is unquestionable. We obliterated the Thunder once he was on the court, but to see a guy with his gifts waste them on 8 food fadeaway jumpers is very frustrating.

He seems like he is in cruise control most of the time... yet he averages 18-12 and makes an astounding impact on defense, and it is worth noting he JUST turned 22. If he was just a BIT more assertive on offense I think he could easily average 25 points a game, while causing serious foul problems for opposing front courts.

His aggressiveness is definitely an issue (especially compared to the talking he does on social media). But at this point I don’t understand why they aren’t running more plays for him down low, especially early in the game. I see him raising his hand in the paint often enough, but usually to no result. Even when his teammates drive they rarely try to get the ball to him, and his points tend to come from put-backs. I know it’s not the 90s and I know I’m not the coach, but it just seems like a big advantage is being left on the table against a lot of opponents?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ayton is 7th in FG% among qualifying centers. Not sure why someone would bother to suggest he is 45th unless they are just going out of their way to try and make him look bad.

Yeah I think it was just the search parameters he chose rather than an intentional effort to make him look bad.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah I think it was just the search parameters he chose rather than an intentional effort to make him look bad.

Well I would hope that people would understand that if you include everyone who has played a single minute into your search parameters that it is going to skew your results a lot.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well I would hope that people would understand that if you include everyone who has played a single minute into your search parameters that it is going to skew your results a lot.

Sure but I think it was just an attempt to work around the fact that Ayton doesn't meet the minimum number of games because of his unscheduled vacation.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton is 7th in FG% among qualifying centers. Not sure why someone would bother to suggest he is 45th unless they are just going out of their way to try and make him look bad.

Don't be ridiculous. There were several stats on that page. I don't have time to search multiple sites to find the one site that has him look good in several aspects and bad in one. PLEASE READ. I didn't differentiate or take a stance on that original post. In addition, my subsequent post added additional qualifiers to state that many sites have different qualifiers and even then many use different calculations for PER.

The point of the post wasn't to make a definitive comparison between all the sites and their methodologies. It was to show an indication of his progress at this point in time. It's no secret he has to get more aggressive. You don't need stats to determine that. We see it every night even though I think he has improved.

Next time if you want to respond with hey...I don't think that site ranking him #45 is a good indication because they are including players who played limited minutes that would be fair.

To accuse me of going out of my way to bash him is STUPID. If you can show me where I have ever went out of my way to bash Ayton go for it.

I will wait.

 

[Mainstreet]

Is David Robinson a closer comparison as far as the type of player?

That's who comes to mind for me.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Embarrassing thread. Should be deleted.

Agreed, or renamed. What if we all had people observing us start our first professional job and starting an online discussion about it with a derogatory title? I am sure that the beginning of my professional career would have generated quite a few negative posts for a while, but having a whole thread about how I "suck" would not have been appreciated. Would anyone here like a thread on them noting your mistakes, and discussing how you suck? Perpetuated through your whole career?

I know that because pro athletes make so much stinking money, people think they are entitled to rip them up, call them POS, whatever, but I personally am not comfortable with that. A lot of these athletes are basically still "kids" growing up, still making stupid mistakes. And yes, someone can still be a "kid" in their 20's, maybe an adult in years, but not in maturity or decision making. Should they grow the F up? Yes. Are they there yet? No. I speak from personal experience.

End of rant. Incoming fire in 3, 2, 1...

 

[1Sun]

Looking at the thread title and the posts that started it, I wonder what observers would say after watching us start our first real job or profession.

Mine


Agreed, or renamed. What if we all had people observing us start our first professional job and starting an online discussion about it with a derogatory title? I am sure that the beginning of my professional career would have generated quite a few negative posts for a while, but having a whole thread about how I "suck" would not have been appreciated. Would anyone here like a thread on them noting your mistakes, and discussing how you suck? Perpetuated through your whole career?

I know that because pro athletes make so much stinking money, people think they are entitled to rip them up, call them POS, whatever, but I personally am not comfortable with that. A lot of these athletes are basically still "kids" growing up, still making stupid mistakes. And yes, someone can still be a "kid" in their 20's, maybe an adult in years, but not in maturity or decision making. Should they grow the F up? Yes. Are they there yet? No. I speak from personal experience.

End of rant. Incoming fire in 3, 2, 1...

Fine, but then don't pay them like grown-ups until they start acting like grown-ups. Age and maturity or not, these guys are professionals, and they deserve to be called out when they act unprofessionally. Nobody else on this roster has acted anywhere close to as unprofessionally as Ayton has. And Ayton doesn't seem to be improving in that department, or even trying to do so.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Ayton is, mostly, playing at an elite level, in some ways better than any of of would have hoped... in all ways but one. A big one.

Ayton has a serious problem with aggressiveness in the paint. In situations where his defender is flat footed, knowing they won't be able to contest, he far too often settles for a weak jumper. Shaq, Barkley, Amare... those guys would see that opportunity and attack, make the defender decide between a physical contest or a free dunk. If Ayton attacked the rim in those spots only a few times per game his free throw rate would double, and accordingly the critiques of his game would almost disappear. Well... assuming he didn't flake on drug/disease testing.

His impact is unquestionable. We obliterated the Thunder once he was on the court, but to see a guy with his gifts waste them on 8 food fadeaway jumpers is very frustrating.

He seems like he is in cruise control most of the time... yet he averages 18-12 and makes an astounding impact on defense, and it is worth noting he JUST turned 22. If he was just a BIT more assertive on offense I think he could easily average 25 points a game, while causing serious foul problems for opposing front courts.

Exactly...he should be an unstoppable Shaq/Amare like offensive force - a guy that terrifies the other team by getting their front line in foul trouble. It's incredible that he continues to make the most basic of mistakes, but falls out of bed with 18/10.

He should be much better than what he is, and that's the frustration.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2348862/suns-deandre-ayton-has-no-excuse-for-missed-covid-19-test/

Truth is, it’s another dumbfounding event in Ayton’s checkered career, where the only constant seems to be varying levels of disappointment.

Spare me the apologists who say he’s young and growing. He’s also a professional athlete earning nearly $10 million a year. And you wonder when he’s going to learn to take all of this more seriously, including the livelihoods of those around him.

Brutal

 

[BC867]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2348862/suns-deandre-ayton-has-no-excuse-for-missed-covid-19-test/

Brutal

But true!

 

[Covert Rain]

But true!

100% true. Ayton has all the physical tools to dominate the league for a decade. The roadblock? His head.

 

[Cheesebeef]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2348862/suns-deandre-ayton-has-no-excuse-for-missed-covid-19-test/



Brutal

The truth hurts.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Why Ayton is not David robinson:
The Admiral was:

• 1st team all defense 4 times.
• 92 DPOY
• 95 MVP
• 91 Led league in rebounding
• 92 Led league in blocks per game
• 94 Scoring Champ
• 10x All Star

All in 13 full seasons.

I think many people are sleeping on how much of a bad-ass David Robinson actually was.

 

[95pro]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2348862/suns-deandre-ayton-has-no-excuse-for-missed-covid-19-test/



Brutal

Not really, its just the truth.