BA, "We Played Stupid"

[Harry]

On the surface this sounds fine. However, my concern is that this just wasn't the case. Now I'm not saying they didn't make dumb mistakes. I'm just saying that was a small part of the problem. As I see it the Cards failed in so many areas that the situation snowballed into total failure.

It started with bad personnel decisions like no CB depth, slim O-line depth and no return man on the roster. They treated the draft like it was all about future rights rather than players who could offer immediate help. Then the Cards treated the preseason like it was for amusement purposes only.

It only took one winnable game to be lost before they realized they had an empty corner. The first half of the season was spent trying to get the offensive rhythm the preseason should have given them. The second half was spent trying to overcome injuries that exposed their depth issues. Overshadowing the entire season was the near total incompetence of the special teams units. I know this is strong language but I don't recall ever seeing a contender with special teams this bad. It's also a concern that BA didn't see this as a major failing.

My concern is that if the Cards think this can all be fixed by playing "smarter," fans are in for a long year. Free agency will force real change, but not necessarily the needed change. Jones returns as ST coach, but has done little to deserve that confidence. Keim will have to do a major makeover of personnel. The Cards will need to treat preseason as an opportunity for a needed fast start. Finally, this team is likely to be just a marginal contender. The whole performance must be greater than the sum of the parts. Avoiding dumb mistakes will help, but stellar play will need to be the rule, not the exception.

 

[BigRedRage]

Where the "we played stupid" came from : http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/po...on-we-played-stupid-at-times-and-that-cost-us

 

[football karma]

I think the 2nd paragraph and ST observations are spot on

I also am concerned about attributing poor specials teams play to 3 missed kicks and guys like Alani Fua (among others) being injured (a BA explanation).

I have little doubt that BA is shielding Jones -- BA is too smart to not see the issues, but wants to give his friend a do over to get it right.

 

[Stout]

If they add we GMed and coached stupid on top of it, then I'll buy what they're selling Let's hope that changes this season.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Couldn't agree more with what Harry says.

 

[Bodha]

At this point Im blaming Keim for Jones.

Keim is the boss. If BA refuses to fire Jones, then Keim needs to put his foot down and take control.

Winning is the only thing that matters. BAs choice to protect Jones hurts our team. We cant have any person or decision hurting our team.

 

[Stout]

At this point Im blaming Keim for Jones.

Keim is the boss. If BA refuses to fire Jones, then Keim needs to put his foot down and take control.

Winning is the only thing that matters. BAs choice to protect Jones hurts our team. We cant have any person or decision hurting our team.

Agreed.

 

[football karma]

At this point Im blaming Keim for Jones.

Keim is the boss. If BA refuses to fire Jones, then Keim needs to put his foot down and take control.

Winning is the only thing that matters. BAs choice to protect Jones hurts our team. We cant have any person or decision hurting our team.

too dogmatic

what if the contract says the Headcoach picks his staff?

Even if not in the contract -- what if BA said "give him one more year -- if you make me fire him this year, i retire". You ready to fire the HC with the highest winning % in Cardinal history over a ST coach?

i think stuff like that is far easier said on message boards than actually done.

 

[Bodha]

too dogmatic

what if the contract says the Headcoach picks his staff?

Even if not in the contract -- what if BA said "give him one more year -- if you make me fire him this year, i retire". You ready to fire the HC with the highest winning % in Cardinal history over a ST coach?

i think stuff like that is far easier said on message boards than actually done.

You still fire Amos. Because at this point, 4 years of some of the worst special teams in the NFL, BA has exhausted his leverage.

Unfortunately BA has forced us beyond the "easy" point. The easy and reasonable thing was for BA to fire Amos in the last 2 years. Keim has to stop being friends, and start being a GM. And its BAs fault that Keim has to do that now.

 

[cardpa]

I am going to take two excerpts from the article

"When you look at the close losses and why, there was a lack of discipline at times," Arians said. "There was a lot of guys trying to do too much instead of just doing their job. We missed some kicks we should've made.

"There were mental mistakes," Keim said. "Certain times where guys had to step up and make plays and they didn't do it. That's the nature of the business that's tough."

Both the lack of discipline and mental mistakes are on the coaching staff as far as I am concerned. Lack of discipline is a lack of expectations put upon the players by the coaching staff to perform their jobs at a certain level and not accept anything less. Mental mistakes are also on the coaching because their requirement for execution by the players was lacking. Saying it's the nature of the business is a cop out and an excuse.

 

[Mitch]

I am going to take two excerpts from the article

"When you look at the close losses and why, there was a lack of discipline at times," Arians said. "There was a lot of guys trying to do too much instead of just doing their job. We missed some kicks we should've made.

"There were mental mistakes," Keim said. "Certain times where guys had to step up and make plays and they didn't do it. That's the nature of the business that's tough."

Both the lack of discipline and mental mistakes are on the coaching staff as far as I am concerned. Lack of discipline is a lack of expectations put upon the players by the coaching staff to perform their jobs at a certain level and not accept anything less. Mental mistakes are also on the coaching because their requirement for execution by the players was lacking. Saying it's the nature of the business is a cop out and an excuse.

How smart was it to put RB Kerwynn Williams as the middle punt protector? BA simply does not accept his own culpability or his STs coach's repeated mistakes. Heck, the two of them can't even get a punt returner to even act like he wants to do it. BA lost the team last year because he puts all the onus on the players and very little on himself and the coaches.

Even worse, Steve Keim is an enabler. He too professed that coaching wasn't the problem. C'mon man.

My worry is that when BA retires Keim will acquiesce to BA's wishes and promotes Harold Goodwin or James Bettcher to HC. While I think they are good assistants, neither one has the gravitas of a bona fide NFL HC. Yet, BA acts like he's Bear Bryant when it comes to developing HCs.

 

[Finito]

On the surface this sounds fine. However, my concern is that this just wasn't the case. Now I'm not saying they didn't make dumb mistakes. I'm just saying that was a small part of the problem. As I see it the Cards failed in so many areas that the situation snowballed into total failure.

It started with bad personnel decisions like no CB depth, slim O-line depth and no return man on the roster. They treated the draft like it was all about future rights rather than players who could offer immediate help. Then the Cards treated the preseason like it was for amusement purposes only.

It only took one winnable game to be lost before they realized they had an empty corner. The first half of the season was spent trying to get the offensive rhythm the preseason should have given them. The second half was spent trying to overcome injuries that exposed their depth issues. Overshadowing the entire season was the near total incompetence of the special teams units. I know this is strong language but I don't recall ever seeing a contender with special teams this bad. It's also a concern that BA didn't see this as a major failing.

My concern is that if the Cards think this can all be fixed by playing "smarter," fans are in for a long year. Free agency will force real change, but not necessarily the needed change. Jones returns as ST coach, but has done little to deserve that confidence. Keim will have to do a major makeover of personnel. The Cards will need to treat preseason as an opportunity for a needed fast start. Finally, this team is likely to be just a marginal contender. The whole performance must be greater than the sum of the parts. Avoiding dumb mistakes will help, but stellar play will need to be the rule, not the exception.

And with that being said. We were a handful of special teams plays from another double digit win season.

We are not the Cleveland Browns this is not a hopeless clueless team

 

[THESMEL]

http://www.espn.com/blog/arizona-ca...on-we-played-stupid-at-times-and-that-cost-us

Well I don't totally agree with Keim to blame, players were stupid and Ariana's and staff were perfect, didn't coach different than prior winning seasons.

Still lower tier of NFL rushing attempts and rankings with an offensive MVP at RB- patients is not BA's virtue. We lost more by pushing a higher risk one dimensional passing game - when we do not need to do so. It's true that one great pass play can cover up a lot of field fertilizer - but we were not practicing risk reduction. Earn 3rd dimensional play action by running the ball better and more. That's on the play caller again.

 

[unseenaz]

fire bruce ariana?

 

[JeffGollin]

If you hate coach-speak, you're really really gonna hate GM-speak when it comes to releasing/retaining coaches.

No way any GM in his right mind is going to air personnel dirty laundary in public.

 

[Brak]

#FireAmosJones

 

[JeffGollin]

And with that being said. We were a handful of special teams plays from another double digit win season.

We are not the Cleveland Browns this is not a hopeless clueless team

Precisely.

Regarding ST play - don't expect Jones to get thrown under the bus. That's not the way BA&SK operate. It's not that they're covering for an old crony. They rightfully don't use the media to air their dirty laundary.

At most, expect business to continue as usual, with nice things said about Jones right up & to the point where they part company with him.

 

[wit3card]

As I remember right, BA has all say of his staff, Keim can only talk to BA to fire Amos but, Keim can't fire Amos or only while firing BA to, that is not going to happen.

Keim isn't an enabler, he is the GM that gave one of the oldest coaches the hand over his stuff. The problem is the Arizona Media, they started to ask little to late, they aren't prepared well. If BA answers "coach is fine" you ask "why than the ST of this team is one of the worst since you are here?" And BANG ... you get pressure on him, and with any game you can ask about it you get more pressure on the Coach and he has to move on from his Assistant.

Amos is the worst ST coach I whitnessed in the last decade. Gosh without so bad punts we even would have won against the Panthers with Skelton... but ST that time was the 4th unit of the Panthers and not the 3rd of the Cards.

No it is not the players, this is the coach and we will see it, we have to hope we don't see it too much, that the ST doesn't cost us a Playoff spot/Playoff Game or a SB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Precisely.

Regarding ST play - don't expect Jones to get thrown under the bus. That's not the way BA&SK operate. It's not that they're covering for an old crony. They rightfully don't use the media to air their dirty laundary.

BA has ZERO problem throwing players under the bus and airing their dirty laundry.

But this quote bothers me about BA. It's Buddy Ryan-ish... blaming the players and not himself when the coaching/personnel moves (especially at CB and ALL the disasterous ST decisions) last year left A LOT to be desired. He has NOT once addressed those shortcomings in the press and it's a sign of weakness, IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

I can't disagree that games were lost by undisciplined play and mental mistakes. That is true.

As Harry points out, the roster was flawed from the start at CB and not having a viable return man on the roster. This is on Keim.

I disagree on the offensive line depth. We had a vet C, and a rookie C. We had two vet OGs in Iupati and Mathis, and then a vet backup in Watford. At OT, we had Veldheer (vet) and Humphries (1st round pick) and a vet backup in Watford. I don't know how much better depth you want with a salary cap and what we paid those guys.

Honestly, I disagree on Harry's view that lack of depth across the roster was an issue. It wasn't. QB, we were good. RB, we lost Chris Johnson, Ellington was worthless, and we still had a viable K Williams at times to spell DJ. WR, we lost our #2 WR to being an alcoholic, our #3 to sickle cell, #4 to a season ending injury. Not a depth issue. OL, as stated above, is not a depth issue. DL, was deep. OLB, best production we have had in years. ILB, we lost Bucannon, and all of our roster'd depth behind him. Minter had to play more, and got exposed. Not really a depth issue when your backups aren't healthy. CB was bad. S was great. Mathieu (a 8 mil per year player) and Branch were hurt but we had Tony Jefferson and DJ Swearinger on the bench. Great depth.

Regarding training camp, that is on Arians. We didn't start hot out of the gate, and that style of training camp did give any outs for Arians. But, this is his first head coaching gig, I'm ok with that.

Undisciplined play and mental errors are on the players, not the coaches. This is not High School football, these are professionals, and they are paid to put in the work so they can do their jobs. The schemes are on the coaches, and for the most part, the schemes were good. The execution is on the players, and the players flubbed that in critical situations which cost us.

All of these things are correctable in an offseason, and I imagine 2017 will see us back in playoff contention.

 

[TJ]

BA lost the team last year because he puts all the onus on the players and very little on himself and the coaches.

.

Many things went wrong last season, but there is no evidence to suggest that Arians "lost the team." If you want to see what it looks like when a coach loses the team, rewatch the 2nd half of the 2012 season.

 

[football karma]

You still fire Amos. Because at this point, 4 years of some of the worst special teams in the NFL, BA has exhausted his leverage.

Unfortunately BA has forced us beyond the "easy" point. The easy and reasonable thing was for BA to fire Amos in the last 2 years. Keim has to stop being friends, and start being a GM. And its BAs fault that Keim has to do that now.

So- if you were the Cardinal GM this offseason, you would have fired Bruce Arians if he refused to replace Amos Jones?

 

[Harry]

And with that being said. We were a handful of special teams plays from another double digit win season.

We are not the Cleveland Browns this is not a hopeless clueless team

The difference between a 250 hitter and a 300 hitter is only 1 more hit a week. Your right that often the difference between the top and the bottom is often apparently small. However it's the ability to avoid those critical mistakes that makes a team great. In the end last year's team was ordinary.

 

[daves]

My worry is that when BA retires Keim will acquiesce to BA's wishes and promotes Harold Goodwin or James Bettcher to HC. While I think they are good assistants, neither one has the gravitas of a bona fide NFL HC.

Is that the coaching version of moxie?

... dbs

 

[RINGLESS]

If you hate coach-speak, you're really really gonna hate GM-speak when it comes to releasing/retaining coaches.

No way any GM in his right mind is going to air personnel dirty laundary in public.

*Unless you are part of the 49ers organization