Bad Bad Levi Brown...

[kerouac9]

So you'd rather sacrifice strengthing the OL for ANOTHER RB??

No, but that's what happens when you depend on high draft picks to fill holes on the roster.

 

[Dback Jon]

No, but that's what happens when you depend on high draft picks to fill holes on the roster.

So you would always want to use a high draft pick for a position you are strong at? You need to send a memo to all the teams, because most draft for need.

 

[kerouac9]

So you would always want to use a high draft pick for a position you are strong at? You need to send a memo to all the teams, because most draft for need.

Most don't draft in the Top 10 for 9 of 10 seasons, either.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Most don't draft in the Top 10 for 9 of 10 seasons, either.

Best point made yet.


One of the things about the NFL is the rich get richer.

When you win you get quality draft picks at a better price, and more FA want to come to your team.

It is win win win.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm with K9 on this. If we keep and Davis and we buy the spin that Gandy or Ross are starting caliber tackles then we wouldn't have had to draft Brown. We could've selected a guy like Laron Landry and,after supposedly improving the OL through free agency, improved the defensive side of the ball as well by teaming Landry and Wilson together at the safet position. I'm not bashing the Brown pick but the logic used to draft him was flawed, at best. Maybe he was at the top of the Cards list but i have a pretty good idea that,if Davis was still on the team, that wouldn't have been the case. I could be wrong but i doubt it .

 

[JeffGollin]

In other words, LD wasn't even the third best at his position in his conference.

One of the things we're missing with regard to LD are the reports that he didn't want to be here - regardless of compensation.

I've never heard anything to indicate that there were any internal problems between Big and the coaches, but you can't dismiss the possibility. But the one thing I did hear was that he missed his home state of Texas and wanted to go back there.

You can interpret this to mean that, while Leonard had some good years here (including his Pro Bowl alternate year), his heart really wasn't in it this past season - one leg was already out the door. I believe this.

Rather than spend a lot of time second guessing and beating ourselves up over this, it was time for the Cardinals to move on.

Looking forward, we had an offensive line which (a) started to look respectable during the second half of the season, (b) added a center and versatile grinder at T/G and (c) was missing 345 lbs of beef at one of the starting tackle positions.

True, there were other position priorities (including a glaring thin-ness at WLB) but when you looked at both the Value Board and the 120 Board, you could argue that 2 of the top 5 - 10 players happened to be at the tackle position.

Although Landry or Willis might have been worthwhile options, in terms of "players who could best help our team", the case could be made that Levi Brown (as would have Thomas - if he had dropped to us) represented the best available pick for us at #5.

Note - I always promise myself that, at the end of each draft, I'll rewatch all the footage I've recorded on Senior Bowl week, the Combine and the various all star games. Then invariably I find that the recordings were inadvertantly deleted or someone recorded over my game tapes. Not this year, though. I've been watching Senior Bowl and draft footage (so far mainly of Brown and Buster Davis) and the more I see of Levi, the better I feel.

As Satchel Paige once said: "Don't look back..." Forget about the woulda-couldas and let's focus on "where do we go from here."

 

[dreamcastrocks]

One of the things we're missing with regard to LD are the reports that he didn't want to be here - regardless of compensation.

I've never heard anything to indicate that there were any internal problems between Big and the coaches, but you can't dismiss the possibility. But the one thing I did hear was that he missed his home state of Texas and wanted to go back there.

You can interpret this to mean that, while Leonard had some good years here (including his Pro Bowl alternate year), his heart really wasn't in it this past season - one leg was already out the door. I believe this.

Rather than spend a lot of time second guessing and beating ourselves up over this, it was time for the Cardinals to move on.

Looking forward, we had an offensive line which (a) started to look respectable during the second half of the season, (b) added a center and versatile grinder at T/G and (c) was missing 345 lbs of beef at one of the starting tackle positions.

True, there were other position priorities (including a glaring thin-ness at WLB) but when you looked at both the Value Board and the 120 Board, you could argue that 2 of the top 5 - 10 players happened to be at the tackle position.

Although Landry or Willis might have been worthwhile options, in terms of "players who could best help our team", the case could be made that Levi Brown (as would have Thomas - if he had dropped to us) represented the best available pick for us at #5.

Note - I always promise myself that, at the end of each draft, I'll rewatch all the footage I've recorded on Senior Bowl week, the Combine and the various all star games. Then invariably I find that the recordings were inadvertantly deleted or someone recorded over my game tapes. Not this year, though. I've been watching Senior Bowl and draft footage (so far mainly of Brown and Buster Davis) and the more I see of Levi, the better I feel.

As Satchel Paige once said: "Don't look back..." Forget about the woulda-couldas and let's focus on "where do we go from here."

Who cares if he didn't want to be here.

Randy Moss didn't want to be in Oakland anymore. They didn't cut him, they traded him for a 4th round pick.

(I know that LD was a FA, please don't bring that up)

 

[Mulli]

Who cares if he didn't want to be here.

Randy Moss didn't want to be in Oakland anymore. They didn't cut him, they traded him for a 4th round pick.

Worked out so well for the Raiders, having them on the team.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Worked out so well for the Raiders, having them on the team.

That isn't my point. You could argue how well LD worked for us.

The point is that they recognized that he had some value, and didn't allow him to walk away with nothing. It's that simple.

 

[Mulli]

That isn't my point. You could argue how well LD worked for us.

The point is that they recognized that he had some value, and didn't allow him to walk away with nothing. It's that simple.

So a fourth for a guy like Randy Moss. I would think there is a lot more demand for Moss than Big. Just saying.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So a fourth for a guy like Randy Moss. I would think there is a lot more demand for Moss than Big. Just saying.

Not when the FA market talent pool for OT's was so low. There were teams that were openly interested in LD. The demand was there.

 

[Mulli]

Not when the FA market talent pool for OT's was so low. There were teams that were openly interested in LD. The demand was there.

You are just mad about my "bass" (not fish) comments.

 

[DKCards]

Let me start this off by saying I think LD was the best OL on this team. But given that someone with the team did not want him here anymore. We can all speculate if it was Whis, Grimm, Graves or the Bidwills or all of them but the decision was made to let him go. In defense of the FO they waited until Whis and Grimm were involved before making the final call.

Some have said we should have gotten something in return for him but it is not that cut and dry. If they put the franchise tag on him he could have signed it at anytime making them responsible for that $12 mil+. Trading him after he signs would not been a given considering this. I am not saying it could not be done but it seems to me that it was a $12 mil gamble they were not willing to take. And I think you could have forgotten about Levi Brown if LD was franchised leaving them with the same problem next year. If they signed him to a long term deal (and we will never know if he would of even signed), trades also get complicated because any bonuses would have to count against this years cap. I know they had plenty of cap space but you still don’t want to have dead cap money being used. And again if they couldn’t find a trading partner they would be stuck with a player they didn’t want. Again a gamble they did not want to take. Bottom line is the people that talked to him directly, had the most film, the most knowledge of his attitude and work habits didn’t want him on the team.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You are just mad about my "bass" (not fish) comments.

No, I am mad that there are people here that are willing to let talent go without any compensation. I am also mad that this organization doesn't understand it either.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Let me start this off by saying I think LD was the best OL on this team. But given that someone with the team did not want him here anymore. We can all speculate if it was Whis, Grimm, Graves or the Bidwills or all of them but the decision was made to let him go. In defense of the FO they waited until Whis and Grimm were involved before making the final call.

Some have said we should have gotten something in return for him but it is not that cut and dry. If they put the franchise tag on him he could have signed it at anytime making them responsible for that $12 mil+. Trading him after he signs would not been a given considering this. I am not saying it could not be done but it seems to me that it was a $12 mil gamble they were not willing to take. And I think you could have forgotten about Levi Brown if LD was franchised leaving them with the same problem next year. If they signed him to a long term deal (and we will never know if he would of even signed), trades also get complicated because any bonuses would have to count against this years cap. I know they had plenty of cap space but you still don’t want to have dead cap money being used. And again if they couldn’t find a trading partner they would be stuck with a player they didn’t want. Again a gamble they did not want to take. Bottom line is the people that talked to him directly, had the most film, the most knowledge of his attitude and work habits didn’t want him on the team.

If LD "truly" did not want to be here, as others have claimed, he wouldn't have signed the tag.

I understand the risk/reward of signing LD, but as you said, he was our best lineman. I don't see how letting him go, makes our line better. If anything, we should have made no changes to the line, because the line was starting to gel in the 2nd half of the season, and keeping the line intact should have improved the line even more.

Almost no one signs the franchise tag right away as well. Look at the other players that were franchised this year, none of them has signed the tag yet, and usually do not, until the start of training camp/preseason.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not when the FA market talent pool for OT's was so low. There were teams that were openly interested in LD. The demand was there.

But Randy Moss wasn't a free agent like Big was going to be. Teams won't trade anything for an impending free agent, nothing of value at least.

I love all the inevitable whining that goes on every time we lose a "top free agent".

 

[Mulli]

But Randy Moss wasn't a free agent like Big was going to be. Teams won't trade anything for an impending free agent, nothing of value at least.

I love all the inevitable whining that goes on every time we lose a "top free agent".

 

[dreamcastrocks]

But Randy Moss wasn't a free agent like Big was going to be. Teams won't trade anything for an impending free agent, nothing of value at least.

I love all the inevitable whining that goes on every time we lose a "top free agent".

Who cares if he didn't want to be here.

Randy Moss didn't want to be in Oakland anymore. They didn't cut him, they traded him for a 4th round pick.

(I know that LD was a FA, please don't bring that up)

See above.

Once you franchise someone, they are no longer a free agent. I thought that was pretty common knowledge.

 

[Mulli]

See above.

Once you franchise someone, they are no longer a free agent. I thought that was pretty common knowledge.

DCR, you going to revisit the Bryant Pace and Kendall issues today as well. Do you think the Cards should have got a new stadium?

 

[Dback Jon]

But Randy Moss wasn't a free agent like Big was going to be. Teams won't trade anything for an impending free agent, nothing of value at least.

I love all the inevitable whining that goes on every time we lose a "top free agent".

KRANG!! Good to hear from ya!!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

DCR, you going to revisit the Bryant Pace and Kendall issues today as well. Do you think the Cards should have got a new stadium?

Not unless you bring them up.

No problem with the trade Bryant/Pace trade, we just drafted the wrong players.

Kendall was eh, but you should at least shop a player around to see if he has trade value before cutting.

I voted for the new stadium and haven't looked back.

 

[Duckjake]

DCR, you going to revisit the Bryant Pace and Kendall issues today as well. Do you think the Cards should have got a new stadium?

Hmmm. Same mistakes over and over. Looks like somebody needs to revisit the issues so maybe they'll stop repeating them.

 

[Mulli]

Hmmm. Same mistakes over and over. Looks like somebody needs to revisit the issues so maybe they'll stop repeating them.

Getting a stadium was a mistake. You are right those that have some control over the mistakes should revisit them.

 

[Duckjake]

Getting a stadium was a mistake. You are right those that have some control over the mistakes should revisit them.

Obviously YOU have never had to rent a car at the Phoenix airport.

 

[Mulli]

Obviously YOU have never had to rent a car at the Phoenix airport.

I have. Small price to pay to get the Cards out of the Stadium of the Metal Benches.