BA's Injury Management

[dreamcastrocks]

Only issue I had was playing David Johnson on the last game of the season that meant nothing. Then David Johnson looked like his knee was tore in half for a game that was meaningless.

David Johnson had a chance to break an NFL record. That is far from meaningless.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have no issue with playing starters in any real game. You play to win the game. Sometimes the starters can refuse to come out even when asked. I don't blame them.

He had the starters in up 40-17 with 2 minutes left in the game. That's the beef.

I had a boss who threatened to fire the employees all the time. Everybody hated her. I'm also grtting tired of the threatening comments from BA. I'm sure the players are too, at least some of them.

Yeah... that stuff only works when you're winning.

 

[cardpa]

in case anyone wants to see it...

https://www.runnersworld.com/stretching/does-stretching-prevent-injuries

Thanks for this Oaken, I will starting this kind of stretching with my soccer team come Spring. I am always open to new ways of doing things that will make my players better.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

andre ellington admitted he was avoiding contact because he didn't want to get injured AGAIN...not because he was injured at the time... huge difference there.

Its a 16 game season, played by top athletes that can be up to 300lbs of solid, trained muscle.

It would be madness not to pick and choose where to be physical and when to live to see the next play.

Andre Ellington continuing to get injured would not only not help the team, but would eventually lead to Ellington not having a job. Yet, in Ellington's case he went over board with his conservative tendency and now he may lose his job for not being physical enough. There is a fine line between playing stupid and getting hurt, and playing too conservative and losing your job for lack of production.

It is why it is the NFL, and why the game is so hard, and why the players that are great, learn all the nuances of the game. Again, best example is Larry Fitzgerald cutting back and creating the play that is now known as the hail Larry.

You have to be smart. No player helps a team when they are hurt. There will never be a time were 1 extra yard is worth a turnover, or worse an injury. I used to be completely 180 degrees on this topic until I saw the results.

1 out of every 1000 times a guy will break 3 tackles and go for a touchdown, the other 999 times there is either a turnover or an injury.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I had a boss who threatened to fire the employees all the time. Everybody hated her. I'm also grtting tired of the threatening comments from BA. I'm sure the players are too, at least some of them.

Are we seriously complaining that the football coach for a professional football team is wrong for calling our wide receivers when they do not catch the ball or run the right assignments ?

So are we saying we would be happier to see our wide receivers dropping passes and running the wrong route, and our coach is patting them on the back and giving them ice cream at the end of practice ?

Come on now.

Job of a boss is to do his job, and not be everyone's friends. I am a manager. Hate me all you want, I could care less, just get the damn job done.

Now to be fair, if your ex-boss used to make the threat but never fire anyone, that is stupid and tired.

But Arians has sent plenty of players on their way, and sometimes people get angry when he is too lenient on players, so it is a bit of a catch-22.

 

[blindseyed]

I don't think BA reads any of these threads and could care less lol

 

[oaken1]

I had a boss who threatened to fire the employees all the time. Everybody hated her. I'm also grtting tired of the threatening comments from BA. I'm sure the players are too, at least some of them.

were you being paid millions a year to perform at an elite level??

these guys are thoroughbreds...and if a horse cant race then he is put out to pasture.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Are we seriously complaining that the football coach for a professional football team is wrong for calling our wide receivers when they do not catch the ball or run the right assignments ?

So are we saying we would be happier to see our wide receivers dropping passes and running the wrong route, and our coach is patting them on the back and giving them ice cream at the end of practice ?

Come on now.

Job of a boss is to do his job, and not be everyone's friends. I am a manager. Hate me all you want, I could care less, just get the damn job done.

Now to be fair, if your ex-boss used to make the threat but never fire anyone, that is stupid and tired.

But Arians has sent plenty of players on their way, and sometimes people get angry when he is too lenient on players, so it is a bit of a catch-22.

Exactly, and he is hardly threatening guys if their play is threatening to derail the team for a run at the title. Some people here are acting like Arians is coaching little five year olds who might get their feelings hurt... I bet you most who are complaining are more upset than the actual guys who have been called out because they are professionals and also know that Arians wants them to succeed too

 

[RON_IN_OC]

It seems weird we still talk about the stretching.

BA on stretching is "You should stretch before practice so we can practice" not "don't bother stretching, just show up". For someone reason, everyone thinks it is the latter.

When I show up to work I am expected to be ready. We don't have team coffee sessions to wake everyone up, we are expected to already be awake and ready to work.

This! Stretching before is being prepared to work. BA's philosophy is that when you punch the clock, you are ready to go...not just arriving and still need to get ready. Nothing at all wrong with that mentality. Not at all unlike most companies in the workforce.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I would like to add this because it is related to injuries. Some people seem to think that a team is going to approach injuries the same in preseason as they would in regular season... meaning, there are probably guys on the team this week who would be playing if the games counted but our team is not going to risk making an injury significant in a game that does not count

 

[Chopper0080]

In the NFL, it isn't about staying healthy, it is about playing through pain. After week three, all of the players are nicked up. What separates players is the ability to recover and play through the lingering pain. John Brown struggles with this and means he will not likely have a long career as his game is about speed.

 

[kerouac9]

We get it Mitch. You hate BA.

I don't think we have any more injuries than most teams.

BA is right, if you can't run long enough you get booted off the team. It means your talent is meaningless.

Cards were 19th in Adjusted Games Lost last year.

 

[Catfish]

Hey Mitch-----I fully understand the reasons why you have concern for all those incidents that you listed with asterisks to lead into this discussion. I would like to talk just a bit about some not so obvious reasons for some of those 'call-outs' however.

First, I won't argue much against your pointing out the lack of organized stretching and calisthenics. I too, often wonder if that is a wise choice on BA's part, but am not ready to proclaim that he is wrong about that. I will point out
however, that despite the fact that SK has concentrated on drafting self starters, and team captains, many of these 'team leaders' were/are lacking when it comes to actual performance when relying on their OWN initiative to do the necessary work. This can be seen in players such as Michael Floyd, who needed to be pushed constantly to do what
he should have been doing on his own; with Patrick Peterson, whose obvious lack of self will is on display virtually every game despite the fact that he has 'other worldly' talent. It was even shown by Calais Campbell, who, despite
being called upon to be the defensive team leader, often played soft, and despite his massive size and abilities, he
regularly got to the ball carrier, only to fail to wrap up his arm tackles, thus allowing the player to escape his grasp. He even needed to be prodded to be vocal in practices and games as his quiet manner was NOT conducive to be the fiery and vocal leader and motivator that his status on the team demanded. That is why I would dispute your reasoning that BA is soft on guys like Karlos Dansby. Dansby's true worth on this team is being that vocal and fiery leader that Campbell NEVER was. I am certain that BA knows that Dansby now lacks the physical part of his game regimen, but he also knows that Karlos IS that fiery defensive leader, (on the field and in the locker room), that Campbell never was. He knows that Dansby has the respect of ALL the other players on the team because of his continuous leadership qualities over the years. I can easily understand BA not including Dansby like he does those players whose lazy work ethic, and complacency have become a pox on this team. That was shown constantly last season when BA was too sick to be able to really ride herd on this roster, and their lackluster play came to the forefront game after game.

In the case of calling out Chad Williams, BA did say that he most likely won't be able to contribute until after Thanksgiving, (other than on Special Teams). That, to me, sounds more like Williams has not yet mastered the play book, more than not being physically ready to perform. Special teams play requires great physicality, and Williams has that already. He is most likely behind the regulars in his knowledge of the playbook however. I just don't see BA lumping him in with the other callouts when his reason is NOT working hard, but merely being new to the system and not being knowledgeable enough to be relied upon at this point in his career.

While I can understand your consternation to a point, it might be prudent to give a little more credence to BA's calling out lackluster players, both (veteran and new), on the roster. We certainly don't want a repeat of last year's debacle. I am one of those who are all for BA bringing out the whip and the sharp tongue to get these guys to do what they have failed to do on their own.

 

[Mitch]

Hey Mitch-----I fully understand the reasons why you have concern for all those incidents that you listed with asterisks to lead into this discussion. I would like to talk just a bit about some not so obvious reasons for some of those 'call-outs' however.

First, I won't argue much against your pointing out the lack of organized stretching and calisthenics. I too, often wonder if that is a wise choice on BA's part, but am not ready to proclaim that he is wrong about that. I will point out
however, that despite the fact that SK has concentrated on drafting self starters, and team captains, many of these 'team leaders' were/are lacking when it comes to actual performance when relying on their OWN initiative to do the necessary work. This can be seen in players such as Michael Floyd, who needed to be pushed constantly to do what
he should have been doing on his own; with Patrick Peterson, whose obvious lack of self will is on display virtually every game despite the fact that he has 'other worldly' talent. It was even shown by Calais Campbell, who, despite
being called upon to be the defensive team leader, often played soft, and despite his massive size and abilities, he
regularly got to the ball carrier, only to fail to wrap up his arm tackles, thus allowing the player to escape his grasp. He even needed to be prodded to be vocal in practices and games as his quiet manner was NOT conducive to be the fiery and vocal leader and motivator that his status on the team demanded. That is why I would dispute your reasoning that BA is soft on guys like Karlos Dansby. Dansby's true worth on this team is being that vocal and fiery leader that Campbell NEVER was. I am certain that BA knows that Dansby now lacks the physical part of his game regimen, but he also knows that Karlos IS that fiery defensive leader, (on the field and in the locker room), that Campbell never was. He knows that Dansby has the respect of ALL the other players on the team because of his continuous leadership qualities over the years. I can easily understand BA not including Dansby like he does those players whose lazy work ethic, and complacency have become a pox on this team. That was shown constantly last season when BA was too sick to be able to really ride herd on this roster, and their lackluster play came to the forefront game after game.

In the case of calling out Chad Williams, BA did say that he most likely won't be able to contribute until after Thanksgiving, (other than on Special Teams). That, to me, sounds more like Williams has not yet mastered the play book, more than not being physically ready to perform. Special teams play requires great physicality, and Williams has that already. He is most likely behind the regulars in his knowledge of the playbook however. I just don't see BA lumping him in with the other callouts when his reason is NOT working hard, but merely being new to the system and not being knowledgeable enough to be relied upon at this point in his career.

While I can understand your consternation to a point, it might be prudent to give a little more credence to BA's calling out lackluster players, both (veteran and new), on the roster. We certainly don't want a repeat of last year's debacle. I am one of those who are all for BA bringing out the whip and the sharp tongue to get these guys to do what they have failed to do on their own.

Catfish, thank you for such an insightful and carefully articulated response.

As you say the warmups and calisthenics might be a moot point...but as a player and as a coach I always saw the value in them as not just an individual mental and physical preparation, but as a 10 minute full team activity. Like in basketball, pretty much every player can make 99 out of 100 layups, so why have layup lines? It's to create a sweat and a rhythm and a vibe, individually and as a team.

The irony about Calais Campbell is that he was the most lackluster he ever was, imo, when the team was 13-3...and he was his most aggressive and productive he ever was when the team was 7-8-1, while he was successfully playing for a contract. I agree with you, I did not see him as a credible leader and I think this is one reason why he won't ever be considered for the Cardinals Ring of Fame. I watched CC a couple nights ago (Jaguars) and he is playing out of position as a wide side of the field 43 DE. He looked sluggish and as was always the case with the Cardinals his rush off the edge is slow and awkward. His one good play came on a loop stunt where he created a QB hurry...other than that, the Jaguar fans must have been wondering why Campbell commanded so much money in free agency, especially at his age.

Your characterization of Dansby was as spot-on as I have read, heard and seen. He is a fiery, stir the drink kind of vocal leader and from time to time he flashes big-play ability, but in his regular duties as an ILB, he is not particularly sudden and physical at the point of attack. I was very impressed with Josh Bynes. He made quick reads and got after the RB in a hurry and showed some pop in his finishes. Plus he was pretty solid in coverage.

As for Chad Williams, I find it very odd that coming off a practice where BA said he now only has 2 bona fide NFL caliber WRs, that he would so readily dismiss Williams' chances until Thanksgiving. Smoke played as a rookie, from the get-go. Sure, he made some mistakes, but he made a strong impact.

I want to make one thing very clear, I do not have any problem with BA calling out players on the practice field or in their so-called "rooms." My concern is how BA continues to use the media to call players out...which I believe can backfire on BA in a hurry, and which I also believe is poor form. That's the mark of a desperate coach.

I watched the Seahawks last night and everything they do, they do fast and hard and with such a kid-like love for the game. While, like everyone else, I can't stand Pete Carroll, but for this reason...he gets his players jacked up and playing with such sustained confidence. And it's clear that his teams love playing the game.

When I watch the Cardinals these days what I don't see is a team that rarely ever lets it loose...they are wound up so tightly and often look like they are playing acutely afraid of making mistakes...which of course, leads to mistakes and mistakes upon mistakes. Some blame this on the players...BA does. Some blame it on the coaches...BA doesn't. What do you and everyone else think?

 

[Catfish]

Mitch-----your points are well taken. I would wholeheartedly agree that coaching/media callout can, (and does), lead to mistakes just because players are thinking so much about playing error free that they CAN'T let it free and just play for the love of playing. That is the ideal situation, but far too many of these guys don't love the work. They have seen from the example set by leaders such as PP, Campbell, and Floyd that you can play lazy and lackluster and still be a starter. In my opinion that has to change, and BA is the natural one to bring about that change. Now it remains
to be seen if his crackdown works or backfires. Far too often, player friendly coaches don't know how to crack down without upsetting the apple cart because it was never on their radar to do so. What do you think coach?????

 

[Shaggy]

I had a boss who threatened to fire the employees all the time. Everybody hated her. I'm also grtting tired of the threatening comments from BA. I'm sure the players are too, at least some of them.

Office work area and football work area are nowhere near similar. These players have been yelled at their entire football careers.

 

[daves]

Patrick Peterson, whose obvious lack of self will is on display virtually every game

Huh?!?
...dave

 

[football karma]

I was a trainer back in the 80's and always a big fan of stretching... however more current scientific evidence says that stretching does not prevent injuries,...it has the same effect of any other type of muscle warming activity...

This is it

Stretching is one of those things that you think ought to be the right thing to do, but has no effect