Best Point Guards of All Time

[3rdside]

http://newarena.com/nba/ranking-the-top-25-pgs-of-all-time/19/?amxt=hb_fb_mob


Irving at 15 already, no way is Chris Paul higher than Nash, and no.1 is....if you know slinslin you'll know he'll hate reading this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Phrazbit]

John Wall is waaaaaay better than Kyrie Irving. What a terrible ranking.

 

[Mainstreet]

It would have been nice if they had done a career stat line for each player.

I agree Magic should be ranked #1.

Many of the other player rankings are subjective.

Here is a link to the top 10 point guard list by ESPN with stats which provides a baseline.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

 

[GatorAZ]

http://newarena.com/nba/ranking-the-top-25-pgs-of-all-time/19/?amxt=hb_fb_mob


Irving at 15 already, no way is Chris Paul higher than Nash, and no.1 is....if you know slinslin you'll know he'll hate reading this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe it's just my phone but I can only see #1.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe it's just my phone but I can only see #1.

You have to scroll down and the press "prior" or "previous" as it was supposed to be a countdown to #1 but the link takes you to the final page.

KJ at 21 is an abomination behind some of those guys.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You have to scroll down and the press "prior" or "previous" as it was supposed to be a countdown to #1 but the link takes you to the final page.

KJ at 21 is an abomination behind some of those guys.

Yeah ridiculous. I would put KJ over Kyrie easily.

Mark Jackson????

 

[Raze]

A list like this just goes to show that just because you CAN post a top 25 list doesn't mean you're intelligent enough to. Also, the term "point guard" should be qualified. Just because you were the shortest guy on the court doesn't mean you were a PG.

I would qualify PG as being a guy that:

A. got everyone involved and initiated the offense,
B. was the primary ball handler,
C. passed to teammates in the flow of O (drive and kick, pick and roll, ran the fast break, drive the lane and dish...)
D. Bonus points to guys who actually played D (Sorry Nash and Steph)
E. Got more than 7 assists per game. No way can a guy be considered one of the greatest PGs of all time and not AT LEAST get 7 assists. (Looking at you Parker)

1/2. Magic and Oscar should go 1/2 on any legitimate list.

3. Personally I think Isiah Thomas has to be 3. Not only did he average 9.3 apg on a limited offensive team, he also averaged 19 ppg in a hand check era. Let's also not forget his 2 rings.

4. Chris Paul. Dude flat out plays D and gets everyone involved. His numbers are amazing. (10 times he was over 2.0 spg. 6 times above 10.0 apg. Compare that to The Glove who only was above 2.0 spg 8 times and NEVER got above 10.0 apg. Nash cleared 10.0 apg 7 times and never sniffed 2.0 spg)

5. Steve Nash. Preaching to the choir here. Sure, his D was lousy. But he should be considered the best pure offensive PG of ALL TIME. He dominated in EVERY statistical category on Offense. That moves him up any list.

Stockton, Kidd, and Gary Payton aren't far behind. Cousy HAS to be top 10, although lags in cross generational comparisons. It's really tough to compare pre 80's PGs to current ones.

Putting Steph Curry or Tony Parker in the top 10 is an insult to the list.

 

[GatorAZ]

A list like this just goes to show that just because you CAN post a top 25 list doesn't mean you're intelligent enough to. Also, the term "point guard" should be qualified. Just because you were the shortest guy on the court doesn't mean you were a PG.

I would qualify PG as being a guy that:

A. got everyone involved and initiated the offense,
B. was the primary ball handler,
C. passed to teammates in the flow of O (drive and kick, pick and roll, ran the fast break, drive the lane and dish...)
D. Bonus points to guys who actually played D (Sorry Nash and Steph)
E. Got more than 7 assists per game. No way can a guy be considered one of the greatest PGs of all time and not AT LEAST get 7 assists. (Looking at you Parker)

1/2. Magic and Oscar should go 1/2 on any legitimate list.

3. Personally I think Isiah Thomas has to be 3. Not only did he average 9.3 apg on a limited offensive team, he also averaged 19 ppg in a hand check era. Let's also not forget his 2 rings.

4. Chris Paul. Dude flat out plays D and gets everyone involved. His numbers are amazing. (10 times he was over 2.0 spg. 6 times above 10.0 apg. Compare that to The Glove who only was above 2.0 spg 8 times and NEVER got above 10.0 apg. Nash cleared 10.0 apg 7 times and never sniffed 2.0 spg)

5. Steve Nash. Preaching to the choir here. Sure, his D was lousy. But he should be considered the best pure offensive PG of ALL TIME. He dominated in EVERY statistical category on Offense. That moves him up any list.

Stockton, Kidd, and Gary Payton aren't far behind. Cousy HAS to be top 10, although lags in cross generational comparisons. It's really tough to compare pre 80's PGs to current ones.

Putting Steph Curry or Tony Parker in the top 10 is an insult to the list.

So Chris Paul is top-5 but Steph isn't top-10? Things that don't make sense for $1,000 Alex.

If you're going to make a big deal of CP3's defense then you should have Stockton over Nash.

 

[Phrazbit]

I didn't notice Tony Parker. Him in the top 10 is a joke. IMO he was lucky to be along for the ride. Iffy shooter, has never been much of a passer, mixed bag defensively. If he'd been on say... the Bucks instead of the Spurs he'd be viewed as a poor man's Tim Hardaway. Really good at penetration, not much else.

 

[Raze]

So Chris Paul is top-5 but Steph isn't top-10? Things that don't make sense for $1,000 Alex.

If you're going to make a big deal of CP3's defense then you should have Stockton over Nash.

I may or may not be a bit of a homer on Nash. I have Stockton right behind him. Although you won't here a strong argument from me over having Stockton above Nash at #5. Absolutely no way are either over Paul.

I would make a big deal of CP3's defense, apg, A/TO ratio, ppg, FG%, FT%, spg, and rpg. He's one of the best all around PG's of all time and has a COMPLETE game. Where's the weakness in his game? I guess 3pt FG%. But he's improved on that in his last 3 years. (.411 last year) Nash didn't have a complete game because of D. Steph doesn't have a complete game because of D and Assists. And c'mon, the main ingredient to any true PG has to be assists. It's pretty much THE stat that separates PGs from everyone else.

Just to compare Steph a bit with Paul:

Steph cleared 7.0 apg 2 times in 8 years.
Paul has been over 8.9 apg for 11 straight years.

Steph's A/TO is a paltry 2:1.
Paul's is 4:1.

Steph is a phenomenal shooter. Probably the best I've ever seen. But that doesn't make him a great PG. He's marginal at passing for a PG and poor at individual D. He doesn't clear Cousy, Payton, Kidd, or Stockton. No way.

The harder comparisons come with Jerry West, Tiny Archibald, and Walt Frazier.

And just to be clear. I'm a KJ guy. He was the reason I fell madly in love with the Suns. I consider him the most underrated PG of all time (mostly due to injuries). But I don't put him in the top 10 either. (no matter how much that pains me to say)

 

[3rdside]

http://newarena.com/nba/ranking-the-top-25-pgs-of-all-time/19/?amxt=hb_fb_mob


Irving at 15 already, no way is Chris Paul higher than Nash, and no.1 is....if you know slinslin you'll know he'll hate reading this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Done the research (checked out stats..) and I'd probably have to conclude that I'm biased towards Steve Nash - didn't realise Paul is so statistically strong and his defence probably seals the deal.

Nash in his prime - with d'Antoni - was outstanding but it was 'only' a 7 year stretch whereas Paul has been statistically outstanding for most of his 12 years.

I'd guess and say they've had similar team success.

If only we could see Paul on an MDA team for comparison

 

[3rdside]

A list like this just goes to show that just because you CAN post a top 25 list doesn't mean you're intelligent enough to. Also, the term "point guard" should be qualified. Just because you were the shortest guy on the court doesn't mean you were a PG.

I would qualify PG as being a guy that:

A. got everyone involved and initiated the offense,
B. was the primary ball handler,
C. passed to teammates in the flow of O (drive and kick, pick and roll, ran the fast break, drive the lane and dish...)
D. Bonus points to guys who actually played D (Sorry Nash and Steph)
E. Got more than 7 assists per game. No way can a guy be considered one of the greatest PGs of all time and not AT LEAST get 7 assists. (Looking at you Parker)

1/2. Magic and Oscar should go 1/2 on any legitimate list.

3. Personally I think Isiah Thomas has to be 3. Not only did he average 9.3 apg on a limited offensive team, he also averaged 19 ppg in a hand check era. Let's also not forget his 2 rings.

4. Chris Paul. Dude flat out plays D and gets everyone involved. His numbers are amazing. (10 times he was over 2.0 spg. 6 times above 10.0 apg. Compare that to The Glove who only was above 2.0 spg 8 times and NEVER got above 10.0 apg. Nash cleared 10.0 apg 7 times and never sniffed 2.0 spg)

5. Steve Nash. Preaching to the choir here. Sure, his D was lousy. But he should be considered the best pure offensive PG of ALL TIME. He dominated in EVERY statistical category on Offense. That moves him up any list.

Stockton, Kidd, and Gary Payton aren't far behind. Cousy HAS to be top 10, although lags in cross generational comparisons. It's really tough to compare pre 80's PGs to current ones.

Putting Steph Curry or Tony Parker in the top 10 is an insult to the list.

I'm starting to believe there's a huge d'Antoni factor in all of this - was he really the best pure offensive point guard or was he just a very good player for the system at the time? Sure you can't deny his shooting %'s but Steph's are better - and other PG %'s are comparable - and even Harden averages > 10 assists with MDA.

Was Steve Nash just the beneficiary of a great system?

 

[3rdside]

I may or may not be a bit of a homer on Nash. I have Stockton right behind him. Although you won't here a strong argument from me over having Stockton above Nash at #5. Absolutely no way are either over Paul.

I would make a big deal of CP3's defense, apg, A/TO ratio, ppg, FG%, FT%, spg, and rpg. He's one of the best all around PG's of all time and has a COMPLETE game. Where's the weakness in his game? I guess 3pt FG%. But he's improved on that in his last 3 years. (.411 last year) Nash didn't have a complete game because of D. Steph doesn't have a complete game because of D and Assists. And c'mon, the main ingredient to any true PG has to be assists. It's pretty much THE stat that separates PGs from everyone else.

Just to compare Steph a bit with Paul:

Steph cleared 7.0 apg 2 times in 8 years.
Paul has been over 8.9 apg for 11 straight years.

Steph's A/TO is a paltry 2:1.
Paul's is 4:1.

Steph is a phenomenal shooter. Probably the best I've ever seen. But that doesn't make him a great PG. He's marginal at passing for a PG and poor at individual D. He doesn't clear Cousy, Payton, Kidd, or Stockton. No way.

The harder comparisons come with Jerry West, Tiny Archibald, and Walt Frazier.

And just to be clear. I'm a KJ guy. He was the reason I fell madly in love with the Suns. I consider him the most underrated PG of all time (mostly due to injuries). But I don't put him in the top 10 either. (no matter how much that pains me to say)

A complete game is one that wins you the league, doesn't matter how you do it. I'm all for pass first point guards because they make the game more enjoyable to watch and 'make team mates better' - and defence is great too - but really, winning trumps everything. And you can't say the GSW's are ugly to watch.

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe it's just my phone but I can only see #1.

Here is a link to the list from the start...

http://newarena.com/nba/ranking-the-top-25-pgs-of-all-time/01/?amxt=hb_fb_mob

Here is their list though, without the info or opinions they used for each persons placement, in bold are the active players and italicized are the players who played for the Suns.

25 - James Harden
24 - Andre Miller
23 - John Wall
22 - Rod Strickland
21 - KJ
20 - Chauncey Billups
19 - Rajón Rondo
18 - Lenny Wilkens
17 - Mark Jackson
16 - Dennis Johnson
15 - Kyrie Irving
14 - Tony Parker
13 - Russell Westbrook
12 - Gary Payton
11 - Tiny Archibald
10 - Clyde Frazier
09 - Steve Nash
08 - Chris Paul
07 - Jason Kidd
06 - Bob Cousy
05 - Isiah Thomas
04 - Steph Curry
03 - John Stockton
02 - Oscar Robertson
01 - Magic Johnson

 

[oaken1]

I may or may not be a bit of a homer on Nash. I have Stockton right behind him. Although you won't here a strong argument from me over having Stockton above Nash at #5. Absolutely no way are either over Paul.

I would make a big deal of CP3's defense, apg, A/TO ratio, ppg, FG%, FT%, spg, and rpg. He's one of the best all around PG's of all time and has a COMPLETE game. Where's the weakness in his game? I guess 3pt FG%. But he's improved on that in his last 3 years. (.411 last year) Nash didn't have a complete game because of D. Steph doesn't have a complete game because of D and Assists. And c'mon, the main ingredient to any true PG has to be assists. It's pretty much THE stat that separates PGs from everyone else.

Just to compare Steph a bit with Paul:

Steph cleared 7.0 apg 2 times in 8 years.
Paul has been over 8.9 apg for 11 straight years.

Steph's A/TO is a paltry 2:1.
Paul's is 4:1.

Steph is a phenomenal shooter. Probably the best I've ever seen. But that doesn't make him a great PG. He's marginal at passing for a PG and poor at individual D. He doesn't clear Cousy, Payton, Kidd, or Stockton. No way.

The harder comparisons come with Jerry West, Tiny Archibald, and Walt Frazier.

And just to be clear. I'm a KJ guy. He was the reason I fell madly in love with the Suns. I consider him the most underrated PG of all time (mostly due to injuries). But I don't put him in the top 10 either. (no matter how much that pains me to say)

If I were building a team...Magic would be my first choice... but KJ would be my second. Dude was a competitor and had an extra gear when the chips were down which most of the guys on that list didn't/don't have.
oh yeah...and he posterized Hakeem

 

[Hoop Head]

Stockton doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. I think he should be #2 on any top PG list. I can understand putting Magic at #1 but Stockton led the Jazz for almost 2 decades as a great defender, good shooter, and best playmaker in the league. Unfortunately he played in the Jordan Era and went ringless but he still helped lead his team to 2 Finals appearances. Malone gets more credit for the Jazz success than Stockton typically while I think it's sort of like a Nash/Amare situation in that Stockton made Malone look like one of the best players in the league instead of just being an player with All-Star talent. Nash got credit from the media and fans when he joined the Suns and Amare improved but since Malone & Stockton played almost their entire careers together and that era was built around dominant bigs, Malone gets more credit.

That top 10 outside of the top 3 is questionable, while I think Steph deserves placement in the top 10 because of the Warriors success I don't think he should be ranked above better PG's like Isiah Thomas, Kidd, or Nash. I'd place above Nash because of the rings but Thomas and Kidd won rings also.

 

[leclerc]

Nash top 10 and KJ top 15. Why the hell do people place Payton ahead of KJ?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nash top 10 and KJ top 15. Why the hell do people place Payton ahead of KJ?

Defense

 

[Errntknght]

Kingdad failed to italicize Dennis Johnson's name... he played for the Suns for two years and trading him away for Rick Robey was the worst trade the Suns ever made. Almost to a man, the fans at the time hated the move and it was soon apparent to everyone they were right. Such was JCs desperation for a good C.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Stockton doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. I think he should be #2 on any top PG list. I can understand putting Magic at #1 but Stockton led the Jazz for almost 2 decades as a great defender, good shooter, and best playmaker in the league. Unfortunately he played in the Jordan Era and went ringless but he still helped lead his team to 2 Finals appearances. Malone gets more credit for the Jazz success than Stockton typically while I think it's sort of like a Nash/Amare situation in that Stockton made Malone look like one of the best players in the league instead of just being an player with All-Star talent. Nash got credit from the media and fans when he joined the Suns and Amare improved but since Malone & Stockton played almost their entire careers together and that era was built around dominant bigs, Malone gets more credit.

That top 10 outside of the top 3 is questionable, while I think Steph deserves placement in the top 10 because of the Warriors success I don't think he should be ranked above better PG's like Isiah Thomas, Kidd, or Nash. I'd place above Nash because of the rings but Thomas and Kidd won rings also.

I would take Steph over Isiah Thomas. I might even place him above Kidd but that one would be close. Kidd had liabilities, especially as a shooter (at least during the Suns years) he would also pass up high percentage shots (at the rim with an open layup) to go for a lower percentage shot from a teammate (and an assist for him).

 

[Raze]

Defense

And durability.

However, KJ was far superior on offense. One of the very few people who got 20ppg and 10apg.

 

[BC867]

Kingdad failed to italicize Dennis Johnson's name... he played for the Suns for two years and trading him away for Rick Robey was the worst trade the Suns ever made. Almost to a man, the fans at the time hated the move and it was soon apparent to everyone they were right. Such was JCs desperation for a good C.

Everything in your post is true. Except for the last sentence. Rick Robey was the Celtic's 3rd string Center. 3rd string! That doesn't deserve the adjective 'good'.

Ironically, Robey became our starting Power Forward. Ironic because with Alvan Adams as our 212 lb. Center, our Power Forward was de facto Center. The first time in a long time the Suns actually had a Center on the floor. 3rd string quality. But a Center.

None of which made us a strong playoff contender.

 

[Errntknght]

The word 'good' described what JC was seeking, not what he got in Robey. So the sentence wasn't wrong...

 

[BC867]

The word 'good' described what JC was seeking, not what he got in Robey. So the sentence wasn't wrong...

If Jerry didn't know that Rick Robey for DJ was not a good trade, it's a reflection on his skills as a GM. It is still the worst trade in Suns history. But then, Jerry was never in the upper echelon of GM's in the NBA. Promoter, yes. Among the top traders, not so. Owner, OK for a small market team.

He never did for the Suns what he learned to do for the D-backs. Reach the promised land.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Jerry didn't know that Rick Robey for DJ was not a good trade, it's a reflection on his skills as a GM. It is still the worst trade in Suns history. But then, Jerry was never in the upper echelon of GM's in the NBA. Promoter, yes. Among the top traders, not so. Owner, OK for a small market team.

He never did for the Suns what he learned to do for the D-backs. Reach the promised land.

Incredibly unfair indictment of jerry.

He was a very good gm. Took a young team from a backwater town with no historical fan base and not a lot of money and consistently had them a good team.

And what he did with dbacks as based on what was possible in baseball verses basketball. He spent like a madman and put the team in great future debt to win the World Series. The same actions were not available in the NBA or I'm certain he would have done the same.