Bettcher and the defense

[football karma]

I thought Bettcher's "real test" was against Cincy, who was pretty much the best offense we'll face all year.

Peterson will most likely be on Cobb. Bethel on Jones. Tony Jeff on Richard Rodgers. Deone on Starks/Lacy is how I think it'll play out.

they may move Peterson around

or -- James Jones perhaps

Cobb operates in the slot a great deal, and Davante Adams hands are often the best coverage of all

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think that another way to say this is that the talent on the defense is outplaying the scheme. Look at the number of times that Badger has come off his assignment to make a play. Alternatively, look at the number of times that Bettcher has "sent the house" on a designed blitz and no one gets through to the passer.

One thing that people have said all season was "Well, Bettcher is still learning how to do his job. He'll be way better at the end of the year." Is that true? He's going to have to scheme his behind off over the next six weeks, because his movable chess piece is gone — and while some still believe that Honey Badger is a liability in coverage, he papered over a lot of holes in zones with his play.

I think Badger's assignment is usually to roam while being a movable chess piece but Bettcher has something very few teams have which allows him to have a movable chess piece... he has a shut down corner in Peterson

 

[cardncubfan]

Jeez, I get up this morning, check ASFN, and the first 2 threads are calling out BA & Bettcher. Bulletin: the Cards are 12-2, kids! Wake up and realize it. That's not Jim Tomsula or Mike Pettine out there roaming the sidelines, giving the same old excuses in their post-game presser. These guys are winning week in and week out, and just laid a 40-burger, on the road, on the east coast (where we NEVER used to win), on a team playing for a playoff spot. Are we THAT spoiled already that we have to second-guess our coaches at this point? Wow.

+1

 

[kerouac9]

I think Badger's assignment is usually to roam while being a movable chess piece but Bettcher has something very few teams have which allows him to have a movable chess piece... he has a shut down corner in Peterson

No — because he's not a safety; he's a corner. This isn't like how Pittsburgh used Polamalu.

Mathieu would usually pretty clearly define who his assignment was (very often man coverage on an interior receiver), and then leave it when the ball was leaving the QBs hand to make a play or close when the ball was in the air.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yep. Let's look at this last game. We were getting shredded--absolutely shredded--by Philly's offense. He went with the game plan that he should have gone against Minny with--he wasn't sending a ton of blitzes, and looked to be hoping that Bradford wouldn't be good enough to beat the coverage. This clearly--CLEARLY--wasn't working. Any adjustments? No, Bettcher kept doing the same damn thing all game long, with almost no adjustments. What changed? Our pass rushers began winning individual battles. In the first half, we weren't getting any pressure from them. In the second half, without a change to scheme, our pass rushers turned it on. Thus the players bailed Bettcher out. They stepped up when it wasn't working and did it themselves. Even then, the defense didn't look good, but did enough in the right moments. We didn't suddenly start getting after Bradford because Bettcher learned and adjusted; we did it because the players stepped up. Bettcher hasn't shown that he can adjust well in-game. He just hasn't, sorry.

And on the 'people are being negative' front--I wouldn't be commenting if people weren't saying what a great job Bettcher is doing when it is CLEARLY not Bettcher who should be getting the credit. Our defense is playing well despite him. I mean, I remember when our defense would get the job done at certain points under Pendy and Davis, and people would want to heap praise on them. It's like, duh! Come on, look past the surface to what's actually going on



Very well said, K9.

I couldn't disagree more with this post. Sounds to me like his players were doing the opposite of "bailing him out" in the 1st half and started actually doing what they are paid to do in the 2nd. Sounds to me like Bettcher just can't win with some of the posters on this board because when the defense plays well it is in spite of Bettcher and when they play poorly it is all his fault. Seems a little ridiculous to me.

 

[Azlen]

I look at the incredible deficiencies we seem to have at LB and am happy that we are doing as well as we are.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Man... Tough crowd.

We are undefeated along with the Panthers, if the offense just has an average day in the two losses.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No — because he's not a safety; he's a corner. This isn't like how Pittsburgh used Polamalu.

Mathieu would usually pretty clearly define who his assignment was (very often man coverage on an interior receiver), and then leave it when the ball was leaving the QBs hand to make a play or close when the ball was in the air.

Splitting hairs aren't we?

 

[Stout]

I couldn't disagree more with this post. Sounds to me like his players were doing the opposite of "bailing him out" in the 1st half and started actually doing what they are paid to do in the 2nd. Sounds to me like Bettcher just can't win with some of the posters on this board because when the defense plays well it is in spite of Bettcher and when they play poorly it is all his fault. Seems a little ridiculous to me.

Oh, he gets a pass for certain things, certainly. Blitzing more than usual to try to generate a pass rush, since we don't have good edge rushers. Granted, he often doesn't know when NOT to blitz, but he gets some leeway there. Whenever DB gets run over by a RB, or Minter fails because he's so slow, etc, that isn't on him either.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

We went from the best DC any of us have ever seen to a first-year guy. We were spoiled. I think the new guy has acquitted himself rather well as he continues to learn on the job. The stats don't lie. If the D is giving up 13.3 ppg, our offense can beat anyone in the NFL.

I couldn't disagree more with this post. Sounds to me like his players were doing the opposite of "bailing him out" in the 1st half and started actually doing what they are paid to do in the 2nd. Sounds to me like Bettcher just can't win with some of the posters on this board because when the defense plays well it is in spite of Bettcher and when they play poorly it is all his fault. Seems a little ridiculous to me.

Yep, it's an amazing dynamic. Top 5 defense, and the #1 defense the last 5 weeks, yet the "DC is terrible" is kind of a head scratcher to me.

maybe a defense like this is the only acceptable one to some and we can hold GB to zero yards:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[kerouac9]

Splitting hairs aren't we?

Not really. Safeties have some scheme versatility to choose their responsibility on a play (if they earn it) — Polamalu was allowed to read the offense and re-define the responsibilities of the players on either side of him based on that read.

Cornerbacks have a responsibility at the outset of the play. Because of the distances and crowd noise, it's difficult to pass off those responsibilities pre-snap because you see an opening. If a cornerback abandons his hook-flat zone, that's a problem for the other 10 guys on the field.

 

[Stout]

Yep, it's an amazing dynamic. Top 5 defense, and the #1 defense the last 5 weeks, yet the "DC is terrible" is kind of a head scratcher to me.

maybe a defense like this is the only acceptable one to some and we can hold GB to zero yards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el5QXV-W5_g

No, the results are awesome--in many games (let's not forget opponents score a lot late)--but the way we get there is worrisome. We won't get away with poor defensive scheming in the playoffs like we do in the regular season.

It's like saying, well, since our sack total is low, we've had perfect pass pro, right? Wrong. Before this week, Palmer was the 2nd-most hit QB in the NFL. I mean, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. This is a great quote for a reason.

 

[TJ]

No, the results are awesome

All that matters.

 

[TJ]

I think every DC we've had has had multiple threads dedicated to their respective shortcomings. I bet the Saints would love to have our defensive "issues."

We've discussed ad nauseum the lack of talent in many key areas on the defensive side of the ball, namely pass rusher and a suitable inside linebacker. Really, the only position in which there's an abundance of talent is the secondary. So which is it? Poor coaching on defense or talent deficiency?

Simply from that perspective, Bettcher has done a fine job in using the pieces he has to create a legit Top-10 defense. It's Keim's job to provide Bettcher with better pieces to work with and stop neglecting obvious glaring needs, such as OLB.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

No, the results are awesome--in many games (let's not forget opponents score a lot late)--but the way we get there is worrisome. We won't get away with poor defensive scheming in the playoffs like we do in the regular season.

It's like saying, well, since our sack total is low, we've had perfect pass pro, right? Wrong. Before this week, Palmer was the 2nd-most hit QB in the NFL. I mean, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. This is a great quote for a reason.

For the most part, I'd say this defense is already playoff tested. Just look at the 2nd half of the season schedule. The majority of the teams they are playing are fighting to make the post season, and the Cards are turning each of them away. In the close games, they have taken each teams best shot...and in the blowouts, like this week, they dispatched a team with ease that the "experts" had started pining for, with their recent win history.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Not really. Safeties have some scheme versatility to choose their responsibility on a play (if they earn it) — Polamalu was allowed to read the offense and re-define the responsibilities of the players on either side of him based on that read.

Cornerbacks have a responsibility at the outset of the play. Because of the distances and crowd noise, it's difficult to pass off those responsibilities pre-snap because you see an opening. If a cornerback abandons his hook-flat zone, that's a problem for the other 10 guys on the field.

I would argue that HB had a lot of the responsibilities that you said safeties have. He plays like a slot corner and a safety.

 

[kerouac9]

I would argue that HB had a lot of the responsibilities that you said safeties have. He plays like a slot corner and a safety.

I'd listen to that argument if you can offer some evidence in support of it.

 

[Cardiac]

Yep, it's an amazing dynamic. Top 5 defense, and the #1 defense the last 5 weeks, yet the "DC is terrible" is kind of a head scratcher to me.

maybe a defense like this is the only acceptable one to some and we can hold GB to zero yards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el5QXV-W5_g

Nailed it Cbus, if the Cards allow any first downs or god forbid a TD then Bettcher sucks.

I would love for us to have the 85 Bears or 2003 (IIRC) Ravens D's but those almost never happen and with the rule changes doubt there will be any like those ever again.

In addition, it is my perception that we have really closed down teams Offenses in the 2nd half. This screams great half time adjustments and getting the players ready to dominate.

 

[HeavyB3]

Jeez, I get up this morning, check ASFN, and the first 2 threads are calling out BA & Bettcher. Bulletin: the Cards are 12-2, kids! Wake up and realize it. That's not Jim Tomsula or Mike Pettine out there roaming the sidelines, giving the same old excuses in their post-game presser. These guys are winning week in and week out, and just laid a 40-burger, on the road, on the east coast (where we NEVER used to win), on a team playing for a playoff spot. Are we THAT spoiled already that we have to second-guess our coaches at this point? Wow.

Some people are never happy. Maybe people would rather go back to 4-12 seasons since we are all doom and gloom anyway.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'd listen to that argument if you can offer some evidence in support of it.

Do you really need it? Ok then.

1. He often/most often covers the opposing team's TE. Job that usually falls to the safety on most teams.
2. He blitzes much more than a traditional corner. Almost safety like even.
3. He is the team's best tackler. Those spots are usually held by either linebackers or safeties.
4. Look at this gif (link below) courtesy of football insiders. He is literally lined up as the lone safety, then moves onto the A gap blitz before backing off to be the lone safety again. How many corners line up in the middle of the line showing blitz? How many end up in a 1 deep zone?

http://gfycat.com/JadedAnchoredGalapagostortoise

Mathieu still has a ways to go in terms of proving his longevity, but he is the closest thing the NFL has to what Troy Polamalu was during his prime.

Shall I go on?

 

[daves]

I cannot disagree more with this. The fact that his players step up and bail him out does not mean he is doing a good job. I really don't think he's figured it out yet.

+1

Way too many blown coverages or having guys out of place. Guys so wide open there aren't any of our players on the screen. Too many series where we hold them for the first 2 downs and then give up big yards on third. Lack of pass rush really hurts his game plan but he needs to game plan to over come this.

How do you conclude from this that the players are bailing Bettcher out or that wide open guys are the fault of the scheme? Isn't it just as likely, or maybe even MORE likely, that the players are blowing their assignments and leaving guys wide open?

In 2015, the Cardinals D is 7th in yards and 6th in points.
In 2014, they were 9th in yards and 5th in points.
In 2013, they were 6th in yards and 7th in points.

Pretty steady results, and in 2014 they had Cromartie playing one of his better seasons at CB (whereas this year people are hating on Powers), and in 2013 they had Dansby, Washington, Dockett, Abraham, and Williams.

Yet many people put Bowles (deservedly) on a pedestal, while relentlessly criticizing Bettcher.

Seems to me that Bettcher has done as well as anyone could've hoped.



...dbs

 

[Stout]

Some people are never happy. Maybe people would rather go back to 4-12 seasons since we are all doom and gloom anyway.

 

[cardpa]

How do you conclude from this that the players are bailing Bettcher out or that wide open guys are the fault of the scheme? Isn't it just as likely, or maybe even MORE likely, that the players are blowing their assignments and leaving guys wide open?

In 2015, the Cardinals D is 7th in yards and 6th in points.
In 2014, they were 9th in yards and 5th in points.
In 2013, they were 6th in yards and 7th in points.

Pretty steady results, and in 2014 they had Cromartie playing one of his better seasons at CB (whereas this year people are hating on Powers), and in 2013 they had Dansby, Washington, Dockett, Abraham, and Williams.

Yet many people put Bowles (deservedly) on a pedestal, while relentlessly criticizing Bettcher.

Seems to me that Bettcher has done as well as anyone could've hoped.



...dbs

Daves,
Excellent post. I wonder if there is any other defense in the NFL that can post similar numbers over a 3 year period? That is about as steady a defense as anyone can expect to wish for.

 

[kerouac9]

Do you really need it? Ok then.

1. He often/most often covers the opposing team's TE. Job that usually falls to the safety on most teams.Nonsense. Are you even watching the games? He's most often on the interior WR. He's only on the TE in situations where the offense is in heavy sets.
2. He blitzes much more than a traditional corner. Almost safety like even.Corners blitz in the NFL all the time today — particularly nickel corners. I'm not sure that he blitzes as often as you think he does — maybe 4 times a game.
3. He is the team's best tackler. Those spots are usually held by either linebackers or safeties. This is a non-sequitur. Patrick Peterson might be our second-best tackler, and Deone Bucannon might be our worst tackler. Doesn't say anything about the structure of him in the defense.
4. Look at this gif (link below) courtesy of football insiders. He is literally lined up as the lone safety, then moves onto the A gap blitz before backing off to be the lone safety again. How many corners line up in the middle of the line showing blitz? How many end up in a 1 deep zone?IT wasn't a 1-deep zone. It was a three-deep zone—look out deep the other cornerbacks on the play are. And tons of corners play a three-deep zone. Also, it's a one-play sample size; not very convincing.

http://gfycat.com/JadedAnchoredGalapagostortoise



Shall I go on?

Additionally, the Bears game was Who are football insiders, anyway?

Mathieu almost never lines up inside of the tackle box — the traditional position for safeties. When Jefferson and Johnson are playing so many snaps, it's difficult to argue that Mathieu is spending most of his time in a traditional safety role or position.

 

[HeavyB3]

Right back at you. Some people are never happy. Enjoy that the Cardinals are good and are still a legitimate SB contender.