Bickley: JJ NO WANTY ATL...

[playstation]

After reading all that all I can say is wow some people are really out there. Lets review the situation shall we

-JJ had his first consistent year last year making entirely possible that he's finally reaching his potential. Then again its just as likely that after his big pay day that he will go back into his shell becoming the scared player that he was when he got here. It really is 50/50 at this point

- Isn't it amazing how players suddenly do well in their contract year and then change back to their old selves once they get paid? Eric Dampier finally "got it" in his last year with the Warriors and it was like Marcus Camby was touched by the hand of God or something a couple of years ago because his previous season he was lucky to play half a season but during his last contract year, he managed to play almost the entire season (IIRC he missed just a few games that year). I can go on with examples like this for hours, days, heck even weeks of this phenomenon.

Its not just an NBA phenomenon either. Pick whichever of the major sports you like and I can give examples for all of them ... yet another reason I hate guaranteed contracts

- If JJ does go back into his shell and become the player he was before last year and signs a big contract, he then becomes an albatross for the team that will be tough to get rid of (see Penny Hardaway).

- JJ is NOT a max player. Spin it however the hell you want but he should not be making that level of money.

- Finally, you do not begin negotiations by offering the biggest contract you can. You start low and then negotiate from there. Its a process, the opening bid is A STARTING POINT, thats it thats all

- JJ has made it perfectly clear that he does not want to play here anymore. It doesn't matter about the reasoning. Thats not spin, thats something he told directly to Marc friggin Stein at ESPN.com

- The Suns have made it abudantly clear now and in the history that if a player does not want to be here, they will get rid of him. Barkley, Finley, Horry, etc all had there wish granted when they said they wanted out

I really wish JJ wanted to stay and at a more resonable price but its not meant to be, so we'll just have to take a wait-and-see approach to the offseason seeing what the Suns do now with all of the assets they recieved in this trade.

Thats really all we can do because crying about the spin and other circumstances revolving around this deal won't bring him back. In short, its time to move on ... SHEESH

having watched joe for the last 18 months, i don't believe for a second that he'll go back into a shell, and me thinks if joe was still on the team you'd agree. 50/50??? c'mon, who you kiddin. this was not only last season, it was as soon as penny and steph were gone.

Johnson told sarver he liked atlanta, but in the same article he also was this:

Johnson, though, insists that his play and commitment to the Suns wouldn't be affected if a signed Hawks offer sheet results in a return to the desert.

"I would come back and work as hard as I ever have," Johnson said. "If they match, all this stuff is behind me from that minute on. I hope everybody [in Phoenix] puts everything behind them, too."

if that's not interesting enough, there's this:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0731suns0731.html

Consider what Johnson also said Friday to Toronto's "The Fan" radio station when asked whether Phoenix was the best scenario for him.

"Probably so, more than likely so," Johnson said before a long, deep breath. "It's going to be tough. It's going to be real tough. Hopefully, everything will work out like we want it."

so no, i do not agree with you on pretty much everything except the final statement.

yes, joe is not worth $70M, but i'd rather have a $70M joe than no joe because i think the overvaluing is only about $10M.

just like i'd rather have Nash at $66M than no Nash at all, even though everyone and their mother agreed it was a massive overpayment, and apparently in that argument the Suns agree with me.

 

[playstation]

Please. This same stuff has been spouted on this and many other boards for 4 years now.

LOL. people keep bringing it up BECAUSE IT IS TRUE! that's hilarious. rofl.

dude, this guy keeps saying the earth is round. he's been doing it for like a thousand years...same old crap. he really should give up on that rhetoric, i mean i've heard it a thousand times...lol

 

[Evil Ash]

when did finley want out? did i miss that all those years ago? i thought he wanted to stay, but for kidd he really had no hope of that.

There were rumors that he didn't like the coaching, how he was being used, and the lack of playing time he was getting. Don't know if it was true or not but just an example

 

[Evil Ash]

having watched joe for the last 18 months, i don't believe for a second that he'll go back into a shell, and me thinks if joe was still on the team you'd agree. 50/50??? c'mon, who you kiddin. this was not only last season, it was as soon as penny and steph were gone.

Johnson told sarver he liked atlanta, but in the same article he also was this:

Johnson, though, insists that his play and commitment to the Suns wouldn't be affected if a signed Hawks offer sheet results in a return to the desert.

"I would come back and work as hard as I ever have," Johnson said. "If they match, all this stuff is behind me from that minute on. I hope everybody [in Phoenix] puts everything behind them, too."

if that's not interesting enough, there's this:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0731suns0731.html

Consider what Johnson also said Friday to Toronto's "The Fan" radio station when asked whether Phoenix was the best scenario for him.

"Probably so, more than likely so," Johnson said before a long, deep breath. "It's going to be tough. It's going to be real tough. Hopefully, everything will work out like we want it."

so no, i do not agree with you on pretty much everything except the final statement.

yes, joe is not worth $70M, but i'd rather have a $70M joe than no joe because i think the overvaluing is only about $10M.

just like i'd rather have Nash at $66M than no Nash at all, even though everyone and their mother agreed it was a massive overpayment, and apparently in that argument the Suns agree with me.

Spin goes both ways. It might have been him just covering his ass if the Suns decided to keep him no matter what. Remember what he tells the media isn't always what he tells people behind closed doors

 

[SunsPride]

yes, joe is not worth $70M, but i'd rather have a $70M joe than no joe because i think the overvaluing is only about $10M.

Good point.

 

[playstation]

Spin goes both ways. It might have been him just covering his ass if the Suns decided to keep him no matter what. Remember what he tells the media isn't always what he tells people behind closed doors

you can believe what you want, but that is what was said and what made it to print.

bottom line is for him to consent to a sign-n-trade (and none of this gets started if he does not do so), he would have to KNOW that he would no longer be a Sun. Its not like signing with the Hawks and waiting for 7 days. With this, you sign, and you're gone. So the fact that he conceded to do that tells me he wanted to go.

however, i still think that if the suns kept him, he would have been fine and everyone would have moved on. sterling did that exact thing to elton brand, directly after elton asked him personally and through the papers not to match, and elton is just a model citizen. i'm positive jj would have been the same.

 

[KloD]

you can believe what you want, but that is what was said and what made it to print.

bottom line is for him to consent to a sign-n-trade (and none of this gets started if he does not do so), he would have to KNOW that he would no longer be a Sun. Its not like signing with the Hawks and waiting for 7 days. With this, you sign, and you're gone. So the fact that he conceded to do that tells me he wanted to go.

however, i still think that if the suns kept him, he would have been fine and everyone would have moved on. sterling did that exact thing to elton brand, directly after elton asked him personally and through the papers not to match, and elton is just a model citizen. i'm positive jj would have been the same.

Let's agree for the sake of it that he said what he did to the media to get the contract from Atlanta. Why would he tell Suns management this in a personal phone conversation? All he had to do was tell them that he does want to stay in Phoenix, but for the contract Atlanta was offering. He could have still said what he did to the media, but having told the Suns not to match is a clear indicator to me that the money was not the deciding factor. He would have got his.

 

[Errntknght]

Actually, if you recall, Joe was not a model of consistency last year - he had lots of off games at home. His scoring average on the road was something like three or four points higher than it was in home games. Maybe he likes Atlanta because there won't be any fans in the stands at home putting him under pressure to perform.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Actually, if you recall, Joe was not a model of consistency last year - he had lots of off games at home. His scoring average on the road was something like three or four points higher than it was in home games. Maybe he likes Atlanta because there won't be any fans in the stands at home putting him under pressure to perform.

Yeah I don't recall that.

you want inconsistent Stephen Hunter, Leandro Barbosa that's an inconsistent player.

you could twist things in anyway to make them fit it how you want. Let's just pretend your statement is true for a second that Joe was a better road player by 4 pts a game on average then I could easily argue that Joe thrives in an adverse enviroment, which to me is exactly what you need if you are an elite team..Anyone can play well at home you want great players at home, hell go get yourself White Chocolate and get smoked in the first round each year if you're lucky. but did you see that sweet behind the back pass that went into the stands whoooaaaazzzzz WC for teh win!

 

[cly2tw]

Actually, if you recall, Joe was not a model of consistency last year - he had lots of off games at home. His scoring average on the road was something like three or four points higher than it was in home games. Maybe he likes Atlanta because there won't be any fans in the stands at home putting him under pressure to perform.

 

[George O'Brien]

Actually, if you recall, Joe was not a model of consistency last year - he had lots of off games at home. His scoring average on the road was something like three or four points higher than it was in home games. Maybe he likes Atlanta because there won't be any fans in the stands at home putting him under pressure to perform.

I think you're onto something. Now, every game for JJ will be a road game...

The so called home court disadvantage seemed to diminish as the season went on, but it was a team wide problem for a while. The Suns would win, but seem to struggle against weak teams at home but come out strong on the road. The Suns ended the season with the leagues best road record. Their records on the road and at home were both 31-10 31-10.

BTW, The Suns road record was the key to their success. The only team that came close to the Suns road record was Dallas at 29-12. San Antonio was not that good on the road during the regular season, with only a 21-20 record. This was only 7th best. 27 teams had losing records on the road.

And if you are curious, the Hawks tied with the Bobcats for the worst road record in the NBA at 4-37.

 

[coloradosun]

- JJ is NOT a max player. Spin it however the hell you want but he should not be making that level of money.

Marion is not a max player either. The Suns did not let the market determine his value like they wanted to with JJ, that is a mistake they made and did not want to replicate. Marion was offered a max extension just like what they will do with Amare. I think that they regret that now because they actually going to have a max player who is a max contract and Marion's contract is hogtying them on other commitments.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

After reading all that all I can say is wow some people are really out there. Lets review the situation shall we

-JJ had his first consistent year last year making entirely possible that he's finally reaching his potential. Then again its just as likely that after his big pay day that he will go back into his shell becoming the scared player that he was when he got here. It really is 50/50 at this point

- Isn't it amazing how players suddenly do well in their contract year and then change back to their old selves once they get paid? Eric Dampier finally "got it" in his last year with the Warriors and it was like Marcus Camby was touched by the hand of God or something a couple of years ago because his previous season he was lucky to play half a season but during his last contract year, he managed to play almost the entire season (IIRC he missed just a few games that year). I can go on with examples like this for hours, days, heck even weeks of this phenomenon.

Its not just an NBA phenomenon either. Pick whichever of the major sports you like and I can give examples for all of them ... yet another reason I hate guaranteed contracts

- If JJ does go back into his shell and become the player he was before last year and signs a big contract, he then becomes an albatross for the team that will be tough to get rid of (see Penny Hardaway).

- JJ is NOT a max player. Spin it however the hell you want but he should not be making that level of money.

- Finally, you do not begin negotiations by offering the biggest contract you can. You start low and then negotiate from there. Its a process, the opening bid is A STARTING POINT, thats it thats all

- JJ has made it perfectly clear that he does not want to play here anymore. It doesn't matter about the reasoning. Thats not spin, thats something he told directly to Marc friggin Stein at ESPN.com

- The Suns have made it abudantly clear now and in the history that if a player does not want to be here, they will get rid of him. Barkley, Finley, Horry, etc all had there wish granted when they said they wanted out

I really wish JJ wanted to stay and at a more resonable price but its not meant to be, so we'll just have to take a wait-and-see approach to the offseason seeing what the Suns do now with all of the assets they recieved in this trade.

Thats really all we can do because crying about the spin and other circumstances revolving around this deal won't bring him back. In short, its time to move on ... SHEESH

yeah JJ reminds me alot of erick dampier .oh except erick is a lazy 29 year old who never progressed as a player until contract time. JJ's 24 and getting better as 24 yr olds are apt to do

..I'd love to move on but since the friggin trade has not gone through yet i unfortunatly cannot. Theres a possibility (albeit small) that JJ comes back...till then given my choice i take JJ