Bickley/MJ reporting Horton wants out.

[binkar]

He can just quit---and I hope he does.

This organization has proven time and time again it cannot compete with the big boys.

Ray Horton may not have proved it to you---but he has 100% proved it to me---he is big boy and a winner. He deserved the best---and he got shafted here because he was special to the defense like Kurt Warner was to the offense.

Quitters aren't winners, just whiners.

 

[BW52]

Yeah---it pains me---it pains me to watch special be thrown away again by an inept and classless organization.

Maybe I should heed your advice---

Except that I was born a Cardinal fan and I will die a Cardinal fan---

And if you don't like my thoughts---feel free to put me on ignore.

I usually enjoy your writing.This time your over-the-top bluster and arrogance has been too much .
Too bad you are a lifelong fan of such a classless and inept organization.
Feel free to keep cryiing like a little girl.

 

[CardsFan88]

It would be pretty messed up if we told him we had three candidates, and he'd know by Tuesday. Then those two took other jobs, tuesday came and left, and instead of hiring him, we are looking at someone else, who might not even want Horton to return at all.

I wouldn't say that's him being 'entitled' (the 2012 most misunderstood word by republicans and democrats) if he felt irked.

If he's irked, and this is true, which we don't know if it is, then he'd have every right to be irked after doing what he did.

It also doesn't matter what anyone thought of him when he was hired two years ago. 2013 isn't 2011. In 2011 Horton hadn't taken over a Cardinals defense and transformed it into one of the best in the league. By 2013, he had. The whole Butler thing doesn't matter squat. I guess for 2013 the Seahawks shouldn't start Russell Wilson because they thought at the start of free agency that Matt Flynn was their guy. Life happens. Things change.

I've wanted us to do our due dilligence, but not at the expense of screwing everything up. I don't think the Cards are cheap, but also know they aren't going to consistently or even very often outbid other people for anything. Now it seems like the imo most natural fit Horton could have maybe brought along a solid offensive staff in Turner and Tice.

I'll be disappointed if all this is true, but since I don't know if it is, or what specifically is true and what isn't (as there are so many variables), I can only hold out hope that in the end things might turn out okay. Won't change anything, but there is still a chance Horton becomes our coach.

I do think like Mitch if McCoy was the guy the MB wanted, MB was indeed a fool for playing Keim's agent and thus McCoy's. Though it might be a moot point anyways as it truly seems like McCoy regardless of anything else, wanted to be in SD.

But if you watched McCoy's presser (with SD after being hired), I'd speculate he was talking, right or wrong, about us. If you read between the lines, what McCoy said could easily be directed at MB for the whole agent bypass thing. Though again we don't know if any of this is true. But if we wanted him, and one time had a shot, the whole Keim thing might have really hurt our chances.

All that said, Horton and Tice alone ain't bad. Though Horton needs to find another OC. Tice would not be a bad addition.

 

[Mitch]

Quitters aren't winners, just whiners.

Bill Belichick quit the Jets for the Patriots.

Bad move?

You really don't have a clue, do you?

 

[Goldfield]

It doesn't matter what I say---I know in my heart what is wrong with this whole scenario.

We all must know what it is like to come into an organization---a struggling one at that---and actually be the catalyst to turn what was once a liability into a shining asset---

And then just when you have the opportunity to earn a promotion and a much deserved vote of confidence from your employers---the employers decide some outsider is more qualified for the job---after YOU'VE been in the trenches and your fellow employees show their faith in you---but, IT JUST WASN'T ENOUGH, was it?

I think all of us---in direct or vicarious ways---understand this.

Some decide to stay anyway while seeking employment elsewhere---and some decide, you know what, life is too short, I want to be where I feel valued and aptly compensated.

In these situations---no one HAS to remain a hostage if she/he doesn't wish to.

He can just quit---and I hope he does.

This organization has proven time and time again it cannot compete with the big boys.

Ray Horton may not have proved it to you---but he has 100% proved it to me---he is big boy and a winner. He deserved the best---and he got shafted here because he was special to the defense like Kurt Warner was to the offense.

Horton deserves a HCing job the day someone hires him for that. The cardinals have done nothing wrong here. They didn't fire him, then they gave him a shot to interview. They made him a first time DC.

I love Horton, I don't want to lose him. But he has nothing to be upset with.

 

[binkar]

Bill Belichick quit the Jets for the Patriots.

Bad move?

You really don't have a clue, do you?

Nope. I sure don't.

Thanks for the love, Mitch.

xoxoxoxoxoxo

 

[Goldfield]

I usually enjoy your writing.This time your over-the-top bluster and arrogance has been too much .
Too bad you are a lifelong fan of such a classless and inept organization.
Feel free to keep cryiing like a little girl.

I have to agree Mitch, your way overreacting.

 

[Buckybird]

Yeah---it pains me---it pains me to watch special be thrown away again by an inept and classless organization.

Maybe I should heed your advice---

Except that I was born a Cardinal fan and I will die a Cardinal fan---

And if you don't like my thoughts---feel free to put me on ignore.

Come on Mitch, the Cards have been winners since the Bidwills have owned this team.

8 playoff teams 92 years says they do things the right way! I'm with ya, my man history doesn't lie, but most seem to think its not the same old cardinals when in reality it is...a third generation of bad decisions & bad football.

This whole situation it seems comes down to Michael refusing to stick by his "flight plan" words of not favoring an offensive coach overnight a defensive coach. Yeah right

 

[binkar]

Bill Belichick quit the Jets for the Patriots.

Bad move?

You really don't have a clue, do you?

Do you realize that over the last few months you have claimed to want Chip Kelly, Bill O'Brien, Jay Gruden, Mike McCoy, and Todd Haley over Ray Horton at various points? Now that Bidwill hasn't hired Horton, though he went after three of the guys on "your" list, you're calling him inept.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/changes-for-2013-a-187269.html
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/chip-kelly-is-my-1-and-my-2-is-186933.html

I assume you will ignore this. Well either that or come back with some personal attack at me.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Horton deserves a HCing job the day someone hires him for that. The cardinals have done nothing wrong here. They didn't fire him, then they gave him a shot to interview. They made him a first time DC.

I love Horton, I don't want to lose him. But he has nothing to be upset with.

How do we know, a lot of information out there (and to discredit one source is to discredit them all, IMO).

I would say if he is upset for not getting the job and wants to leave because of it then that is a red flag.

If he got lied to, and strung out, he has every reason to leave. Not saying it is the smartest thing business wise, but there is a solid merit to it. If you can't trust in the people who are backing you then why bother. It is not very professional but then neither is lying to your employees that have done good work for you.

We will see.

 

[JeffGollin]

Four freakin' pages under a slightly different heading covering the same old topic. No new info, just the lead topic followed by 4 pages of blah.

Thanks for the inflammation!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

It doesn't matter what I say---I know in my heart what is wrong with this whole scenario.

We all must know what it is like to come into an organization---a struggling one at that---and actually be the catalyst to turn what was once a liability into a shining asset---

And then just when you have the opportunity to earn a promotion and a much deserved vote of confidence from your employers---the employers decide some outsider is more qualified for the job---after YOU'VE been in the trenches and your fellow employees show their faith in you---but, IT JUST WASN'T ENOUGH, was it?

I think all of us---in direct or vicarious ways---understand this.

Some decide to stay anyway while seeking employment elsewhere---and some decide, you know what, life is too short, I want to be where I feel valued and aptly compensated.

In these situations---no one HAS to remain a hostage if she/he doesn't wish to.

He can just quit---and I hope he does.

This organization has proven time and time again it cannot compete with the big boys.

Ray Horton may not have proved it to you---but he has 100% proved it to me---he is big boy and a winner. He deserved the best---and he got shafted here because he was special to the defense like Kurt Warner was to the offense.

Save for the part about hoping he quits, I am in complete agreement with you.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

What could possibly be the reason

That the Bidwills don't know how to run with the big guys. That they don't have the capability of being a top-tier professional organization. That there's no killer instinct.

That's my fear.

We'll see what Michael can pull off and if he can put together the organization that wins Super Bowls. I hope so. He came out of the gate strong but it sure seems like he's plodding along to the finish line.

 

[chickenhead]

There's an awful lot of teeth-gashing over hypotheticals going on, and people presuming what the parties in question think and feel, IMO.

I'd love to see Horton as our coach. But our biggest problem is the offense. So it's either hire an offensive coach, and make sure you get a great OC. If you're hiring a first-time defensive coach like Horton, then he needs to be able to deliver that OC. Otherwise it's difficult to expect a top OC (especially if he's been a HC) to come in under an inexperienced HC when they think perhaps they should have the job.

I'm not saying the Cards have handled this well. But I do understand why they might be willing to risk disappointing Horton for the opportunity to have him on the defensive side of the ball while the offense improves.

 

[asuhoopsnut]

Really? Didn't most think Kevin Butler was a better DC before the Cards had to settle for Horton.

I don't think a better DC would settle for his unit rolling over like they did in Seattle. No matter if they were rebelling against the HC or not. That's his unit.

You must be referring to Keith Butler. Kevin Butler was a kicker.

 

[Mitch]

There's an awful lot of teeth-gashing over hypotheticals going on, and people presuming what the parties in question think and feel, IMO.

I'd love to see Horton as our coach. But our biggest problem is the offense. So it's either hire an offensive coach, and make sure you get a great OC. If you're hiring a first-time defensive coach like Horton, then he needs to be able to deliver that OC. Otherwise it's difficult to expect a top OC (especially if he's been a HC) to come in under an inexperienced HC when they think perhaps they should have the job.

I'm not saying the Cards have handled this well. But I do understand why they might be willing to risk disappointing Horton for the opportunity to have him on the defensive side of the ball while the offense improves.

There are very qualified and experienced OCs out there...and if you open the job, some nice surprise candidates might show up as well.

Keep special intact---search for special on the other side of the ball via a qualified OC.

Is it really all that difficult to imagine?

 

[Buckybird]

There's an awful lot of teeth-gashing over hypotheticals going on, and people presuming what the parties in question think and feel, IMO.

I'd love to see Horton as our coach. But our biggest problem is the offense. So it's either hire an offensive coach, and make sure you get a great OC. If you're hiring a first-time defensive coach like Horton, then he needs to be able to deliver that OC. Otherwise it's difficult to expect a top OC (especially if he's been a HC) to come in under an inexperienced HC when they think perhaps they should have the job.

I'm not saying the Cards have handled this well. But I do understand why they might be willing to risk disappointing Horton for the opportunity to have him on the defensive side of the ball while the offense improves.

It's also no guarantee that an offensive HC can turn around this shipwreck that has terrible talent at keys positions either. Ummmm Ken Whisenhunt
Don Coryell or Sid Gillman couldn't make this offense work with our bad QBs, bad Oline & bad RBs. Just my 2 cents.

 

[40yearfan]

It's also no guarantee that an offensive HC can turn around this shipwreck that has terrible talent at keys positions either. Ummmm Ken Whisenhunt
Don Coryell or Sid Gillman couldn't make this offense work with our bad QBs, bad Oline & bad RBs. Just my 2 cents.

I don't know about Gillman, but I'll guarantee you if gave the 70's version of Coryell this team, he would be in the SB within 2 years and win it. He would salivate over this defense and Fitz.

 

[Zeno]

That the Bidwills don't know how to run with the big guys. That they don't have the capability of being a top-tier professional organization. That there's no killer instinct.

That's my fear.

We'll see what Michael can pull off and if he can put together the organization that wins Super Bowls. I hope so. He came out of the gate strong but it sure seems like he's plodding along to the finish line.

What does any of that have to do with Ray Horton? Other organizations have interviewed him and didn't think he fit either...are they all equally clueless? Really?

 

[Mitch]

What does any of that have to do with Ray Horton? Other organizations have interviewed him and didn't think he fit either...are they all equally clueless? Really?

He never coached for them---he coached for US---and he delivered for US in ways we have never seen in Arizona.

I don't care what other teams think...I care about what our team thinks.

We just lost special.

This is Warner part II.

 

[Buckybird]

I don't know about Gillman, but I'll guarantee you if gave the 70's version of Coryell this team, he would be in the SB within 2 years and win it. He would salivate over this defense and Fitz.

You mean a HC who couldn't get Hart & co, then Fouts & co to the SB?
He would stand no chance with the pieces the Cards have in place today regardless of our defense, book it.

Yep all we need is a new HC to lead us to the promised land

 

[Evil Ash]

He never coached for them---he coached for US---and he delivered for US in ways we have never seen in Arizona.

I don't care what other teams think...I care about what our team thinks.

We just lost special.

This is Warner part II.

He's under contract. We haven't lost anything yet.

 

[JeffGollin]

He's under contract. We haven't lost anything yet.

That.

(But it could go either way).

 

[BigRedRage]

If horton stays cool. If he goes, oh well. On to next year. Go big red!!!!!

Step back a little. Its football. We aren't on the team, we are fans. I will watch, hope and cheer as always regardless like I have since 88. Arians did great things with indy let's hope he does it here too.y

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DeAnna]

I get the feeling Horton might be more upset at given hope (or maybe told outright) he would get the job and now he is being strung along. But if he could not deliver on his promise to bring Turner/Tice, then that's his own doing.