Bidwill Isn't Committed but Should Be.

[BigRedMO]

In the 2007 Season Kurt Warner finished with a passer rating of 89.8. Warner came in that year and saved the remainder of the season after Leinart's floundering and injury. Warner performed way beyond everyones expectations and restored hope to fans of a futile franchise.

This was a franchise that had lost to the Bears the previous year on a national TV game where the Bears made a miraculous comeback in the second half without their offense scoring a TD.

So what was Warner's reward after the 07 season? He missed the passer rating bonus goal by .2 and was denied the 500,000 performance bonus. Dont you think that might have had an impact on Warner's willingness to risk his health for the organization? In 08 Warner took the Cardinals to a place I never thought they would ever reach, the SUPER BOWL. Had he been turned loose in the first half the Cards blowout the steelers. What was Warner's reward? He was lowballed and allowed to make a trip to SF. If Bidwill was commited to winning how could he run that risk after what Warner had done to revive a doormat? My conclusion is Bidwill is not committed to winning. What other owner would tell his Super Bowl, Pro Bowl and future HOfer QB go ahead and take a visit to my in division rival?

The team is 41 million below the 09 cap but couldnt afford to sign Dansby? Really? The team couldnt afford to go into the NFL season with McNabb or another real NFL QB? Really?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Ridiculous.

I disagree with every single part of that thread. Not to mention how un-informed the note about Dansby is.

 

[Renz]

So what was Warner's reward after the 07 season? He missed the passer rating bonus goal by .2 and was denied the 500,000 performance bonus. Dont you think that might have had an impact on Warner's willingness to risk his health for the organization?

OMG! This again? Man, this board is circling the drain.

 

[Hollywood]

Ridiculous.

I disagree with every single part of that thread. Not to mention how un-informed the note about Dansby is.

Amen! This is a stupid topic.....again.

 

[earthsci]

OMG! This again? Man, this board is circling the drain.

It's the same OP.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Well, someone should be "committed", and I don't mean the Bidwill's.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

In the 2007 Season Kurt Warner finished with a passer rating of 89.8. Warner came in that year and saved the remainder of the season after Leinart's floundering and injury. Warner performed way beyond everyones expectations and restored hope to fans of a futile franchise.

This was a franchise that had lost to the Bears the previous year on a national TV game where the Bears made a miraculous comeback in the second half without their offense scoring a TD.

So what was Warner's reward after the 07 season? He missed the passer rating bonus goal by .2 and was denied the 500,000 performance bonus. Dont you think that might have had an impact on Warner's willingness to risk his health for the organization? In 08 Warner took the Cardinals to a place I never thought they would ever reach, the SUPER BOWL. Had he been turned loose in the first half the Cards blowout the steelers. What was Warner's reward? He was lowballed and allowed to make a trip to SF. If Bidwill was commited to winning how could he run that risk after what Warner had done to revive a doormat? My conclusion is Bidwill is not committed to winning. What other owner would tell his Super Bowl, Pro Bowl and future HOfer QB go ahead and take a visit to my in division rival?

The team is 41 million below the 09 cap but couldnt afford to sign Dansby? Really? The team couldnt afford to go into the NFL season with McNabb or another real NFL QB? Really?

Michael Silver is that you?

The cards did the right thing in Warner's offer for they and most of us werent sure he'd play for two more seasons and he didnt. I think he made 19 million last season, so I think that was pretty good right?

This is nit picking...they offered Dansby "Dansby money" but he CHOSE to leave.

I agree with McNabb though...

95% of NFL teams are hording cash right now so you cant pin this on the team.

 

[lobo]

Well, someone should be "committed", and I don't mean the Bidwill's.

Well said. For some reason over the past 2/3 seasons the squirrels were in hibernation and the number of outrageous posts were at a minimal level and a pleasure to read......I can't say the same now. I have cut my reading time down significantly.

 

[Treefiddy]

So what was Warner's reward after the 07 season? He missed the passer rating bonus goal by .2 and was denied the 500,000 performance bonus. Dont you think that might have had an impact on Warner's willingness to risk his health for the organization?

I was under the impression that the organization wanted to pay Warner the bonus, but couldn't do it because of league rules.

 

[joeshmo]

So what was Warner's reward after the 07 season? He missed the passer rating bonus goal by .2 and was denied the 500,000 performance bonus.

True, but lets not put revisionist history on this topic. The Cards were not allowed to give him that performance bonus. You cannot pay a player something that is not in their contract. It would be against league rules.

The team is 41 million below the 09 cap but couldnt afford to sign Dansby? Really? The team couldnt afford to go into the NFL season with McNabb or another real NFL QB? Really?

Not sure why you are still quoting that number. The list you quoted was already proved to be crap. That was before free agency started list, not the current numbers. The list that someone posted from PFT is accurate. Plus I am not sure why people are still confusing player salary spent in a year and cap totals. The two are not even close to being comparable. For example the all mighty spend heavy Cowboys spent $ 90,650,939 in player salary last year. We are spending $97.8 million this year. You don't have a leg to stand in this debate of you dont understand the difference between cap and salary amounts, correct amounts, or other important information to put all of this into correct context.

 

[40yearfan]

True, but lets not put revisionist history on this topic. The Cards were not allowed to give him that performance bonus. You cannot pay a player something that is not in their contract. It would be against league rules.



Not sure why you are still quoting that number. The list you quoted was already proved to be crap. That was before free agency started list, not the current numbers. The list that someone posted from PFT is accurate. Plus I am not sure why people are still confusing player salary spent in a year and cap totals. The two are not even close to being comparable. For example the all mighty spend heavy Cowboys spent $ 90,650,939 in player salary last year. We are spending $97.8 million this year. You don't have a leg to stand in this debate of you dont understand the difference between cap and salary amounts, correct amounts, or other important information to put all of this into correct context.

C'mon Joe. Quit confusing the situation with actual facts. It disrupts the flow of the rant.

 

[john h]

In the 2007 Season Kurt Warner finished with a passer rating of 89.8. Warner came in that year and saved the remainder of the season after Leinart's floundering and injury. Warner performed way beyond everyones expectations and restored hope to fans of a futile franchise.

This was a franchise that had lost to the Bears the previous year on a national TV game where the Bears made a miraculous comeback in the second half without their offense scoring a TD.

So what was Warner's reward after the 07 season? He missed the passer rating bonus goal by .2 and was denied the 500,000 performance bonus. Dont you think that might have had an impact on Warner's willingness to risk his health for the organization? In 08 Warner took the Cardinals to a place I never thought they would ever reach, the SUPER BOWL. Had he been turned loose in the first half the Cards blowout the steelers. What was Warner's reward? He was lowballed and allowed to make a trip to SF. If Bidwill was commited to winning how could he run that risk after what Warner had done to revive a doormat? My conclusion is Bidwill is not committed to winning. What other owner would tell his Super Bowl, Pro Bowl and future HOfer QB go ahead and take a visit to my in division rival?

The team is 41 million below the 09 cap but couldnt afford to sign Dansby? Really? The team couldnt afford to go into the NFL season with McNabb or another real NFL QB? Really?

Well said. The Bidwills may be committed to winning but only after being more committed to making money. Michael is a definite improvement over the old man but the apple never falls far from the tree. Money had to be the reason we went with two rookie backups at QB. Anything else makes no sense.

 

[john h]

Ridiculous.

I disagree with every single part of that thread. Not to mention how un-informed the note about Dansby is.

Saw Dansby make a big time tackle at the goal line to stop a TD this weekend. He is a good player.

 

[joeshmo]

Well said. The Bidwills may be committed to winning but only after being more committed to making money. Michael is a definite improvement over the old man but the apple never falls far from the tree. Money had to be the reason we went with two rookie backups at QB. Anything else makes no sense.

You do know the Cards have been in the top 10 of all NFL teams in terms of player salary spent in Wiz first 3 years here? Seems as if this topic comes up every year since Wiz got here and every year I have to show this list to debunk it.

Here is how much in total player salary each team has spent from 2007 through 2009.

Washington Redskins $413,436,256
New Orleans Saints $363,501,255
Philadelphia Eagles $349,226,830
Chicago Bears $344,889,898
Dallas Cowboys $344,428,611
Arizona Cardinals $337,506,793
Buffalo Bills $334,196,875
Miami Dolphins $334,078,704
Pittsburgh Steelers $333,371,409
Tampa Bay Buccaneers $333,148,098
Houston Texans $329,174,053
San Diego Chargers $328,973,156
New York Jets $328,408,882
Cleveland Browns $328,243,404
Minnesota Vikings $325,322,006
Jacksonville Jaguars $319,698,971
Carolina Panthers $318,797,011
Tennessee Titans $314,093,908
New York Giants $311,740,338
New England Patriots $308,262,715
Green Bay Packers $306,269,692
Baltimore Ravens $304,911,886
Oakland Raiders $302,918,078
Cincinnati Bengals $302,848,376
Denver Broncos $299,795,857
San Francisco 49ers $298,938,607
Detroit Lions $298,522,347
Indianapolis Colts $297,363,428
St. Louis Rams $289,171,100
Seattle Seahawks $278,629,669
Atlanta Falcons $275,728,898
Kansas City Chiefs $275,293,391


And here is the list from 2007 through so far this season 2010 (and this will change because of extensions, incentives, other bonuses, and other stuff)

Washington Redskins $591,636,256
Dallas Cowboys $510,928,611
New Orleans Saints $508,501,255
Philadelphia Eagles $480,226,830
Chicago Bears $476,789,898
Minnesota Vikings $468,722,006
New York Jets $464,108,882
Miami Dolphins $457,878,704
Pittsburgh Steelers $456,271,409
Houston Texans $452,274,053
Cleveland Browns $451,043,404
Green Bay Packers $441,569,692
New York Giants $440,340,338
Buffalo Bills $439,496,875
Oakland Raiders $438,118,078
New England Patriots $437,062,715
San Diego Chargers $436,973,156
Arizona Cardinals $435,306,793
Tennessee Titans $432,093,908
Indianapolis Colts $430,463,428
Carolina Panthers $429,697,011
Baltimore Ravens $427,211,886
San Francisco 49ers $424,838,607
Detroit Lions $421,422,347
Seattle Seahawks $417,429,669
Tampa Bay Buccaneers $413,948,098
Jacksonville Jaguars $409,198,971
Cincinnati Bengals $403,648,376
Denver Broncos $402,695,857
St. Louis Rams $398,271,100
Atlanta Falcons $394,228,898
Kansas City Chiefs $359,793,391

I cannot believe those Falcons, Seattle(with one of the richest owners), Baltimore, Indy, and Tennessee are so cheap. And all the money more the Bears, Bills, Browns Redskins, and Raiders are spending are doing so much better then our football team on the field.

You want to complain about who we spend our money on or how it is allocated is one thing and a very debatable topic to have. But any idea that this team does not spend money at all especially if you want to add in the coaching and other staff salaries into the equation you will be wrong every time and that is a fact and not debatable.

 

[azsportsfan01]

Well said. The Bidwills may be committed to winning but only after being more committed to making money.

Can I saw how utterly moronic arguments like this are? Owners have all their money because they are smart businessmen. Why would they go against everything they have done to make their money here? Every single owner is looking to make a buck. The Bidwill's are no different.

 

[ndjmc]

Ripping the Bidwills is so 2002...or 1999....or 1996....or...

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Saw Dansby make a big time tackle at the goal line to stop a TD this weekend. He is a good player.

John,

If Dansby wanted to sign here, then he would be here. It wasn't about the money. That is what I am getting at.

Dansby is a good player. Not surprised he is doing well in Miami.

Wasn't in the Cards.

The whole, we are cheap thing, is kinda ridiculous. We have extended our main players, who are team oriented.

We even tried to spend frivilously this offseason and went after an extremely overrated Antrel Rolle. But are we really going to pay Rolle more than Wilson ? I don't think that is too smart.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Ripping the Bidwills is so 2002...or 1999....or 1996....or...

Yeah! Baby, nice avatar.

Hockey in a month!

 

[ndjmc]

Yeah! Baby, nice avatar.

Hockey in a month!

Oh yeah...I'm ready man

 

[JeffGollin]

My conclusion is Bidwill is not committed to winning.

Warner left of his own volition (& I believe, in doing so, left millions of dollars on the table). He decided "it was time." (Sometimes old guys do that when their joints ache really really bad and they decide they want to go out on top).

Should things continue to go south with Anderson and his youthful backups, I'll be the first to be critical of the Cardinal front office and coaching staff for making bad decisions when it came to Leinart & Anderson and not bringing in another capable veteran for "backup insurance." (after all, hindsight will continue to be 20-20).

But the tired old "the Bidwills aren't committed to winning" saw is just plain crap. No one who is part of a competitive business "is in it to lose it." (If we were 2 & 0, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And should we somehow conceivably wind up .500 or better by midseason and go on to make the playoffs, there will be those who will anoint Wiz as the next Bill Walsh and Michael B as Executive of the Decade).

This franchise, by and large, has operated in solid fashion and done things the right way over the past few years. The process (as always) has involved hundreds of decisions - big and small. Sometimes those decisions will be poor ones (even awful - like the pickel we may have gotten ourselves into at QB) but that doesn't mean that "management sucks", "the coaches suck" and the franchise is terrible - it just means that, in this one critical area of football, the FO may (I repeat may) have dug itself into a pretty deep hole that may prove difficult to dig out of in a timely way.

There are a 2 or 3 NFL teams that seem to be run so well that they play at a consistently high level throughout the entire 16-game season. But they're the exceptions. Most NFL teams - even successful ones - ride the roller coaster of peaks and valleys during a given season.

I was hoping that the Cardinals were gradually moving into that elite 2 or 3 team category, but I guess not. Not that I think that the team (at least on paper) is about to become a bottom-feeder, but I suspect more and more each day that we will become part of the weekly "cat fight" among 20 - 24 teams scratching and clawing to eke out enough wins to make it to the playoffs.

We already know from experience that the Cardinals are capable of experiencing really ugly losses. My guess (& certainly my hope) is that the Cards will also rebound to look as good in some games as they've looked horrible in others.

But - at 1 & 1 - to conveniently bash the Bidwills is pretty knee-jerkey and definitely "old."

 

[Cardiac]

Warner left of his own volition (& I believe, in doing so, left millions of dollars on the table). He decided "it was time." (Sometimes old guys do that when their joints ache really really bad and they decide they want to go out on top).

Should things continue to go south with Anderson and his youthful backups, I'll be the first to be critical of the Cardinal front office and coaching staff for making bad decisions when it came to Leinart & Anderson and not bringing in another capable veteran for "backup insurance." (after all, hindsight will continue to be 20-20).

But the tired old "the Bidwills aren't committed to winning" saw is just plain crap. No one who is part of a competitive business "is in it to lose it." (If we were 2 & 0, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And should we somehow conceivably wind up .500 or better by midseason and go on to make the playoffs, there will be those who will anoint Wiz as the next Bill Walsh and Michael B as Executive of the Decade).

This franchise, by and large, has operated in solid fashion and done things the right way over the past few years. The process (as always) has involved hundreds of decisions - big and small. Sometimes those decisions will be poor ones (even awful - like the pickel we may have gotten ourselves into at QB) but that doesn't mean that "management sucks", "the coaches suck" and the franchise is terrible - it just means that, in this one critical area of football, the FO may (I repeat may) have dug itself into a pretty deep hole that may prove difficult to dig out of in a timely way.

There are a 2 or 3 NFL teams that seem to be run so well that they play at a consistently high level throughout the entire 16-game season. But they're the exceptions. Most NFL teams - even successful ones - ride the roller coaster of peaks and valleys during a given season.

I was hoping that the Cardinals were gradually moving into that elite 2 or 3 team category, but I guess not. Not that I think that the team (at least on paper) is about to become a bottom-feeder, but I suspect more and more each day that we will become part of the weekly "cat fight" among 20 - 24 teams scratching and clawing to eke out enough wins to make it to the playoffs.

We already know from experience that the Cardinals are capable of experiencing really ugly losses. My guess (& certainly my hope) is that the Cards will also rebound to look as good in some games as they've looked horrible in others.

But - at 1 & 1 - to conveniently bash the Bidwills is pretty knee-jerkey and definitely "old."

Jeff I agree with a lot of your post. Thing is that we are still feeling the effects of Dollar Bills "contributions". We are still dealing with rookie 1st rd draft picks contracts with crazy escalators. Buckybird found the article that this was Dollar Bills doing.

To your point this teams FO has been doing a remarkable job recently. It really started with RG and baby step improvements and then grew exponentially when Michael came on board. Yes they will make mistakes as no one is perfect but our current QB situation is beyond a bad decision. It screams Dollar Bill to me.

 

[Derm]

Funny how as soon as things aren't going so well, the discontent with the front office rises. Not that long ago the board had nothing but praise and admiration with the FO and the scouts. Mr. B was considered out of the picture when it came to picks and signings and the money was flowing like water. Then the picture becomes cloudy and out comes the Mr. B is cheap, Mr. B is not committed to winning, the FO is a joke and the scouts all need a cane and a German Shepherd - all of them 180 degrees out of phase.

I wish I could find that photo of the flaming bag over his head - it's a portrait of a few multi-posters here.

 

[Cardiac]

Funny how as soon as things aren't going so well, the discontent with the front office rises. Not that long ago the board had nothing but praise and admiration with the FO and the scouts. Mr. B was considered out of the picture when it came to picks and signings and the money was flowing like water. Then the picture becomes cloudy and out comes the Mr. B is cheap, Mr. B is not committed to winning, the FO is a joke and the scouts all need a cane and a German Shepherd - all of them 180 degrees out of phase.

I wish I could find that photo of the flaming bag over his head - it's a portrait of a few multi-posters here.

It's not all or nothing for me. The only person I have an issue with is Dollar Bill. I've been a fan for over 40 years now and I can count the number of good decisions he has made on one hand. This team emerged from the toilet when Michael came on board and got UOP stadium built. Something his dad couldn't do for 20 years after moving the team to Az for that purpose.

There are about 30 teams that have spent more $ this year. Who do you think has the checkbook?

I'm sure Mr B wants to win, he simply doesn't know how and won't completely step to the side.

 

[BigRedMO]

How else do you explain letting Warner visit the 49ers as an unrestricted FA after he takes the team to the Super Bowl? If the 49ers knew what they know now about their QBs they sign Warner and these problems would have started last year. At the time ESPN after a period of praising the Cardinals ridiculed them for their handling of Warner. They attributed it to the same old irrelavent Cardinals instead of their newer winning approach. If Brady were a FA do you think NE lets him visit the Jets?

How else do you explain putting a 2 time playoff team in the hands of a QB who completes barely half of his passes when McNabb is available? You dont think the Eagles would have preferred trading him outside the division? How is this different than 1999? If not Bidwill what explains their return to incompetence. Yes it is incompetence to go into a season with their QB situation.

 

[Cardiac]

How else do you explain letting Warner visit the 49ers as an unrestricted FA after he takes the team to the Super Bowl? If the 49ers knew what they know now about their QBs they sign Warner and these problems would have started last year. At the time ESPN after a period of praising the Cardinals ridiculed them for their handling of Warner. They attributed it to the same old irrelavent Cardinals instead of their newer winning approach. If Brady were a FA do you think NE lets him visit the Jets?

How else do you explain putting a 2 time playoff team in the hands of a QB who completes barely half of his passes when McNabb is available? You dont think the Eagles would have preferred trading him outside the division? How is this different than 1999? If not Bidwill what explains their return to incompetence. Yes it is incompetence to go into a season with their QB situation.

Just more evidence to support the theory that Bill Sr still controls the checkbook.