Bill Simmons Lobs Bomb on Cardinal Fans

[kerouac9]

Winning WILL solve this problem.

Again, like it did in 98?

 

[SECTION 11]

I do enjoy the short beer lines though.

 

[denverbirdfan]

i think that's exactly the point. winning will solve the problem temporarily, but once phoenix fans get a whiff of losing, they'll bail. i.e. dbacks, sun devil football. that's the difference.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

I do enjoy the short beer lines though.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Phoenix fan doesn't turn out for a winner when it's nice out. How many games sold out during the 98 season? Two?

There are always excuses.

Like I said, it will take a CONSISTANT winner to bring fans back into the seats.

I'm begining to think you may be the real reason fans are not coming to the games. Sitting next to you must be annoying as hell.

 

[SECTION 11]

They go hand in hand with the short restroom lines!

 

[pete]

All of those stadiums are within a few miles of the coast. They don't even come close to the Temps we reach at SDS. Not to mention they are all state of the art facilities compared to SDS.

The BOB is pretty state of the art, a great place to spend an evening in the summer, can be cheap if you want it to be, and currently 2/3rds empty every D-backs game. If the D-backs were in first, it would be at least 2/3s full every game.

Too many fans who only show up for a playoff or championship series in this town. Phoenix bandwaggoners can wave their white poms in unison with the best of them, but when it comes to being true fans, I can't think of too many places in this country that have worse ones.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Again, like it did in 98?

I seem to remember a lot more people at the games during the 98 season.

 

[AZCB34]

Again, like it did in 98?

Cmon K9, surely you see the problem with your statement. The crowds would have come out after 98 IF the team had actually continued their winning ways. 98 caught alot of people completely off guard so with the possible exception of the SD game, it is not surprising they didn't sell out that year. It will take more than one winning year to get people to come out because skepticism is too high.

On a personal note, for the first time I am without season tix since the Buddy Ryan days for a number of reasons...most importantly I have alot of travel coming up this fall/winter and it seemed that most weekends I was to be gone were home games so it made little financial sense. I struggled giving up my seats and how it may effect me the next time I buy back in but I am not a person to just piss away money for nothing.

 

[Chaz]

Again, like it did in 98?

Com'on the 98 team wasn't a winning team until the last game and even then it was more of an anomoly than a regular occurance.

For the casual observer out there what is there to be excited about that would encourage more people to buy tickets? Even in bad years people that live in other football towns have a reasonable idea that the team might suprise and turn out to have a good season. I don't people in Phoenix have that same attitude about the Cardinals.

It will take a consistant effort over an extended peroid of time to breed the loyalty other teams/cities enjoy.

 

[kerouac9]

Like I said, it will take a CONSISTANT winner to bring fans back into the seats.

I'm begining to think you may be the real reason fans are not coming to the games. Sitting next to you must be annoying as hell.

I'm fun to sit next to. I promise. I do boo the bad fans that leave halfway though the third quarter, though.

Anyone will turn out for a consistent winner. Your team goes to the NFC Championship game for three or four straight years, you're not going to have a hard time selling tickets. On the other hand, do you think that the Bucs fans are just going to stop showing up because they got rid of two aging stars and had a bad season? I don't think so. Has consistent success over years and years helped the Suns limp through some mediocre seasons? Um... no.

Denver has it right. Phoenix fans are horrible and probably the biggest bandwagoners in the country.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The BOB is pretty state of the art, a great place to spend an evening in the summer, can be cheap if you want it to be, and currently 2/3rds empty every D-backs game. If the D-backs were in first, it would be at least 2/3s full every game.

Too many fans who only show up for a playoff or championship series in this town. Phoenix bandwaggoners can wave their white poms in unison with the best of them, but when it comes to being true fans, I can't think of too many places in this country that have worse ones.

Maybe Phoenix has the smartest fans. Why spend thousands of dollars for Baseball season tickets when you can stay home and watch the game. I mean really, who would want to actually go and watch 80 baseball games?

I can barely make it through one baseball game without being bored to death.

 

[kerouac9]

So many excuses. Why can't more people admit the truth?

How many sellouts were there in '99? After the playoff season? Besides the MNF game when corporations had to buy the entire north upper deck so people could see the game on TV and Phoenix would be spared the indignity of failing to sell out a Monday Night national broadcast?

What was the last Sunday night Cardinals game to sellout?

 

[Capital Card]

When I was living in Arizona, I couldn't afford season tickets. Hell I couldn't afford rent back then, but I still managed to make it to half the games. As fate would have it, now that I have the money, I'm 3,000 miles away.

My problems with SDS:

1. Metal bleachers - In the early season they are uncomfortable, but not enough to keep casual fans away from the games.

2. Close quarters. Sorry, but my arse is bigger than the space alloted for on the bleachers. I usually get sandwiched between a couple of other fatties too. During the hotter months, the grossness factor of this is maximized to the point my wife (casual fan) won't go to the games.

3. Bathrooms. Disgusting. While I don't mind pissing into a public trough, I am thankful I've never had to take a dump in SDS. If I ever had to, I'm afraid I would have to leave the stadium to find a clean bathroom.

4. Security. Is there any? Far too many drunken a-holes are allowed to roam the stands picking fights with whomever they feel. I've been to 3 games in the last 5 years. Attendance was abysmal for each, yet a fight/major brawl has broken out near me in every single contest. I'm not worried about myself; however, I will not subject my wife and soon to be born child to that sort of atmosphere. Until they actually start manning REAL security to eliminate this crap, I won't take my family members to the games.

I don't think I'm alone with these complaints and I think the new stadium should fix a lot of this. I completely agree with Sec11 that the 1988 ticket price excuse has run it's course.

While I am embarrased about fan attendance at Card games, usually one of the first things Redskins fans point out about us, I can sympathize with some reasons why people don't go.

Go Cards!!!

 

[MadCardDisease]

I'm fun to sit next to. I promise. I do boo the bad fans that leave halfway though the third quarter, though.

Anyone will turn out for a consistent winner. Your team goes to the NFC Championship game for three or four straight years, you're not going to have a hard time selling tickets. On the other hand, do you think that the Bucs fans are just going to stop showing up because they got rid of two aging stars and had a bad season? I don't think so. Has consistent success over years and years helped the Suns limp through some mediocre seasons? Um... no.

Denver has it right. Phoenix fans are horrible and probably the biggest bandwagoners in the country.

They deserved to be booed. No one should leave early!

What I'm saying is we need some tradition of winning to get the loyality going amoung the average NFL fans.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The only team in the state that has consistently drawn well over the past twenty years is Arizona basketball. If the Cardinals ever reached a level of success like that you can count on fans to come out. But just getting to the playoffs every few years will not help. The DBacks, arguably one of the most succesful MLB franchises over the past half decade, couldn't even sell out a playoff game until they reached the World Series. I remember the Suns having to go out and sell playoff tickets at malls the day before a key playoff matchup against the Kings. It's the West Coast, get used to it. The Chargers and the Raiders can't sell out in tough times either.

Kerouac? Junior Spivey? I was more upset about losing Chris Capuano, Lyle Overbay, and Jorge De La Rosa than losing Spivey and his overpaid unproduction. Between him and your thing for Adrian Wilson it makes me think you have a soft spot for flashy, unproductive players.

 

[Rivercard]

I may get flamed here but I find going to SDS an enjoyable experience partly because the crowd isn't overwhelming. But the empty stadium does look silly on TV.

 

[justAndy]

....

i don't care about the new school, front runnin', bandwagon jumping CHUMPS - I'll be at every game - might miss one of the preseason ones.
Being a Cardinal fan is like religion - you can't explain it to a non believer.
It's a curse...

 

[RedStorm]

Again, like it did in 98?

If I remember correctly we barely made the playoffs in 98, but we did make it. (Jackie kicking a FG). And, I do remember that there was some momentum building up for fan support. Especially beating the Cowboys.

But then the wheels fell off the next year because we did not keep our core players on the team. The front office screwed up and with it whatever momentum they had for fan support.

Hopefully Green can turn this team around and, if so, momentum will start to build again. It takes time.

There is nothing more stupid then paying for something that is broken.

This team has been broken and hopefully Green can get it fixed. I am more optimistic about this year than the past.

 

[AZCB34]

So many excuses. Why can't more people admit the truth?

How many sellouts were there in '99? After the playoff season? Besides the MNF game when corporations had to buy the entire north upper deck so people could see the game on TV and Phoenix would be spared the indignity of failing to sell out a Monday Night national broadcast?

What was the last Sunday night Cardinals game to sellout?

There were not going to be sellouts in 99 even after the excitement of 98. Do you not understand this? There was no consistent winning yet and they proved that in 99 as well. If they had won again in 99 I would be willing to bet 00 would have had much bigger crowds.

Who the hell cares about MNF or Sunday Night when the team sucks? The PHoenix sports fans have spoken and have said what they expect. They will not put out the money for a crap product even if it is MNF or SNF. Were Falcon fans tripping over themselves trying to see them play when they blew? Nope. Owner had to heavily discount upper deck tix and they had Vick calling (begging) people to show up. Very few teams can sustain crowds if they suck for years on end...doesn't matter who it is. If the Bucs (your example) keep losing year after year, I guarantee you they will suddenly be fighting to avoid blackouts.

So fine, when the Cards start winning, I hope all of you get what you want and no bandwagon fans show up. The team will hopefully be winning and the stadium will be half empty (still making us look stupid) and all that money the team could be earning off the bandwagon fans in order to continue their winning ways will be lost. Yippee!!

 

[RedStorm]

There were not going to be sellouts in 99 even after the excitement of 98. Do you not understand this? There was no consistent winning yet and they proved that in 99 as well. If they had won again in 99 I would be willing to bet 00 would have had much bigger crowds.

Who the hell cares about MNF or Sunday Night when the team sucks? The PHoenix sports fans have spoken and have said what they expect. They will not put out the money for a crap product even if it is MNF or SNF. Were Falcon fans tripping over themselves trying to see them play when they blew? Nope. Owner had to heavily discount upper deck tix and they had Vick calling (begging) people to show up. Very few teams can sustain crowds if they suck for years on end...doesn't matter who it is. If the Bucs (your example) keep losing year after year, I guarantee you they will suddenly be fighting to avoid blackouts.

So fine, when the Cards start winning, I hope all of you get what you want and no bandwagon fans show up. The team will hopefully be winning and the stadium will be half empty (still making us look stupid) and all that money the team could be earning off the bandwagon fans in order to continue their winning ways will be lost. Yippee!!

Every die hard fan of any team started by hoppin on a wagon. They just stick around. Don't despise those who wish to join later. You have to start somewhere.

 

[kerouac9]

There were not going to be sellouts in 99 even after the excitement of 98. Do you not understand this? There was no consistent winning yet and they proved that in 99 as well. If they had won again in 99 I would be willing to bet 00 would have had much bigger crowds.

Who the hell cares about MNF or Sunday Night when the team sucks? The PHoenix sports fans have spoken and have said what they expect. They will not put out the money for a crap product even if it is MNF or SNF. Were Falcon fans tripping over themselves trying to see them play when they blew? Nope. Owner had to heavily discount upper deck tix and they had Vick calling (begging) people to show up. Very few teams can sustain crowds if they suck for years on end...doesn't matter who it is. If the Bucs (your example) keep losing year after year, I guarantee you they will suddenly be fighting to avoid blackouts.

So fine, when the Cards start winning, I hope all of you get what you want and no bandwagon fans show up. The team will hopefully be winning and the stadium will be half empty (still making us look stupid) and all that money the team could be earning off the bandwagon fans in order to continue their winning ways will be lost. Yippee!!

Please. Were Jets fans still selling out when the Jets sucked... like last season? Uh... yeah. What about the 'Skins? They've pretty much blown the last two years, but no games were blacked out in D.C. Are the seats at Ford Field embarssingly empty despite the universal crap-itude of the Lions? No. What about when they stunk during the Barry Sanders era? Oh, sellouts. Cleveland? They stink, but you can see their games on television.

It's okay that Phoenix has a horrible, horrible fan base. Personally, if I were the Bidwills, I would have moved to San Antonio or Alabama. Someplace where people understand the value of an NFL franchise. I just wish that more Phoenicians would cop to it.

 

[chickenhead]

Honestly, I think a lot of critics (both in Arizona and out) are lacking some perspective - namely, not why Arizona's ticket sales are bad, but why others' are good. True, Phoenix is the fifth largest metro area in the country. But population alone is only one factor. The corporate community in Phoenix is disproportionately small given its size. With a ton of corporately-purchased seats, other cities have a rotating cast of fans, clients, and visitors using them. Having a full house of people who are only attending a few games (and oftentimes for free, mind you) is a lot different than being much more reliant on private citizens subscribing and attending almost the whole schedule themselves. Other cities have huge swathes of empty seats that are never mentioned because they are sold. Furthermore, I would imagine that the walkup crowd in Phoenix is not so different from other "car" cities, though location and stadium age plays a part in that.

Lastly, even though I'm a die-hard Card fan and follow the team in thin and thinner, I will never buy the ciriticism from self-righteous fans or sportswriters who claim that the community owes an awful team loyalty for the privilege of hosting the product. The Cardinals have been awful almost the entire time in Arizona. Seriously, the entire highlight reel is composed of beating San Diego once to make the playoffs and beating Dallas once in the playoffs. That's it. I don't see Coyotes fans jumping all over Hawks fans because they can't fill the United Center with corporate support, countless playoff appearances, and a history dating back to the Original 6. Anyone who knew what ownership has done there would understand. Anyway, that's my rant for now.

 

[CardShark]

I seem to remember alot of empty stadiums around the league when their teams were not good. The ones that do have consistent sellouts and waiting lists have long histories of winning. Teams haven't been moved around the country for no reason.

The Cardinals have suffered with an identity issue. They were mired in their long history and never really looked at as an Arizona team except by the devout, albeit small fan base. People see them as a transplant because they refused to let go of their past and make a transformation into a team reborn. They won't be accepted until the ways of the past are set aside and they make that transformation. A change in the leadership is a major step in the right direction. Michael Bidwill is the catalyst that's transforming this team in front of our very eyes. The way business is conducted is not the "same old Cardinals". Hiring Dennis Green is not in the mold of the "same old Cardinals". Instilling a winning attitude will alleviate the stench of the "same old Cardinals". Changing uniforms will eliminate the visual reminder of the "same old Cardinals". A stadium of their own vanquishes the nomadic perception of the "same old Cardinals".

The Rams had to undergo this transformation when they went to St. Louis. The just did it as soon as they got there. Bill Bidwill wasn't willing because of his love for history and tradition. 10 years later the Cards are finally getting their transformation into being Arizonas team. Is it too late? I don't think so. Winning and a visible dedication to winning will win out in the end. A new vision on the field of our new state-of-the-art air conditioned stadium to go along the new vision in the administration will lead to a revision by Arizonas football fans. They will accept the Cardinals as their own.

When they look back after the next 10 years fans will wish they had purchased season tickets before the Cardinals had completed their transformation so they wouldn't have to be on this damn waiting list.

 

[Mulli]

Please. Were Jets fans still selling out when the Jets sucked... like last season? Uh... yeah. What about the 'Skins? They've pretty much blown the last two years, but no games were blacked out in D.C. Are the seats at Ford Field embarssingly empty despite the universal crap-itude of the Lions? No. What about when they stunk during the Barry Sanders era? Oh, sellouts. Cleveland? They stink, but you can see their games on television.

It's okay that Phoenix has a horrible, horrible fan base. Personally, if I were the Bidwills, I would have moved to San Antonio or Alabama. Someplace where people understand the value of an NFL franchise. I just wish that more Phoenicians would cop to it.

So, instead of accepting the stadium we got them, they should have moved to Alabama? I can see Los Angeles, Portland, or San Antonio if we didn't approve the stadium. but Alabama?

How bad can the fan base be, if the Phoenix area voted to pay for a new stadium?