Blame D'Antoni

[Covert Rain]

I think you're absolutely wrong and just trying to find a scapegoat to make you feel better. But, to each his own.

I don't need a scapegoat and blaming the coach for this loss doesn't make me feel any better. In fact it makes me feel worse because I know we should still be playing. This isn't the first time the coach has been blasted for not making adjustments so it's not like what I am saying is anything new. So your right....to each his own.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't need a scapegoat and blaming the coach for this loss doesn't make me feel any better. In fact it makes me feel worse because I know we should still be playing. This isn't the first time the coach has been blasted for not making adjustments so it's not like what I am saying is anything new. So your right....to each his own.

So you really think we should still be playing? That's pretty interesting, because I don't think we should be playing at all. I think the Clippers should have eliminated us. I'm certainly glad we got this far, no question, and I think we COULD have beaten the Mavericks if the stars had aligned right, but in reality, with this team the way it was constructed in these playoffs, it was a miracle we got this far.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Let's see. Averaging 40 min. a game running non-stop for 20 games in 40 days maybe a factor for fatigue even for Marion, not to mention Nash.

You might say DA had no choice but playing these guys the way he did. I'd agree. But how did we get into this dilemma in the first place?

What other options did D'Antoni have against the Mavs? Was he going to give significant minutes to both Burke and Grant.. or Skita for that matter? Those players would have been better suited against the Spurs .. or quite possibly the Heat... however.... against a team that can be explosive as the Mavs.. no way possible at all.......

Marion and Nash wouldnt have had to log those minutes if Bell was at full-strength.. wasnt slowed down.. which caused him to commit some of those soft fouls... or being unable to convert those 3-pointers.... Also.. that would have given TT lesser minutes..and he wouldnt have made all those fouls in such a brief period of time.... That would have enabled Diaw to get wide-open.........

Just cannot blame D'Antoni for what ultimately turned the whole series around.. Once Bell sustained that injury and it was apparent he wouldnt be even at 50%... it was all over... Of course.. Im not blaming Bell for anything since he was soo heroic to return.. showed so much desire.. injected necessary energy and determination......

All of this was a huge domino-effect... but .. the Suns mow know more than ever what weaknesses they have and work extremely hard this offseason make those adjustments.. but no need to tear the team apart... Injuries was the major role obviously and I just believe that this time will be magnificent in '06-'07.. I can just sense it.......

 

[Covert Rain]

So you really think we should still be playing? That's pretty interesting, because I don't think we should be playing at all. I think the Clippers should have eliminated us. I'm certainly glad we got this far, no question, and I think we COULD have beaten the Mavericks if the stars had aligned right, but in reality, with this team the way it was constructed in these playoffs, it was a miracle we got this far.

I never said I wasn't glad they were not this far. I never said they couldn't have been eliminated earlier. What I said was that more adjustments could have been made to play on Monday.

In fact, if you want to go back to the other series I can apply the same train of thought. The coach's strong suit is not making adjustments and that almost cost us the first two rounds as well.

Having said that, I still think this was a great run and a huge accomplishment without Amare. However, that doesn't mean there were things that they couldn't have done better and you just ignore that.

 

[Chaplin]

Having said that, I still think this was a great run and a huge accomplishment without Amare. However, that doesn't mean there were things that they couldn't have done better and you just ignore that.

Huh? The only adjustment you mentioned was Kurt Thomas, and I didn't ignore that. You haven't said what other adjustments could have helped us to beat the Dallas Mavericks in a 7-game series. Mainly because there aren't any. The better team won. Period. With Amare, the results might have been different, but for now, the better team won and there is no adjustments that D'Antoni could make on top of what he's already done to change that.

 

[cly2tw]

All of this was a huge domino-effect... but .. the Suns mow know more than ever what weaknesses they have and work extremely hard this offseason make those adjustments.. but no need to tear the team apart... Injuries was the major role obviously and I just believe that this time will be magnificent in '06-'07.. I can just sense it.......

Exactly, but more often than not those domino-effects are inevitable, meaning it's likely even sure to occur one way or another. And this has something to do how the Suns style is and how they played in the regular season. One just can't single out one thing and nail it as the reason why we lost. Yet, the owner/management/coach do share some blame. Also, I'm not quite sure that we'd have had better chance had Amare been available this season. We might not have had the revelation for Diaw and LB with Amare dominating the game this season. So there is also some blessing in disguise for that. But with him coming back and the team with great confidence, I'm looking forward to embrace Suns dominance for the next couple of years!

 

[Covert Rain]

Huh? The only adjustment you mentioned was Kurt Thomas, and I didn't ignore that. You haven't said what other adjustments could have helped us to beat the Dallas Mavericks in a 7-game series. Mainly because there aren't any. The better team won. Period. With Amare, the results might have been different, but for now, the better team won and there is no adjustments that D'Antoni could make on top of what he's already done to change that.

Uh..no. I said getting him in was "a" adjustment. Coming up with other plays is another. Taking a different strategy DURING a game versus waiting until the next is another. He was blasted last year for doing the same thing. So there are 3 right there.

So I disagree. There were things they could have done better and it sent them home early and perhaps wasted an opportunity at the finals.

 

[Chaplin]

Uh..no. I said getting him in was "a" adjustment. Coming up with other plays is another. Taking a different strategy DURING a game versus waiting until the next is another. He was blasted last year for doing the same thing. So there are 3 right there.

So I disagree. There were things they could have done better and it sent them home early and perhaps wasted an opportunity at the finals.

Well, this is certainly argued out except I'll say that I disagree with you. We have done the same things that won us games throughout the playoffs and in the regular season. I disagree that D'Antoni should be blamed. For the Suns, there is one strategy: RUN. We tried to do it, but the Mavs took us away from that. What else is there except to try to continue to run and then run a half-court offense? What do you want him to do? Tell the guys to become the Pistons?

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Exactly, but more often than not those domino-effects are inevitable, meaning it's likely even sure to occur one way or another. And this has something to do how the Suns style is and how they played in the regular season. One just can't single out one thing and nail it as the reason why we lost. Yet, the owner/management/coach do share some blame. Also, I'm not quite sure that we'd have had better chance had Amare been available this season. We might not have had the revelation for Diaw and LB with Amare dominating the game this season. So there is also some blessing in disguise for that. But with him coming back and the team with great confidence, I'm looking forward to embrace Suns dominance for the next couple of years!

Perhaps it rests some on the since departed BC for not acquiring some more depth throughout the season, however, I must applaud the Suns in signing TT when they did.....

It's just unfortunate that no fore-sight/hind-sight..whatever can be applied here in this case... Who would have envisioned that such an integral player such as Bell would have gone down like he did and be hampered more than perhaps many are actually aware..... Then.. you have 2 in-experienced players such as Diaw and Barbosa who are not accustomed to playing in crucial minutes when so much is at stake.......

I somewhat agree with the blessing in disguise...however.. Diaw was going to have some major minutes even with a healthy Amare because D'Antoni was impressed with Boris's versatility... I wouldnt be shocked to see Diaw coming in as a PG next season whenever Nash needs to rest.... then.. Barbosa could be used as a SG or a small SF in some situations....

If the Suns need to become BIG.. then.... KT would be brought in as a C with Amare at PF... Diaw at PG... Bell at SG and Marion at SF.. would mix-up the opposition quite a bit... they wouldnt know how to counter the Suns......

TT might become next year's version of Jimmy Jackson if they were to keep him on the roster... Jimmy Jackon obviously provided a much needed lift last post-season when JJ went down......but when this season began.. there was essentially no need......

When Amare and KT come back next season.. I just dont see how TT will get any minutes.. he's pretty much a one-dimensional player.. or lacks in shot-blocking and other areas that the Suns are in dire need of........

Again.. it should be an intriguing offseason... but I know many of us are basing a lot on pure emotion at this time, but... just think... we were 2 games away from the finals w/out our franchise player.. our heart-and-soul player limited beyond belief... but... next year.. there shouldnt be any excuse at all.. none... if the Suns dont win the Finals in '06-'07.. then its time to tear the team apart and start over....

 

[Covert Rain]

Well, this is certainly argued out except I'll say that I disagree with you. We have done the same things that won us games throughout the playoffs and in the regular season. I disagree that D'Antoni should be blamed. For the Suns, there is one strategy: RUN. We tried to do it, but the Mavs took us away from that. What else is there except to try to continue to run and then run a half-court offense? What do you want him to do? Tell the guys to become the Pistons?

Well actually during the season we had rebounding and Kurt Thomas doing a good job. I didn't say he was all to blame. After all he can't shoot for the team. However, the things he had control over he didn't seem to do well (i.e. make adjustments).

They could still run with Thomas. In fact, even if they couldn't the Suns were not running anyway. Dallas made them a half court team. So if that is the case Kurt was perfect. Kurt is probably more acclimated to the half court game then anyone on the team.

The Suns should have been prepared to run more half court sets if the coach payed any attention to what happen last year in the playoffs...lets alone this year. So if you know running is not working, you go to plan B. Notice how both the Clippers and Mavs could pretty much play both stiles?

 

[outofcontrol]

The Suns have been fading in the 4th quarter through most of the series against Dallas due to fatigue and foul trouble. To say that KT or Grant couldn’t have made a contribution is just silly, they are both veterans and 4 to 5 minutes of play out of one or both of them could have saved a foul on Boris, Tim Thomas or Shawn and allowed us to play aggressive defense in the fourth quarter when we needed it.

I keep hearing the same stupid comments on staying with the same partial team to beat a full and deep team like Dallas. They wore us out because we didn’t use more of the talent on our bench.

 

[jibikao]

I think coach D has done a great job in the playoffs this season.

The only thing I had a little problem with is his use of bench players. Yes, we are very short handed but we just basically ran ourselves to death with heavy mins. The bench players suck but you have to let them play a bit more.

House wasn't injured, was he? He didn't even play at all. If he truly sucks this bad, then there is no need to keep him? Amare is coming back next season and I doubt we'll need House to score +10 each night with his inconsistent jumpers.

As for James Jones, I don't mind keeping him. He has size and some speed in him. When he puts all his effort on defense, it's not that bad.

 

[m323]

I wouldnt blame the coach for the losses. I know we had a injured and depleted team, but while at the game the only real person that should get any blame, if there is blame to be brought onto a single person is Nash.

You are our two time mvp and the lifeline of the team. You play the position that controls the tempo and feel of the game. When we go into our slumps he should have taken over, as a mvp would do. Dirk did it in game 5 when they were down 77-70, and that is what we needed nash to do tonight...to carry the team to a game 7.

He didnt give us the performance that was needed. I understand he was tired and has been playing a lot, but 2 time mvp's in elimination game at home need to step it up when the team goes cold and is looking at them to get them through it.

 

[jibikao]

I wouldnt blame the coach for the losses. I know we had a injured and depleted team, but while at the game the only real person that should get any blame, if there is blame to be brought onto a single person is Nash.

You are our two time mvp and the lifeline of the team. You play the position that controls the tempo and feel of the game. When we go into our slumps he should have taken over, as a mvp would do. Dirk did it in game 5 when they were down 77-70, and that is what we needed nash to do tonight...to carry the team to a game 7.

He didnt give us the performance that was needed. I understand he was tired and has been playing a lot, but 2 time mvp's in elimination game at home need to step it up when the team goes cold and is looking at them to get them through it.

The only problem is (from what I saw) Mavs are determined to stop Nash from scoring. Every time Nash penetrated, there was always people stepping up to stop Nash's penetration (with Josh Howard). And what do you do when you draw defense to you, you pass the ball out.

The whole team REFUSED to shoot in 2nd half. Nash passed out so many shots that he probably could have taken. Then TT went so cold from outside. Then Barbosa wanted to drive or lose control. And then Bell really didn't hit anything until the very last 1-2mins. OH, and Marion loves standing on that 3pt line.

I was hoping Nash could do more but the truth is he was/is tired and he is not a scoring PG. He can score but he is not AI or Arenas. Nash did score some layups in the end because Mavs' defense was setup to stop our shooters (which was their old strategy "let Nash shoot").

 

[Ryanwb]

yo steeldog, was this the first NBA game you've ever watched or what?

 

[jibikao]

Well actually during the season we had rebounding and Kurt Thomas doing a good job. I didn't say he was all to blame. After all he can't shoot for the team. However, the things he had control over he didn't seem to do well (i.e. make adjustments).

They could still run with Thomas. In fact, even if they couldn't the Suns were not running anyway. Dallas made them a half court team. So if that is the case Kurt was perfect. Kurt is probably more acclimated to the half court game then anyone on the team.

The Suns should have been prepared to run more half court sets if the coach payed any attention to what happen last year in the playoffs...lets alone this year. So if you know running is not working, you go to plan B. Notice how both the Clippers and Mavs could pretty much play both stiles?

The problem is KT did not come back in time for adjustments. I am pretty sure he is very out of shape. We only had 1 day to rest in between and we just traveled back from Dallas. I really don't think we had the time to make big adjustments like this. Of course we were hoping both KT and Grant could play more but they were just not ready (although 1-5mins of playing time won't hurt if coach D wanted to try).

 

[m323]

jibikao- I understand what you are saying. I just feel like when you are the leader, 2 time mvp, and the one everyone looks to for answers...you find a way to get the job done.

It also kills me to hear nash at the press conference talking up dirk and the mav's and saying he is rooting for them. Screw that. They are our #1 enemy now. I hate everything about the mavs after this series and I think pro players should feel the same way about the opposition.

Now I am rooting for the heat. Nothing would be worse than seeing dirk and cuban holding the golden statue

 

[Covert Rain]

yo steeldog, was this the first NBA game you've ever watched or what?

No Dog...you?

 

[jibikao]

jibikao- I understand what you are saying. I just feel like when you are the leader, 2 time mvp, and the one everyone looks to for answers...you find a way to get the job done.

It also kills me to hear nash at the press conference talking up dirk and the mav's and saying he is rooting for them. Screw that. They are our #1 enemy now. I hate everything about the mavs after this series and I think pro players should feel the same way about the opposition.

Now I am rooting for the heat. Nothing would be worse than seeing dirk and cuban holding the golden statue

One thing, I did not think Nash played well after game 4. It's more than clear that he couldn't even shoot sometimes with his back problem, let alone putting Josh Howard on him (who is Mav's best defender). Nash really ran out of gas and I think the whole team did too except Diaw.

I was hoping Nash could look for his shots more in early 4th to set the tone but that never happened. My friend (who knows nothing about basketball) watched 4th quarter with me and he said "why do they pass so much?" He said Mavs looked like they want to win more while we were struggling to find "who wants to take the shot". In this regard, I think Nash failed. He should have taken more initiatives but Mavs did do a good job on Nash. Whenever Nash penetrated, the defense was tight as hell with Dirk inside (he is 7-foot tall). This leaves many of our guys open but we were cold and hesitated too much. Again, the whole team just couldn't respond in the end. Nash is not a scoring machine like Kobe.


And no, I won't root for Mavs. In fact, I won't even watch any games now until next season.

 

[JWF]

Blaming dantoni is a bit of a stretch. Alot of people touched on it already, but we when you have 3 key starters out due to injury, and a wore down team with no bench.....you can only do so much.

THe only thing i have against Dantoni is his lack of defensive emphasis. I think he tries sometimes in that area, but not enough for the team to consistently play well in that area. Now I know Kurt Thomas going down hurt us defensively, but we still have to many mental lapses. I hope he makes a real effort this training camp and preseason to improve the defensive play.

 

[Errntknght]

In fact, D'Antoni made terrific adjustments during the Lakers and Clippers series - I was surprised and impressed with that.

I was hoping he'd give KT some minutes, too, but heck, the Mavs might have countered with Dampier and had a bigger advantage.

I have a bigger nit to pick than that and that is that you just don't run Steve Nash into the ground the way he did - you play House enough minutes to rest Nash an adequate amount and take your lumps. It could have meant that we lose to the Lakers which would have been a bitter pill to swallow, but that is the right course to take. Because by not resting him enough the chances of Nash playing like we need him to dwindle to almost zero over the course of 4 seven game series. Whether we lose in first round or the third or fourth is not a big deal.

You needn't elaborate on how House performed, I watched all the games and I saw it. But the fact that D'Antoni didn't have much faith in him might well have been a contributing factor. As the team was constructed it was a necessity that EH contribute, and so you play him.

An even better course of action would have been to get a backup PG.

 

[cepstrum]

Anyone that blames Dantoni for the loss to the Mavs is flat out ignorant. The guy took a team that many believed wouldnt make it to the playoffs at all to the western conference finals. He has people believing that you dont need to slow the game down to win. You can win fast. He may have made some substitution mistakes, but that was not the reason we lost. The reason we lost was that we were undermanned against a very good team and we ran out of gas.

 

[Joe Mama]

I have a bigger nit to pick than that and that is that you just don't run Steve Nash into the ground the way he did - you play House enough minutes to rest Nash an adequate amount and take your lumps. It could have meant that we lose to the Lakers which would have been a bitter pill to swallow, but that is the right course to take. Because by not resting him enough the chances of Nash playing like we need him to dwindle to almost zero over the course of 4 seven game series. Whether we lose in first round or the third or fourth is not a big deal.

You needn't elaborate on how House performed, I watched all the games and I saw it. But the fact that D'Antoni didn't have much faith in him might well have been a contributing factor. As the team was constructed it was a necessity that EH contribute, and so you play him.

An even better course of action would have been to get a backup PG.

Surely you don't really believe that sentence I put in bold. There is a huge difference in losing later in the playoffs. First of all it means a lot more money which makes Sarver happy and probably less likely to start chopping salary. If he can see how close this team is he might be willing to spend a little extra to get it there.

Even though I'm sure everybody is exhausted I guarantee the players feel great about next year. The locals are excited about this Phoenix Suns team.

Joe

 

[jibikao]

I really hope the team understands that next year IS the year. If they can't do it next year, I really don't know when they can capture the chance. I really thought this is the year... sigh.

Yes, I am in a depressed mode. Mavs was thought to be a team that couldn't make it. Now Suns IS the team that just can't make it. Sad... With Spurs getting older, there is no reason why this team can't make it to the Final. Somehow I think there will be another curse next year. Maybe Nash is injured... or Amare re-injures his knee(s).

 

[Treesquid PhD]

jibikao- I understand what you are saying. I just feel like when you are the leader, 2 time mvp, and the one everyone looks to for answers...you find a way to get the job done.

It also kills me to hear nash at the press conference talking up dirk and the mav's and saying he is rooting for them. Screw that. They are our #1 enemy now. I hate everything about the mavs after this series and I think pro players should feel the same way about the opposition.

Now I am rooting for the heat. Nothing would be worse than seeing dirk and cuban holding the golden statue

Dirk is Nash's best friend. When I play basketball with my best bud I try to kick his arse and humiliate him on the court but when it's over and he beats me I don't hate him, lol.