Blame this mess on who?

[WuRaider]

As much as we want to believe in Nash and Grant as the veteran generals, the play reflects a lack of leadership.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/12/30/...xe/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Two sources sitting close enough to hear Nash's comments independently confirmed the statement he made to Alvin Gentry but was clearly directed at the official: "I'm going to f*****g punch one of these motherf*****s in the face."

"It's just a little bit frustrating when you come in the locker room and people are talking about the offense," Gortat began. "That's not the way you're going to win NBA games. I don't know if it's just me, or maybe I'm just different, but I came from a team where everybody's competing and trying to do the stuff that coach is saying. We're just totally changing our rotations, changing our stuff that we set before the game. We're not playing hard enough and I've just got to tell you, there's a lot, a lot of work in front of us. The positive thing is? It can't be worse."

"I think we've just got to be more serious about everything that we do," Gortat said. "We've got a lot of young guys on the team. A lot of potential, but a lot of young guys who don't know how it is to be on top and play at a high level. It's not only focus on the game, it's also focus on the practice. When you come through that door, that's the time to lock in and get ready for the game or practice. It can't happen where you're coming in and doing different things. We've got to read the scouting report, which guy likes to do what, and we've just got to learn it.

To all the Amare haters, you happy now?

 

[sunsfan88]

That was the most honest and straightforward assessment of the team's defensive struggles.

I'm glad we have at least one person who gives a damn about playing defense and knows the importance of it. Gortat needs to start leading the defense and get in the face of the players who don't execute defensively (unless its Nash or Carter)

Who are these young guys he talks about that don't play seriously and aren't putting in the effort defensively? He says "young players" so it ain't Hill, Nash or Carter. I seriously wanna know who these idiots are that aren't serious on the defensive end. All of em needs to get traded or released. We have enough offense but 0 defense.

I'm glad to know that at least he is speaking the truth. Gortat has the right to talk cause he rebounded almost every miss that occurred when he was playing. Also got a few blocks and played excellent man-to-man defense for the game.

 

[cly2tw]

everybody who wanted Amare gone at market price without matching!

 

[Trifecta]

I'm not entirely sure who to blame the mess on at this point -- sounds like there's plenty of blame to go around -- but what I do know is that I like Gortat for coming out and saying that. We should make him a co-captain, not to mention start him.

 

[slinslin]

Management being too scared to accept 2-3 lottery years to rebuild a championship contender.

Every champion outside of Detroit was carried by their draft picks.

After losing Amare we should have acquired young talented players with upside such as Beasley and draft picks instead of signing a bunch of mediocre players to long term deals to desperately stay a fringe playoff team.

Mediocre old teams are much harder to watch than teams like the Clippers who suck but are improving and have young exciting talent that you want to watch.

 

[Chaplin]

Management being too scared to accept 2-3 lottery years to rebuild a championship contender.

Every champion outside of Detroit was carried by their draft picks.

After losing Amare we should have acquired young talented players with upside such as Beasley and draft picks instead of signing a bunch of mediocre players to long term deals to desperately stay a fringe playoff team.

Mediocre old teams are much harder to watch than teams like the Clippers who suck but are improving and have young exciting talent that you want to watch.

Not true.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm not entirely sure who to blame the mess on at this point -- sounds like there's plenty of blame to go around -- but what I do know is that I like Gortat for coming out and saying that. We should make him a co-captain, not to mention start him.

Yea I liked that too. He at least has the balls to man up and say whats wrong and why its that way.

He played well too. Definitely needs to become a starter and Frye needs to go to the bench cause Dragic sucks without him.

 

[slinslin]

Not true.

Yes true..

Miami - Wade
Lakers - Kobe
Spurs - Duncan, Ginobili, Parker
Bulls - Jordan and basically you can count Pippen as well
Rockets - Olajuwon
Boston - Pierce, Perkins, Rondo and traded their lottery picks for Garnett and Allen to add to what was their already

Who else won it in the last 20 years? Nobody.

Who were the other final teams?

New York - Ewing
Mavericks - Nowitzki
Orlando - Howard
Orlando - Penny, Shaq
Utah - Stockton, Malone
Seattle - Payton, Kemp

Even on the Suns 92 team you could basically count Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Dumas etc

Now even if you go through the contenders in recent years..

Rockets - Yao
Suns - Amare, Nash, Marion and basically Joe Johnson
Blazers - Roy, Aldridge
New Orleans - Paul, West
Utah - Williams, Millsap, Kirilenko
Sacramento - Peja and Williams


The Pistons team with Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince is the lone exception. Sacramento acquiring Chris Webber and being conference finalist if you argue might be another exception but they drafted key players like Peja and Jason Williams too.

I can't be bothered to go back further but no matter what you say it is obvious that all those "great" teams are carried by their own draft picks and generally those key players were lottery picks.

Players like Kareem, Shaq, Lebron, Webber or Barkley changing teams happens every 5 years once maybe.

 

[Kolo]

Management being too scared to accept 2-3 lottery years to rebuild a championship contender.

Every champion outside of Detroit was carried by their draft picks.

After losing Amare we should have acquired young talented players with upside such as Beasley and draft picks instead of signing a bunch of mediocre players to long term deals to desperately stay a fringe playoff team.

Mediocre old teams are much harder to watch than teams like the Clippers who suck but are improving and have young exciting talent that you want to watch.

Yep.

 

[AfroSuns]

The way Jrue was draining shots after shots from almost the same position yesterday was embarrassing. Nash has gotten extremely worse on defense and his offensive output cant make up for it due to lack of a good finisher like Amare.
There is no doubt now, that Amare did more for Nash than Nash did for him.

 

[elindholm]

There is no doubt now, that Amare did more for Nash than Nash did for him.

Especially in the season that Stoudemire didn't play.

 

[carey]

Especially in the season that Stoudemire didn't play.

QFT.

 

[carey]

Yes true..

Miami - Wade
Lakers - Kobe
Spurs - Duncan, Ginobili, Parker
Bulls - Jordan and basically you can count Pippen as well
Rockets - Olajuwon
Boston - Pierce, Perkins, Rondo and traded their lottery picks for Garnett and Allen to add to what was their already

I feel like you're contradicting yourself a bit. Outside of the Spurs, there are no teams that have relied on drafting alone. A huge trade or FA signing is almost always needed to go from mediocre / good to great.

Kobe paired with a FA signing of Shaq wins titles. Shaq is traded to a team with Wade and they win a title, while L.A. goes into mediocrity until.. they trade for Paul Gasol. Shaq leaves Miami and they fall back to mediocrity, until.. they FA sign LBJ and Bosh. All Boston had was Pierce until they, wait for it, traded for Ray and Kevin. The Suns were average with Amare until.. signed Steve Nash.

Now, if you want to make the argument that you need one good draft pick and then you can make your moves to compliment him... I can see it. But to say that it's built on draft picks singularly I'm not so sure.

 

[Chaplin]

I feel like you're contradicting yourself a bit. Outside of the Spurs, there are no teams that have relied on drafting alone. A huge trade or FA signing is almost always needed to go from mediocre / good to great.

Kobe paired with a FA signing of Shaq wins titles. Shaq is traded to a team with Wade and they win a title, while L.A. goes into mediocrity until.. they trade for Paul Gasol. Shaq leaves Miami and they fall back to mediocrity, until.. they FA sign LBJ and Bosh. All Boston had was Pierce until they, wait for it, traded for Ray and Kevin. The Suns were average with Amare until.. signed Steve Nash.

Now, if you want to make the argument that you need one good draft pick and then you can make your moves to compliment him... I can see it. But to say that it's built on draft picks singularly I'm not so sure.

+1000

 

[TucsonDevil]

I can't wait for the day Nash is traded - so this board can stop complaining about his defensive skill set. Seriously, Nash has been a Super Star and the sole reason why this team was a contender for as long as they have been. And anyone that can't see it, isn't watching close enough. Is he a liability defensively, yes, but without him, the Suns don't sniff the WCF.

Who is to blame? How about Father time? Ultimately, the problem right now is centered on the level of talent as a unit.

I do believe this latest trade will help, it just takes some time to get everyone on the same page. Clearly, they are not there yet.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I feel like you're contradicting yourself a bit. Outside of the Spurs, there are no teams that have relied on drafting alone. A huge trade or FA signing is almost always needed to go from mediocre / good to great.

Kobe paired with a FA signing of Shaq wins titles. Shaq is traded to a team with Wade and they win a title, while L.A. goes into mediocrity until.. they trade for Paul Gasol. Shaq leaves Miami and they fall back to mediocrity, until.. they FA sign LBJ and Bosh. All Boston had was Pierce until they, wait for it, traded for Ray and Kevin. The Suns were average with Amare until.. signed Steve Nash.

Now, if you want to make the argument that you need one good draft pick and then you can make your moves to compliment him... I can see it. But to say that it's built on draft picks singularly I'm not so sure.

Consider this - without a season ending injury to David Robinson, the Spurs would never have obtained Tim Duncan. There were not in a 'rebuilding' mode when Duncan was acquired - they were simply without their HOF Center for the season. So, they didn't rely on the Draft either - they just lucked out.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

I blame this mess on Amare's eye! And his knee!

 

[devilalum]

I blame this mess on Amare's eye! And his knee!

That makes about as much sense as anything else I've read. The Suns had to let Amare go. They don't have the kind of money necessary to take a chance on such a fragile player. Some of the moves the Suns have made since letting Amare go could be questioned but its not like they passed up on some great PF.

This team is in transition. It will probably get a lot uglier before it gets better.

Or not.

 

[BC867]

You can hear the frustration in Alvin Gentry's comments. He doesn't know if he is going to have a rotation of seven players or eleven. That's a public slap on the wrist to some players.

Negative managing doesn't suit him. He is a motivator and a good one.

The question is, with the unbalanced rosters given to him by the Front Office, can any positive thinking Coach be getting better results?

I don't think so. New face / same roster problems won't make this a better team.

 

[AfroSuns]

Especially in the season that Stoudemire didn't play.

Felton kinda reiterating what i posted earlier (and what some of us have been saying) on national TV, it is a no brainer; Nash misses Amare more.
You cant help but imagine if Amare had not missed that season of Nash 2nd MVP, the Suns coulda been in the finals and maybe win it all.

Btw, That was a bold statement by Felton on national TV.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Felton kinda reiterating what i posted earlier (and what some of us have been saying) on national TV, it is a no brainer; Nash misses Amare more.
You cant help but imagine if Amare had not missed that season of Nash 2nd MVP, the Suns coulda been in the finals and maybe win it all.

Btw, That was a bold statement by Felton on national TV.

I think it's a bit unfair to judge Nash of old based on Nash of today. Nash, despite claims of many on this board, simply isn't the player he was 4 years ago. He had moments of greatness last year but I think that season revealed that he was well into decline. Without Amare rising closer to his potential than any previous year, I think that slide would have been even more apparent.

Felton and Stat are turning in to a nice duo but much of that is because Amare is continuing to raise his game. On a good day for all involved, even now, he and Nash would still be more effective than the current Knicks duo. Rest Nash on the trail end of back to backs and keep his minutes under 25 per game and I suspect he'd still be a better running mate for Amare for the rest of this season. Like most great pairs, they each benefitted from the presence of the other and with the age difference it was inevitable that the younger player would surpass the older guy.

Steve

 

[dodie53]

a declining nash and a group of role players,
bad combination

 

[TBaslim]

Felton kinda reiterating what i posted earlier (and what some of us have been saying) on national TV, it is a no brainer; Nash misses Amare more.
You cant help but imagine if Amare had not missed that season of Nash 2nd MVP, the Suns coulda been in the finals and maybe win it all.

Btw, That was a bold statement by Felton on national TV.

Oh please. Let this inane debate rest. It's one of (but not the only) pointless go-rounds on this board.

Nash (when healthy) is a stud, with or without Amare.

Amare (when healthy) is a stud, with or without Nash.

They were best together for much of their careers. Neither is likely to reach the Conf Finals again without a new superstar running mate (or multiple ones given age and/or injury).

The Suns made a decision for down the road regarding Amare. They are paying the piper now. Good for Amare that he is playing great. We'll see in a few years if it was good for the Suns as well. It looks dead stupid now, but that was pretty much expected.

Oh, and Felton needs to ****. He should thank his lucky stars he wound up in NY playing in Mike D's PG friendly system and with Amare. Badmouthing Nash or anyone else gets him nowhere.

 

[Michael]

If you want to play the blame game, look no further than the Suns' management and finances. We had pieces to win multiple championships just a few years ago. Looking back at all the roster changes due to financial considerations make me sick.

JJ in 2005 - yeah, we got Dudley and Bell (plus Diaw for a year and later JRich) but doesn't compare to a franchise player that can create his shot, shot 48% from three as a spot-up shooter in his third season and was a good perimeter defender.

Kurt Thomas and two draftpicks... I still believe that we received two picks for Kurt! That has to go down as the worst "trade" in NBA history.

Two top-ten picks for cash considerations - enough said!

Amar'e - paying him 3 or 5 years... argh, there's always somebody taking big contracts of you even if bad comes to worse.

If Phoenix had an owner such as Cuban or somebody else who cares only about winning and has the financial means to pay luxury tax, we would still be contenders.

Rebuilding this team will takes ages or luck in the lottery. I'd say that we are the new Clippers, but that's not true as we don't have any young, exciting prospects. We had our fun and success for a few years, but this will always be remembered as a "what if" era of Suns basketball.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So blame it on Colangelo for not vetting a buyer for the team that would know what he is doing.