Booker Question

[Cheesebeef]

I'm curious who you think was the leader of that team? KJ is my favorite all time player, but I never really felt that he was the bonafide leader of any team he was on.

I thought he was the leader of the 88-91 Suns teams, but agree that Barkley was definitely the leader of the 92-95 run. And a good leader at that.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I'm curious who you think was the leader of that team? KJ is my favorite all time player, but I never really felt that he was the bonafide leader of any team he was on.

I believe it was KJ.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm curious who you think was the leader of that team? KJ is my favorite all time player, but I never really felt that he was the bonafide leader of any team he was on.

This. KJ isn't a typical leader either. He was neve known for being vocal on the floor and being a leader that way. Chambers was more of a leader than KJ was when they played together. KJ was more of a leader by example player IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I believe it was KJ.

you can’t lead from the bench, which is where KJ was a decent amount of time in every Chuck season, especially the Finals and the 1995 seasons where he only played in 49 of 82 games.

Those teams were Chuck’s teams, no question.

 

[Covert Rain]

you can’t lead from the bench, which is where KJ was a decent amount of time in every Chuck season, especially the Finals and the 1995 seasons where he only played in 49 of 82 games.

Those teams were Chuck’s teams, no question.

It predates that. Remember KJ had chronic hamstring problems for years that later they found out was because of an undiagnosed hernia he had probably for years upon years. He was in and out of the lineup for some time even predating the Barkley era.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This. KJ isn't a typical leader either. He was neve known for being vocal on the floor and being a leader that way. Chambers was more of a leader than KJ was when they played together. KJ was more of a leader by example player IMO.

Chambers wasnt a leader at all, IMO. He was a hired gun. KJ as the PG was the straw that stirred the drink. The guy you wanted the ball in crunch time, the conductor of the team.

the true leader of that team probably wasn’t any one player as much as it was Cotton as its coach.

 

[Chaplin]

Chambers wasnt a leader at all, IMO. He was a hired gun. KJ as the PG was the straw that stirred the drink. The guy you wanted the ball in crunch time, the conductor of the team.

the true leader of that team probably wasn’t any one player as much as it was Cotton as its coach.

This is where I fall on those pre Barkley teams.

 

[Covert Rain]

Chambers wasnt a leader at all, IMO. He was a hired gun. KJ as the PG was the straw that stirred the drink. The guy you wanted the ball in crunch time, the conductor of the team.

the true leader of that team probably wasn’t any one player as much as it was Cotton as its coach.

I disagree on that "at all" part. Chambers was very animated on the court with his team. He was constantly talking to his players. The opposite of KJ. KJ was very seldom animated about anything. The most animated I had ever seen him was when he dunked on the Dream. It was kind of big deal not only because of the dunk but because of his reaction after.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It predates that. Remember KJ had chronic hamstring problems for years that later they found out was because of an undiagnosed hernia he had probably for years upon years. He was in and out of the lineup for some time even predating the Barkley era.

This is a common misperception about KJ being in and out of the lineup
His entire career, which wasn’t really the case until the year Chuck came to
Town. He might have had problems that might have limited him a bit with the hammies but averaged starting 77 games out of 82 in his four years on the Suns pre-Barkley and never missed a playoff game except for one half against Portland in Game 6 of the WCF in 1990 that ultimately doomed the team. Can still remember being up 16 or so closing in on the end of the first half and KJ pulling that hammy on a drive and being devastated. Horny did what he could scoring 36 that night but we ran out of gas and.., as seems to be the Suns way, had to watch another team celebrate a trip to the Finals on our home court.

 

[1tinsoldier]

motivating the team on the court at the right times is what Barkley, KJ, Nash, and Kidd did.
making sound decisions. funneling frustration into rallies.

Booker just tries harder, but it too often turns into fouls, fumbles, technicals and forcing shots against double teams. and when something goes wrong (like a pass) it's a downer when he snaps at a teammate on the court (did it again a couple of weeks ago).

the key words are "too often."
not too often, perhaps, for a star.
but probably too often for a "franchise" player you hope will lead your team to a championship

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You are literally the only person who sees it this way. Enjoy being on the "Booker Isn't a Franchise Player" Island and making up reasons in your head that he isn't.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You are literally the only person who sees it this way. Enjoy being on the "Booker Isn't a Franchise Player" Island and making up reasons in your head that he isn't.

Booker might be a “Franchise player” for a middling playoff pretender type team, but I think jury is still out if he can be a “Franchise Player” for a title contender year in, year out. The straw that stirs this team’s drink is CP3, IMO. He can consistently control a game/team as the unquestioned leader all on his own, totally control at least half of the game and be able to do so either by scoring or initiating an entire offense successfully. Book has yet to prove that.

But he’s definitely taken steps forward towards that goal this year. Even from first half of the season to second half, I’ve noticed his passing ability has risen. The Lobs to Ayton have become much much more consistent and he’s added those laser bounce passes great passers make.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

CP3 wanted to come here because he sees Booker as the same type of worker and leader he is.

That's his words.

Take it for what you will. I am out of this frankly clown shoes conversation

 

[Cheesebeef]

CP3 wanted to come here because he sees Booker as the same type of worker and leader he is.

That's his words.

Take it for what you will. I am out of this frankly clown shoes conversation

Jesus. No need call people clowns because they simply disagree with you. No one insulted you for your take.

I mean, the insults could have come fast and furious for saying KJ was leader of legit MVP Barkley teams when he consistently missed 40% of every season. But they didn’t.

Repeated Crap like the above just leads to flame wars that have become all too common place here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Legit Franchise Players IMO 1st Tier (no particular order):

KD
Steph
Harden
LeBron
Giannis
Kawhi
Embiid
Jovic
Luka

Second tier (in general order):

Lillard
Kyrie
Paul George
Jimmy Butler
Anthony Davis

Third Tier Franchise Players (any of these could have arguments over each other but this is how I would rank them):

Ben Simmons
Tatum
Donovan Mitchell
CP3
Booker

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm curious who you think was the leader of that team? KJ is my favorite all time player, but I never really felt that he was the bonafide leader of any team he was on.

I disagree. I think KJ was the leader of the suns prior to Barkley’s acquisition. But Barkley was such a force of nature both in play and personality that I think kj just faded back.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I thought he was the leader of the 88-91 Suns teams, but agree that Barkley was definitely the leader of the 92-95 run. And a good leader at that.

Borg

 

[1tinsoldier]

Chris Paul made the all-star team before Booker and I just read another article suggesting Chris Paul for MVP candidate.
i believe mvp talk is overboard
but it is telling how the league values basketball IQ and leadership skills
and the difference in perceptions regarding Paul and Booker

i recall a raging debate centered on irrational loyalty for our prior coach of our last place team
-- the coach needs more time, the team needs stability, Booker can play point too, there are no good coach's available

2 years later the new coach is up for coach of the year and the Suns are a game out of the best record in the league

thank god management faced up to reality and flaws that some fans never will

 

[Chaplin]

I disagree. I think KJ was the leader of the suns prior to Barkley’s acquisition. But Barkley was such a force of nature both in play and personality that I think kj just faded back.

Like your brother said, I felt that Cotton really was the leader of that team. I just don't remember KJ being assertive like a Chris Paul or especially Steve Nash.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i agree that Booker just makes the franchise list, like he just made the All-Star list

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Like your brother said, I felt that Cotton really was the leader of that team. I just don't remember KJ being assertive like a Chris Paul or especially Steve Nash.

I don’t think many are as assertive as Paul and nash was leading a young club. I do recall kj gathering players and talking one on one with players on the court. But he was young also. The majority of leadership likely came from cotton, but I recall hearing that Corbin was a bit of a leader too. It’s not always the best player.

 

[Chaplin]

I don’t think many are as assertive as Paul and nash was leading a young club. I do recall kj gathering players and talking one on one with players on the court. But he was young also. The majority of leadership likely came from cotton, but I recall hearing that Corbin was a bit of a leader too. It’s not always the best player.

Corbin for sure, and maybe Jeff Hornacek.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Corbin for sure, and maybe Jeff Hornacek.

And Corbin was only 26. interesting thing about that team that people don’t realize or may not remember, but they were led by really young guards with KJ only 22 and Horny at 25. Also, their other starter Armon Gilliam was 23. And Majerle and Tim Perry were 22 and 21. Outside of Chambers and EJ, that was a very young team that exploded on the scene after the KJ/Chambers additions. I mean... within six months, the Suns added Kevin Johnson/Tom Chambers and Dan Majerle. That was a hell of an acquisition phase for the team that set them up for a solid seven years of contending for a title.

 

[Chaplin]

And Corbin was only 26. interesting thing about that team that people don’t realize or may not remember, but they were led by really young guards with KJ only 22 and Horny at 25. Also, their other starter Armon Gilliam was 23. And Majerle and Tim Perry were 22 and 21. Outside of Chambers and EJ, that was a very young team that exploded on the scene after the KJ/Chambers additions. I mean... within six months, the Suns added Kevin Johnson/Tom Chambers and Dan Majerle. That was a hell of an acquisition phase for the team that set them up for a solid seven years of contending for a title.

Yeah that was the time I started following the team.

 

[Covert Rain]

This is a common misperception about KJ being in and out of the lineup
His entire career, which wasn’t really the case until the year Chuck came to
Town. He might have had problems that might have limited him a bit with the hammies but averaged starting 77 games out of 82 in his four years on the Suns pre-Barkley and never missed a playoff game except for one half against Portland in Game 6 of the WCF in 1990 that ultimately doomed the team. Can still remember being up 16 or so closing in on the end of the first half and KJ pulling that hammy on a drive and being devastated. Horny did what he could scoring 36 that night but we ran out of gas and.., as seems to be the Suns way, had to watch another team celebrate a trip to the Finals on our home court.

Actually I stand corrected it wasn't years. Kevin lifted Oliver Miller which is when they think the injury's occurred. The injury predated Barkley but not him being in and out of the lineup. That is correct.