Bordow: McGinnis Hasn't Rescued Cardinals

[Wildman©]

His 2001 draft was solid — Leonard Davis, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Marcus Bell, among others — but his 2002 selections were ruinous: Wendell Bryant, Levar Fisher, Josh McCown, Dennis Johnson, Nate Dwyer, Jason McAddley, Josh Scobey, Mike Banks.

See an impact player in there? See anyone who's helping the Cardinals win games this year?

I am not sure that I see what I would call "an impact player" (a player who consistanly causes the opposition to adjust to his ability) anywhere on the whole team... I do see several players from the 2002 selections that are not hurting the Cards chances for winning. Calling the entire group "ruinous" is not a fair assessment. Doing that would be like me saying this writer is an idiot because I do not agree with a statement in one of his articles.

 

[Sandan]

Q is already an impact player.

The only question is will he continue to be one

 

[JeffGollin]

Q is an impact player within the parameters of a defined role (i.e. slot guy who can get open and break tackles after catches after running slant routes). As such, he's an extremely valuable and essential part of our offense.

But the commonly accepted definition of an impact wideout, usually involves someone who can get open deep, outtrun the defender and take it to the house. That's not Q (but that's OK). Still, we're going to need to add that element of the passing attack if we're ever going to make it click.

 

[AZCB34]

So if Boldin disappears from here until his contract runs out and doesn't do alot (whether it be due to injuries, defenses, attitude), is he still an impact player or would he be a player who had some huge games but fell by the wayside??

Just so everyone doesn't forget, I have already stated I am not suggesting he will not continue to produce like this...my problem is doing what he has done for 12 games doesn't make him impact to me. Makes him on a hot streak. Another year or two like this, then he will have been a true impact player.

 

[CardLogic]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
My only problem with that statement is name another WR who has had this good of a first year and not been an impact player in his career?

I hesitate posting this because I don't want to be the spoiler of the Quan-Fest but:


Bill Groman

Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1960 hou | 14 | 72 1473 20.5 12 |
| 1961 hou | 14 | 50 1175 23.5 17 |
| 1962 hou | 14 | 21 328 15.6 3 |
| 1963 den | 14 | 27 437 16.2 3 |
| 1964 buf | 5 | 4 68 17.0 1 |
| 1965 buf | 5 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 66 | 174 3481 20.0 36 |


He hit the league like a superstar, had two good years, then faded into obscurity. Except for the fact that he still holds the NFL Rookie recieving record for yardage.


Anybody know more about Bill Groman's story?? Why did he fade so fast??? Any Houston Oilers/AFL fans??

 

[RedStorm]

First, I think we are talking about the prior two drafts where Mac was the guy calling the shots.

As far as Q, he has had an outstanding year. I just hope he can continue. However, impact to me means the player can turn a game around and win it. Q has that possiblity, I guess, but has he yet? He has a phenomenal (sp) game against Detroit but we still lost. Farve is an impact player, Peyton is an impact player, Jerry Rice (in his pre social security years) was an impact player.

Has he shown it yet?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by CardLogic
I hesitate posting this because I don't want to be the spoiler of the Quan-Fest but:


Bill Groman


Anybody know more about Bill Groman's story?? Why did he fade so fast??? Any Houston Oilers/AFL fans??

Good point but that was 40 years ago the league was completely different then. I guess I should have said in the last 10-15 years how many Rookie WR's have been near as good as Quan and then gone on to be non impact players?

Sure if he gets hurt or we go through a series of young or lousy Qb's who can't get him the ball his numbers will fall off, but let's face it every team we play since Detroit has known about Quan and he's still caught 60 balls for 800 yards in the 11 games since that explosion in Detroit.

Something else on Quan, reports were his 40 times were getting faster last year before the draft and that it was hoped that he was regaining some of the speed he had before the ACL, which happened in 2001. This is his 2nd full year since the surgery is it possible he'll regain some of that speed or his speed now pretty much as good as it'll ever be?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by RedStorm
First, I think we are talking about the prior two drafts where Mac was the guy calling the shots.

As far as Q, he has had an outstanding year. I just hope he can continue. However, impact to me means the player can turn a game around and win it. Q has that possiblity, I guess, but has he yet? He has a phenomenal (sp) game against Detroit but we still lost. Farve is an impact player, Peyton is an impact player, Jerry Rice (in his pre social security years) was an impact player.

Has he shown it yet?

the problem with deciding whether or not Q is a bona fide impact player is that his supporting cast - as far as receivers go - has been so pathetic that the offense has been horrible. I mean by saying impact - one can ask exactly what kind of impact has Q had - we have the worst offense in the league even with a pretty decent running back. However - on the flip side - you can say - can you imagine how beyond horrendous this offense would be without Q? Personally - a difference maker to me is just that - Moss was the difference in the Vikings being a perenial 9 to 10 win team versus his first year there when they all of a sudden became an offensive juggernaut who went 15-1 or two years later went to the NFC Championship Game - or with Terry Glenn, you had a NE team that had made the playoffs under Parcells, but never made it past the second round - his first season their offense was elevated that much more and boom, the Pats were in the Super Bowl.

However - like I talked about above - both those guys also had decent talent around them - but certainly they took that team to another level. Here - Q is the only guy who appears to be able to play football out of our WR core - thus - he gets the lion share of everything thrown - and that says something for him - but it certainly says nothing about BJ or Gilmore. When Q is surrounded by another WR or two that can play I think then we'll be able to see how much of a difference maker or impact player he is - until then - for me - he's simply a warrior - and for now - considering how few of those we have on this team - that's good enough for me.

 

[Wild Card]

Originally posted by CardLogic
Anybody know more about Bill Groman's story?? Why did he fade so fast??? Any Houston Oilers/AFL fans??

CardLogic:

Well, part of it is that Groman was displaced as George Blanda's go-to guy by five-time Pro Bowler (1961-65) Charley Hennigan. Career stats, all with the Oilers:

Year G Rec Yards Y/R TD
1960 11 44 722 16.4 6
1961 14 82 1746 21.3 12
1962 14 54 867 16.1 8
1963 14 61 1051 17.2 10
1964 14 101 1546 15.3 8
1965 14 41 578 14.1 4
1966 14 27 313 11.6 3
TOTAL 95 410 6823 16.6 51

The other part is that Groman played on a pretty bad Broncos team (2-11-1) in '63, and couldn't get on the field with the two-time AFL champion Bills in '64-'65. So much for that career.

Great rookie year, though.

WC