Boris is suns best leaper

[tobiazz]

there was a movie on the internet showing jordan overstepped the foul line on that one by half a sneaker. I thought I saw Diaw leave at or before the stripe. Dr J had the same reported vertical as MJ(40-41") and dunked from beyond(not at) the foul line at least 3-4 times on camera. He did have like a 3" standing reach advantage over MJ though. This is all debatable of course, but my premise is that 6'6" to 6'8" athletes have similar running velocity(not acceleration), just like world class track athletes competing in the same event.

Track athletes are not a great example because they are always going to be at the top of the speed bell curve, since they are specialists. While 6'7" NBA players generally have similar characteristics, they will have a significantly larger variation in velocity.

 

[elindholm]

"I think you need" to learn how to make some simplifying assumptions to help your "basic" analysis. But they dont teach that in introductory classical physics do they?

Of course they do. All tables are frictionless, all balls are incompressible spheres, etc. But then, I took freshman university physics a quarter century ago. Maybe things have changed.

Velocity variations CAN be ignored in this case -a comparison of world class athletes, like Diaw Marion Kobe etc, with similar physical attributes- who are running while trying to handle a basketball and execute the necessary footwork for a flying dunk. But recognizing that would take an investment in time wouldnt it?

One you are unwilling to make, apparently. At the "simplest" level, the player behaves like a projectile. That means his flight path is determined by his takeoff velocity, both the vertical and horizontal components (or, if you like, the magnitude and angle).

Why do basketball players usually use the full length of the court to attempt a dunk from the line? To line up their footwork, yes, but also to build up maximum speed.

The suggestion that variations in speed can be ignored is simply bizarre. The faster the player is traveling when he takes off, the more quickly he'll arrive at the hoop.

Arm length is also a huge factor. Ignoring that is akin to saying that, for players dunking from a standstill under the rim, the only important factors are height and leaping ability.

By the way, your implied assertion that you know more physics than I do is ludicrous.

 

[Mulli]

 

[playstation]

By the way, your implied assertion that you know more physics than I do is ludicrous.

how you can have a pissing contest/ego driven discussion on an ONLINE message board is beyond me.

you may know more about physics, but after this i respect you less as a human being...

 

[elindholm]

how you can have a pissing contest/ego driven discussion on an ONLINE message board is beyond me.

you may know more about physics, but after this i respect you less as a human being...

Then you missed the point. If people read bad information, they risk coming away with an incorrect understanding of the facts. I don't think it is a good thing for people to misunderstand principles of "basic" physics. Even for people who don't think physics is relevant in their lives, it's dangerous to hold fundamental misconceptions about the laws that govern the physical world.

Just think about all of the harm that has been done in recent years because people didn't have an accurate understanding of the facts. Sure, it's easy to say that this is a trivial discussion about basketball dunks, with no greater implications, but I have a philosophical disagreement with that characterization. The pursuit of objective truth is a tenet of critical thinking. In other words, it's an awfully good habit to get into, no matter what the setting.

I get frightened when someone is spouting nonsense and touting it as fact. I think it is a threat to society. So I will step in and try to set the record straight. There are plenty of fields in which I am not qualified to speak as a (relative) authority, but this is one in which I am. It is important that people understand that, so that they know who is telling them the truth.

Although I would prefer that you respect me as a human being, it's a higher priority that you understand basic physics. So if appearing arrogant about my knowledge results in that tradeoff, it's a price I'm willing to pay.

 

[Cheesebeef]

how you can have a pissing contest/ego driven discussion on an ONLINE message board is beyond me.

you may know more about physics, but after this i respect you less as a human being...

I think some of you guys take a message board WAYYYYYYY too seriously.

 

[nowagimp]

how you can have a pissing contest/ego driven discussion on an ONLINE message board is beyond me.

you may know more about physics, but after this i respect you less as a human being...

I relinquish the(pissing) post to eric, even though I still believe that standing reach and vertical leap are the dominant variables in dunking from distance by the top NBA dunkers. You see, Eric and I have a history, it goes back to when I ripped him early last year for stating that House and Barbosa weren't good shooters. He was never an Eddie House fan, and he sure didnt like barbosas talents either. He lurks and waits to jump in for a fight, but he didnt even talk about Diaw dunking from out there, he's more interested in other things. I on the other hand, do not care what he thinks, and am excited about Diaws abilities, I just hope he finds a way to channel them so he can be a better player.

 

[elindholm]

I still believe that standing reach and vertical leap are the dominant variables in dunking from distance by the top NBA dunkers.

Of course they are the "dominant variables," but that's not what you said before.

You see, Eric and I have a history, it goes back to when I ripped him early last year for stating that House and Barbosa weren't good shooters. He was never an Eddie House fan, and he sure didnt like barbosas talents either.

Way to change the subject. I admire your courage.

Your memory of our "history" is better than mine. But you are right: I never liked House and was skeptical that Barbosa would ever develop into a good shooter. It looks like I was right about House -- who gradually revealed his true colors as the season progressed -- and wrong about Barbosa, so I can't claim a very good percentage on those two cases. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong.

(To be honest, I'm still amazed every time Barbosa's ugly line drives go in, and I suspect that his poor technique is reponsible for his lousy shooting during crunch time. But he's definitely getting it done for the first 3 1/2 quarters of every game, and that's terrific.)

but he didnt even talk about Diaw dunking from out there, he's more interested in other things.

Really. Of course it's exciting that Diaw can dunk from approximately the free throw line and has a great vertical leap. On the other hand, no one is arguing that. I don't usually chime in with "Me too!" posts, because they rarely add to the discussion.

You are wrong, though, that I am not enthusiastic about Diaw's abilities. I told anyone who would listen last summer that Diaw was more important to the Suns' future than Marion. I think we'd all agree that he has been a huge disappointment since signing his big extension. Like everyone else, I hope he'll snap out of it. No matter how impressive his leaping ability is, however, it clearly isn't translating into production on the floor right now.

 

[jibikao]

Jumping high and knowing how to dunk over people are two different things.

Boris may jump high but he doesn't have the power and the determination to dunk over people. Watch Amare. He WANTS to dunk that ball whenever he can, whereas Boris looks to pass first and then try to beat the defender with his speed and longarm. The way he finishes the layup, there is no way he can jump high with it 'cause his last step is always so far and I doubt there is any strength left to jump high with that last step.

 

[flying_hair]

jump ball

In the double over time game against the Nets, there was a play where Boris got tied up . He won the jump ball easily. I was impressed.