Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Covert Rain]

Not sure how this metric is quantified, but it's suspect. Nurk, Harris and especially Sabonis are all objectively bad defensive players.

This has to be head to head match-ups because the Suns paint defense, our measurable overall drop swapping out Head case (Ayton) for Nurk was notable.

 

[Suns_fan69]

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KD was KD, but Dunn looked a lot better than I was expecting offensively. Some pull up 3s, fadeaway 2s, good dribble drives... all shot with confidence. Lots of caveats obviously (1 on 1 isn't team basketball, let's see him do it in a real game, yadda yadda yadda), but still promising nonetheless.

 

[GatorAZ]

Let’s retweet this vid at the trade deadline:
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[Chaplin]

Let’s retweet this vid at the trade deadline:
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People are going to pay more attention to his shooting and finishing, but I'm impressed with how he dribbles and handles the ball.

 

[Yuma]

We were hit with so many blows during that era

JJ's face
Amare's knees
Amare's eye
Nash's nose
The Horry hip check

We win at least one ship with inferior easter conference challengers. Maybe two if things went right. The finals year, things just barely went right with plays like the Valley ooop, and CP3'd body just barely getting by.

The commissioner tipping a series against us.....

 

[Yuma]

Let’s retweet this vid at the trade deadline:
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The baskets fading away over KD from three are the most impressive to me. If he can score OVER KD that has to give you some sign he has ability.

 

[Yuma]

People are going to pay more attention to his shooting and finishing, but I'm impressed with how he dribbles and handles the ball.

This! Dribbling as been kind of a deemphasized skill. The ability to get to any spot on the floor is way overlooked, at all levels of basketball play.

 

[Suns_fan69]

People are going to pay more attention to his shooting and finishing, but I'm impressed with how he dribbles and handles the ball.

That hesitation dribble blow by on Naz Reid was pretty juicy. To be fair though, it's setup by his ability (at least in this context) to make outside shots, everyone was playing up on him. If he can be a threat from the corners that should set him up for attacking closeouts in hopefully spectacular fashion.

 

[JCSunsfan]

People are going to pay more attention to his shooting and finishing, but I'm impressed with how he dribbles and handles the ball.

His shot looks smooth. Lots to like here.

 

[Ronin]

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[Peter Sheldon]

Dunn looking like he has a solid spot in the rotation so far! Hopefully we got a diamond in the rough. Hard to know until we see some real games.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gerald Bourguet writes a solid article on why the Suns should be improved.

Obviously the coaching has changed and depth has improved, but what really jumps out, the Suns should be a much better 4th quarter team this season than last season.

They were the worst 4th quarter team by far last season. Think about all the games that were lost in the 4th quarter.

See quote below:


By Gerald Bourguet, September 11, 2024, PHNX

4. The 4th quarters can’t possibly be that bad again…right?​

Even the biggest haters of Durant, Booker and Beal never could’ve predicted the Suns would be the NBA’s worst fourth quarter team (by far) last year.


Phoenix’s league-worst -11.6 Net Rating was more than double the second-worst Net Rating in fourth quarters last year (Miami Heat at -5.5), but it was also tied for the sixth-worst fourth-quarter Net Rating in the last 28 years, dating back to NBA.com’s first available tracking data in 1996-97...

5 reasons Phoenix Suns will be better in 2024-25 season

After winning 49 games and a first-round playoff sweep, here are five reasons the Phoenix Suns will be better in 2024-25 than people expect.

gophnx.com

 

[Hoop Head]

Gerald Bourguet writes a solid article on why the Suns should be improved.

Obviously the coaching has changed and depth has improved, but what really jumps out, the Suns should be a much better 4th quarter team this season than last season.

They were the worst 4th quarter team by far last season. Think about all the games that were lost in the 4th quarter.

See quote below:


By Gerald Bourguet, September 11, 2024, PHNX

4. The 4th quarters can’t possibly be that bad again…right?​

Even the biggest haters of Durant, Booker and Beal never could’ve predicted the Suns would be the NBA’s worst fourth quarter team (by far) last year.


Phoenix’s league-worst -11.6 Net Rating was more than double the second-worst Net Rating in fourth quarters last year (Miami Heat at -5.5), but it was also tied for the sixth-worst fourth-quarter Net Rating in the last 28 years, dating back to NBA.com’s first available tracking data in 1996-97...

5 reasons Phoenix Suns will be better in 2024-25 season

After winning 49 games and a first-round playoff sweep, here are five reasons the Phoenix Suns will be better in 2024-25 than people expect.

gophnx.com

I was curious where the awful 4th quarter production ranked historically and I'm a little surprised it was only 6th worst over the last 28 years but I'll have to do some digging to see who "beat" them. I followed their 4th quarter follies since roughly Christmas and only seemed to get worse as the year went on, regardless of who was healthy. If there's 1 thing I'd point to as to why last years Suns failed, underachieved, or turned fans away though it'd definitely be their 4th quarter play. I can see that following Vogel and keeping him unemployed for a while.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I was curious where the awful 4th quarter production ranked historically and I'm a little surprised it was only 6th worst over the last 28 years but I'll have to do some digging to see who "beat" them. I followed their 4th quarter follies since roughly Christmas and only seemed to get worse as the year went on, regardless of who was healthy. If there's 1 thing I'd point to as to why last years Suns failed, underachieved, or turned fans away though it'd definitely be their 4th quarter play. I can see that following Vogel and keeping him unemployed for a while.

It's listed in the article

Phoenix’s league-worst -11.6 Net Rating was more than double the second-worst Net Rating in fourth quarters last year (Miami Heat at -5.5), but it was also tied for the sixth-worst fourth-quarter Net Rating in the last 28 years, dating back to NBA.com’s first available tracking data in 1996-97:

1. 2021-22 Portland Trail Blazers: -15.5 Net Rating (27-55)
2. 2022-23 San Antonio Spurs: -15.3 Net Rating (22-60)
3. 1998-99 Chicago Bulls: -14.4 Net Rating (13-37)
4. 1998-99 Vancouver Grizzlies: -14.2 Net Rating (8-42)
5. 1999-00 LA Clippers: -11.9 Net Rating (15-67)
6. 2011-12 Charlotte Bobcats: -11.8 Net Rating (7-59)
7. 2023-24 Phoenix Suns: -11.8 Net Rating (49-33)
8. 1998-99 Washington Wizards: -10.8 Net Rating (18-32)
9. 2013-14 Detroit Pistons: -10.8 Net Rating (32-50)
10. 2000-01 Chicago Bulls: -10.7 Net Rating (21-61)

Some of those teams were just straight up terrible (i looked up and added team records above). No other team was even sniffing 500, let alone having a winning record. Suns were an anomaly in that sense.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's listed in the article

Some of those teams were just straight up terrible (i looked up and added team records above). No other team was even sniffing 500, let alone having a winning record. Suns were an anomaly in that sense.

Appreciate it. I didn't pull up the article, obviously. Thanks for adding the records also as that's insane how the Suns were the only winning team on that list. The rest are awful teams that I'd imagine are young as well.

The thing that was so perplexing watching that happen in real time is how we would just fail to show up repeatedly. It's not like the team choked a lot and allowed a bunch of comebacks, they'd just quit playing with any cohesiveness whatsoever.

 

[Chaplin]

Appreciate it. I didn't pull up the article, obviously. Thanks for adding the records also as that's insane how the Suns were the only winning team on that list. The rest are awful teams that I'd imagine are young as well.

The thing that was so perplexing watching that happen in real time is how we would just fail to show up repeatedly. It's not like the team choked a lot and allowed a bunch of comebacks, they'd just quit playing with any cohesiveness whatsoever.

Agreed.

What made it all the more frustrating is that you can plainly see WHY it was happening (the ISO ball was IMO the #1 cause of this), and we saw it from the first game we lost in the 4th quarter. Vogel made no adjustments whatsoever in the 8 months of the season. Mind-boggling when you think about it.

And then you look at the record, we won 49 games in SPITE of those 4th quarter meltdowns. If that wasn't as much of an issue, what would our record have been? Frustrating.

 

[Peter Sheldon]

I think the 4th qtr woes were due to KD exhaustion. Missing shots and TOs, and too much Book iso. Absolutely no cohesiveness. Shooting percentages dropped quite a bit in 4th. Suns would maybe enter 4th with a ten point lead, try endless 3s that would fail. Other team playing better defense and suddenly hitting all their 3s. Game over. Having a real PG should help a ton. And if the new updated bench gets cohesion, then Book/KD get needed rest before 4th qtr. this can’t possibly be worse than last season.

 

[gimpy]

Agreed.

What made it all the more frustrating is that you can plainly see WHY it was happening (the ISO ball was IMO the #1 cause of this), and we saw it from the first game we lost in the 4th quarter. Vogel made no adjustments whatsoever in the 8 months of the season. Mind-boggling when you think about it.

And then you look at the record, we won 49 games in SPITE of those 4th quarter meltdowns. If that wasn't as much of an issue, what would our record have been? Frustrating.

All Vogel would have had to do to fix it was to check on our website here.

DONE FIXED,

But no. SMH

 

[Covert Rain]

I think the 4th qtr woes were due to KD exhaustion. Missing shots and TOs, and too much Book iso. Absolutely no cohesiveness. Shooting percentages dropped quite a bit in 4th. Suns would maybe enter 4th with a ten point lead, try endless 3s that would fail. Other team playing better defense and suddenly hitting all their 3s. Game over. Having a real PG should help a ton. And if the new updated bench gets cohesion, then Book/KD get needed rest before 4th qtr. this can’t possibly be worse than last season.

That was part of it. The team didn't execute on both ends. Couldn't score or stop anybody. Plus, Vogel was the worst in game adjuster since Pringles.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't think KD exhaustion is a valid excuse, personally. Sure he gets fatigued but I don't remember ANY game where that was why we lost.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think KD exhaustion is a valid excuse, personally. Sure he gets fatigued but I don't remember ANY game where that was why we lost.

He was our best player and one of the best in the league. I think there were times where we had him out there too long and his production fell off. Where if the team was deeper we would not have seen the peaks and valleys from him as often.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think KD exhaustion is a valid excuse, personally. Sure he gets fatigued but I don't remember ANY game where that was why we lost.

I'd only put the Christmas loss on him and that one Spurs loss. He made some bad passes but it didn't seem he was so gassed he couldn't play.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'd only put the Christmas loss on him and that one Spurs loss. He made some bad passes but it didn't seem he was so gassed he couldn't play.

Unless I am thinking of a different game I don't put that on Durant either. That was the game where they doubled either Durant or Book every single time they touched the ball. They were determined to make the rest of Phoenix beat them. Durant was under 20 and I think Book was around 20 points for that game. It was working with all the 3's Grayson was making but then the 4th quarter woes kicked in.

Then if I recall we had a bunch of turnovers and missed shots from everyone. We couldn't get the offense going. Then the defense by EVERYONE was horrendous and the Mavs scored I think close to 40 points in the 4th.

 

[Chaplin]

I'd only put the Christmas loss on him and that one Spurs loss. He made some bad passes but it didn't seem he was so gassed he couldn't play.

Yeah, there were quite a few stupid turnovers that he made, but I don't think it was fatigue, personally.

And we have another 27ppg scorer that should theoretically take up the slack when/if KD actually is fatigued.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Agreed.

What made it all the more frustrating is that you can plainly see WHY it was happening (the ISO ball was IMO the #1 cause of this), and we saw it from the first game we lost in the 4th quarter. Vogel made no adjustments whatsoever in the 8 months of the season. Mind-boggling when you think about it.

And then you look at the record, we won 49 games in SPITE of those 4th quarter meltdowns. If that wasn't as much of an issue, what would our record have been? Frustrating.

Agree. The combination of not having a point guard, and not having a competent coach was just horrible.