Brady=No Suspension

[Rivercard]

So what are you basing this idea he should be suspended for 25% of his work year on? Your belief?

Common sense based on information disclosed and ongoing behavior. Integrity of the game.

On an aside, teams should not have seperate footballs in the first place.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Common sense based on information disclosed and ongoing behavior. Integrity of the game.

On an aside, teams should not have seperate footballs in the first place.

What information specifically about Brady do you think there is?

 

[fatosber]

The Patriots lost two picks, including a first rounder, and a million bucks. It did not come away unscathed.

I am sure they'll take that considering they won the SuperBowl


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CardsFan88]

So... more concerned with catching them red handed then the actual integrity of the playoff game being played to an audience of millions.

As said... Brilliant!

This is such an excellent point.

If the point overall is integrity and making sure nothing harmed the integrity of the game occurred (especially a playoff game), how can Goodell ever let potentially playoff games be altered by such a situation?

There must be something that is above the integrity they claim is the utmost importance for them to let this occur at that time. Something even more holy then the integrity of the game. I wonder what that is?

It seems the NFL was out for blood... for what reason we can only guess at this point. If I had to take a guess I would guess it was due to all the losses it had suffered from prior idiocy on legal matters and the apparent NFL decision that it must seem like a strong authoritarian in the eyes of the public. Who made this decision I don't know. Owners, Goodell, both in agreement???

It's sad though, if this line of thinking is true, it basically implies Goodell screwed up Ray Rice (and others), so he decided to risk a playoff game and then the whole offseason to this crap in order to look better for his prior screwups that he and the league office were guilty of.

Thus this has all been about optics, not reality. Integrity? That's just the rationale they served to us.

It appears they wanted to push more propaganda then ever and go through this witch hunt just to back, support, and reestablish the initial propaganda that they wanted the public to believe. That they were strong on crime and it was their duty to be above the legal process. (of course beating someone's wife and ball deflation are going to have the same effect on that... right Goodell?)

Also how can they be above the legal process when they don't follow it in any way, or any judges orders from previous cases that a judge has even hinted he might throw Goodell is jail for not following these judges orders. Basically even when a Judge tells the NFL to act in a specific way, they refuse. That's not befitting the integrity of the league or the sport. But apparently they can go all medieval on Brady and that's just fine.

That we were taken for this ride, and lied to all these times in all these different ways, just so the NFL could be seen in the public eye to live up to some standard it felt it needed to, even if it really isn't their business to be engaged in this to begin with, is appalling. Let the legal system and independent arbitrators make the decision. It's absolute idiocy for the NFL and shield to cross this path, but THEY wanted to.

It's like a millionaire picking up pennies in front of a steamroller, it just makes no sense for them to get involved, but they are so adamant about being involved. Power hungry for power sake. The NFL would be wise to let these other LEGITIMATE processes make the decision and take ANY heat for it. If the NFL is so interested in optics they can always point that these processes are the law and they have to follow them, and it isn't their fault. It's appalling that not only do they feel optics are the most important aspect to uphold, but that they also fail at even following that doctrine.

It's pretty crazy when you think about it. They wanted to intervene and control the optics of the situation, when they didn't need to and should of been wise enough not to, but because they did and failed, they needed to manufacture a goal line stand against someone else... anywhere.

A bigger mistake in an attempt to cover up a smaller mistake(s), which only happened because of the hubris of the commissioner and/or select owners to become involved in the first place.

It was so important, that they threw Robert Kraft and Tom Brady under the bus.

All told apparently in the eyes of the NFL owners, losing case after case with known losing strategies and damaging the shield in a never ending process is apparently worth ~40 million a year in salary.

Goodell put the shield in front of himself to protect him and/or select owners from his and/or their horrible decisions. That's why we're here. He/they still won't stop, and we have to ask why? What owners are behind him and why? Were they pushing him to act like a moron and lose time after time after time? It's possible.

Right now Goodell is far more toxic then Ray Rice ever was, and he's pushing on with his farce, not able to let it go. Ray Rice was never the front face of the NFL, Goodell is. That's a problem for the NFL.

What owners will break (or never were) with this set of owners on the issue and call for the insanity to stop before it permanently harms the league? That's basically where I think we are treading. I'm not saying there will be a bloody revolt inside the cloaked room, but the emperor has been shown to be naked and running around silly for quite some time, and in the process he defamed and pissed off Robert Kraft. Not just treated him so badly, but treated him like dirt AFTER he gave the NFL the pound of flesh it so desperately wanted, and clearly did not deserve to get.

At some point, for the sanity and the health of the league overall, owners who may not want to be in power, need to strip from those that currently have it. This went as far as trying to destroy Robert Kraft, one of their own. Each of these owners should ask... am I next? Is my team next?

The sane adults in the room need to take the keys away from the drunk getting behind the wheel before they crash the NFL into a ditch and kill the golden goose sitting shotgun that they all rely upon.

I wonder what Tagliabue would say behind closed doors, probably something to the effect of how much a moron Goodell and/or the owners which pushed him down this path are, and how they need to be stopped for the good of the NFL. It wouldn't surprise me.

Tagliabue showed Goodell and/or these owners that this situation wouldn't fly with his previous neutral arbitrator actions, and they went on that doomed flight anyways. I just can't get over that Tagliabue gave Goodell a template, and he and/or owners threw that template out the window.

I'm sure he already had weight, but he probably could sway more owners now that it has been shown there is such a stark contrast between the sanity of Tagliabue and the insanity of Goodell and/or any owner behind him. It may take a year or two to play out, but I think there are going to be some massive changes within the NFL sooner or later. The sooner the better if you ask me.

Maybe I'm a bit off in my guesses, but one has to wonder WHY the NFL wasted everyone's time, compromised the integrity of playoff games, and slandered an entire organization? Why?

Surely if millions of dollars, thousands of hours and articles in the press (put out by incorrect information and dubious actions of the NFL), and now going on two court cases was supposedly legitimate enough to expend in the push of their point that has been thoroughly refuted in a court of law, there is something that can be expended on finding out WHY?

There's been too much buildup now to not have some resolution.

As a massive fan of the NFL I've been led to ask that question of WHY, and only because the NFL pushed me there come hell or high water. Lots of people are going to be asking this question, and those owners, the commissioner, and the NFL as a whole better have a great explanation. It would be the first time in this whole affair, and I for one, don't think they have one.

 

[Russ Smith]

So is this wrong or not?

"In the court hearing conducted this past Wednesday, Judge Berman surprised most observers by demonstrating significant curiosity in the underlying evidence relating to Brady and slightly under-inflated footballs. The main reason for this surprise is that Judge Berman’s role is to review an arbitration award, not to conduct a trial. In such a review, judges are expected to accord high deference to the arbitrator’s findings of facts. Moreover, should he issue an order vacating or upholding Brady’s suspension, Judge Berman would base his decision primarily on how the NFL applied Article 46 of the collective bargaining agreement—not on whether Brady “did it.” Judge Berman’s interest in the facts was also surprising given that the NFL and NFLPA agreed that no discovery (which would entail each side sharing new information with one another) would be part of the judge’s review.


Takeaways from legal briefs filed by NFL, NFLPA over Brady's suspension
by Michael McCann In its filing Friday night, the NFL indirectly reminded Judge Berman that his interest in the facts could be misplaced. Most notably, the league asserted that Goodell’s factual conclusions about Brady “may not be disturbed” under federal law. The NFL stressed that an arbitrator’s factual findings are accorded “extreme deference” under the law, meaning that Judge Berman should only explore questions about evidence with the highest form of reverence for Goodell’s fact-finding. The league even went so far to cite the U.S. Supreme Court case MLBPA v. Steve Garvey to conclude that federal judges can’t vacate arbitration awards “despite allegations that the [award] rests on factual errors.” In other words, from the NFL’s perspective, whatever concerns Judge Berman may have about the lack of direct evidence linking Brady to a ball deflation scheme should not be grounds for the judge to overrule Goodell.
Brady’s legal team clearly anticipated the NFL raising the issue of deference for Goodell’s fact-finding. In Brady’s brief, his attorneys tell Judge Berman that, “the point here is not that the Court needs to decide any disputes issues of fact.” Instead, Brady’s team explains, Judge Berman should conclude that, “the Award itself [Goodell upholding Brady’s suspension] evidences a clearly biased agenda—not an effort at fairness and consistency.” Still, Brady’s team used its brief to remind the judge of negative facts for the NFL. This was especially evident when Brady’s side bolded a quote from Wells in which Wells admitted that analysis of halftime PSI measurements was based on “uncertain” information.



In some ways, the attorneys for both sides are intentionally talking past each other when it comes to the issue of “facts.” Brady’s team wants Judge Berman to view Goodell’s fact-finding not as a question of evidence but as a question of process. From Brady's perspective, the absence of direct evidence is in fact a question of process, since Goodell would have misapplied Article 46 by punishing him without regard for “fairness and consistency.” In contrast, from the NFL’s perspective, the absence of direct evidence is irrelevant since Goodell is to be accorded “extreme deference.” To further this point, the league cites various forms of circumstantial evidence purportedly implicating Brady. This includes the “sudden spike in communications between Jastremski and Brady following the AFC Championship Game” and the supposed “evidence of McNally’s demands for cash, clothing and autographed items from Brady, some of which Brady provided.”

How will Judge Berman view these competing arguments about the legal significance of evidence? We’ll find out on Wednesday, which is when the parties are next scheduled to meet in court."


That's from an SI story about 3 weeks ago, supposedly the guy who wrote it is a lawyer.

 

[GuernseyCard]

In the video taping scandal, teams were officially warned and then the PATS decided to simply ignore the admonition. They were punished and quite rightly so.

In this case the league decided to keep a report alleging deflation of balls to itself and run a sting operation.

Concern for the integrity of the game was clearly shown in the former case, and ignored in the latter.

 

[Reddog]

People forget that the NFL has zero evidence. Obviously, look at the court decision today. Everyone can sit here and assume Brady is guilty but from a legal standpoint the NFL has nothing except the fact that he wouldn't turn over his cell phone.

Do people forget that Brady is a human being? I wouldn't turn over my PERSONAL cell phone either no matter what my employer said. The NFL isn't the Federal government or some all powerful entity (even though Roger thinks they are) they have no right to invade his privacy like that, regardless of how deflated their balls get. Brady I'm sure, like all men, has private text from his wife, and his friends, lawyer, accountant, possibly his doctors, and other personal buisness matters. We all know that nothing is ever really deleted. So he turns over the cell phone and they find nothing but then 3 months later, naughty pics from his wife magically appear on the internet, (how much would naughty pictures of Gisele be worth to someone? Millions?)

I'm just saying, if I were him and the NFL said, hey we need to go through your cell phone, I would have told them to urinate vertically upon a rope as well.

I know people hate Brady and the Patriots, but Roger has nothing here and if you dont believe me do you believe the judge? Whether it's a court of law or a suspension hearing, the burden of proof is ALWAYS on the accuser. The NFL has nothing, and they are acting like spoiled little kids who aren't getting their way. Even a lot of the "evidence" that some of you and other fans on the internet THINK they have, they really dont have because that stuff isn't true! Just like the original story that the Colts DB had brought the ball to the official and complained, that didn't happen. That was an outright lie by someone in the NFL to cover the fact that they were basically running a sting operation. Like Chris said, the text message to the ball boys, that was also revealed to be a big fat lie. People like to vilify Brady as this big liar, Roger is no better.

IN MY OPINION, by not letting this drop, they are doing more damage to the NFL because people are so freaking sick of this and they just want it to go away, now 2 seasons are going to be tainted by the constant discussion of this. Ridiculous. You lost, let it go, check your balls more often.

Getting a not guilty verdict does not mean not guilty. Look at OJ for example. They can't let it drop because they are constantly fighting a PR battle due to the relatively few players that break the law and have a union that fight for them regardless of their offense. They have to enforce the rules and the law but Goodell just isn't the right guy to do it and they don't have an acceptable system in place to do what is needed to properly protect the interests of the league while providing a fair system for the players.

 

[Phrazbit]

The ruling was more about Goodell than Brady. The NFL's system for disciplining players is laughable. In virtually every high profile case the league has confronted in recent years Goodell has used arbitrary means to dish out punishment, more interested with "sending a message" than fairness. It may appease the masses to rule this way but its not justice. And if someone does not agree with Goodell's ruling who do they appeal to? Goodell. A right he won while standing on the Union's neck during the Lock-Out... which itself was yet another situation where the league was giving the middle finger to fairness.

Goodell has proven himself to be grossly incompetent when it comes to discipline, the League needs to create another position to handle it (as the MLB, NBA and NHL do), and they need to bring in legit arbitrators to deal with those rulings, rather than the de facto dictatorship that was currently in place.

 

[WildBB]

So what does this mean for Massie, anything?

 

[GatorAZ]

Deny till ya die. Words to live by.

 

[BigRedRage]

So what does this mean for Massie, anything?

was he deflating footballs or something?

 

[Buckybird]

Deny till ya die. Words to live by.

Or as Chris Carter says "get you a fall guy". Well Brady did, 2 equipment peeps & they were suspended by the team. Lol

We all know the truth!!!

 

[Buckybird]

was he deflating footballs or something?

He might have been drinking alcohol out of them, so maybe

 

[Bert]

Getting a not guilty verdict does not mean not guilty. Look at OJ for example. They can't let it drop because they are constantly fighting a PR battle due to the relatively few players that break the law and have a union that fight for them regardless of their offense. They have to enforce the rules and the law but Goodell just isn't the right guy to do it and they don't have an acceptable system in place to do what is needed to properly protect the interests of the league while providing a fair system for the players.

Never said Brady was not guilty. The NFL is flat out wrong.

They suspended Brady on one simple principal, they believe he is guilty. You would think that, you know, all these men being adults, with lawyers, they would know enough to realize; "I am pretty sure he did it" is not something that holds up in court.

Nobody has ever conclusively proved (even in the NFL's BS report they paid 5 million dollars for) that Brady did anything except refuse to turn over his cell phone.

The NFL lost, plain and simple. Just like the prosecutors did with OJ. We all thought OJ was guilty, but notice how when the Jury came back not guilty the judge didn't step in and say, hang on here, I'm sure he did it, GUILTY! The NFL has to learn how the real world works. Roger thinks he is some kind of king who can issue decrees, which makes no sense because he has yet to win a court battle.

 

[Dude]

Time for Goodell to go.

+1

 

[Covert Rain]

I am down the middle of this. The Pats have a history. Period. I have no doubt that Brady asked the balls to be deflated and probably cheated. Having said that, the NFL had the burden of proof. It was their responsibility to build the case and they failed IMO.

I actually like the fact the NFL made an attempt to send a message here. I would rather the NFL attempt to come down hard then send the message that pushing the envelope by teams is OK.

 

[jeeperaz]

I am down the middle of this. The Pats have a history. Period. I have no doubt that Brady asked the balls to be deflated and probably cheated.

Do you know how many balls were ultimately found to be deflated? Three out of eleven! Another three were found to be over-inflated. The remaining five were within specs.


edit* Also, the ball with the highest level of deflation was only under by 0.45psi

 

[TJ]

I actually like the fact the NFL made an attempt to send a message here. I would rather the NFL attempt to come down hard then send the message that pushing the envelope by teams is OK.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. Goodell has been trying to "send messages" since he became commisioner. The players have caught on, are now challenging his ruilings in court and have won the last five appeals. The message he's sending is, "What's a CBA?"

Goodell is getting worked over by a historically feeble NFLPA. That's embarrassing.

 

[Covert Rain]

Actually, it's quite the opposite. Goodell has been trying to "send messages" since he became commisioner. The players have caught on, are now challenging his ruilings in court and have won the last five appeals. The message he's sending is, "What's a CBA?"

Goodell is getting worked over by a historically feeble NFLPA. That's embarrassing.

Are you kidding me with this? NFL players have been getting away with murder since forever. You have players who have historically done what they want, hidden behind the NFLPA on just about everything....including challenging drug suspensions let alone more serious legal violations outside the bounds of football.

Look, I won't deny that the NFL seriously needs to rethink it's strategy but many of these players and teams feel because they generate millions they can do what they want and are untouchable. As far as I am concerned, the NFL is too soft on teams and players and will only get worse unless the NFL is able to reign in teams and players. The NFL has done much better than other sports but in general....sports as whole? It's pretty laughable.

I mean teams have demonstrated over and over they would keep the most despicable players if it wasn't for public opinion.

 

[Jetstream Green]

All these suspensions are jokes. The rulings mean nothing because they are all challenged and people like Brady who are high profile walk away clean no matter what in the end... why even make a suspension if none of them ever hold up, the NFL is crooked and bent towards the money and not ethics which they hide behind in their stupid rulings

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I for one am tired of these handpicked judges always ruling in the players' favor when up against the NFL.

Brady cheated. No if ands or buts. No 'video evidence' was possible as it doesn't exist, but he controlled the balls, the ball boys actions, and destroyed the only evidence that did exist because the NFL doesn't have subpoena power. But, the NFL is being held to the irrefutable burden of proof standard.

The Patriots culture is to cheat the game and suck up the accolades. The players union doesn't help matters either, always sticking up for the criminal as opposed to realizing that the ones he cheated against were also all the members of the players union.

Time for some on-the-field justice.

FYI, the district was hand-picked by the nfl in this case as a preemptive move to avoid the player-friendly Minnesota venue.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Goodell got smacked down. The judge didn't even address three issues he probably could of done victory laps against him on.

What's really hilarious is that Tagliabue vacated some of the punishment in Bountygate based on some of these reasons AND some of the other reasons Goodell got burned on, Tagliabue didn't let happen because he was either a) more honorable b)had a much better grip on the law.

Which means that Goodell had everything he needed from recent losses from his idiocy to know not to go down this road, yet LOSER Goodell decided to go down a LOSING path.

This was a witch hunt plain and simple.

Now I wish people would remind themselves about how easily the propaganda by Goodell and the NFL league office swayed them, and be reminded that stuff ancillary to this farce goes on every day on life and death issues all around us. That next time, people should ask some critical thinking questions, before believing propaganda. It just might save your life.

Let me ask you, you think the balls weren't deflated? You "deflator" was a nickname for anything OTHER than deflating balls? You think equipment guys for pats would tamper with balls without Brady's direction, much less knowledge???

C'mon . . . You can dislike goodell and the way he mets out punishment, but you're not stupid, right?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not really. There was a PSI range, and the football can LEGALLY be altered to anywhere on that range. It's not against the spirit of the law to be within the range.

Think of it this way, where do you keep the tire pressure on your car? Do you go for the maximum tire pressure or do you keep it a bit under because you may like the feel of the tires a little lower and might think there's less chance to develop leaks at a slightly lower pressure? Are you then endangering everyone else on the road because your tires are 1lb under max pressure? Are you violating everyone else's right on the road and the spirit of safety by having it altered to what you prefer?

Also there is no evidence Brady told them to do anything. They might have gone on their own knowing Brady likes the ball a little light. Most of the complaints we heard from a distance about Brady was that he was pissed it was vastly OVERINFLATED... ABOVE the legal limit. That is not evidence he wanted balls underinflated below the limit. It means, if anything, he wanted HIS equipment guys to MAKE SURE, that it was not illegally OVERINFLATED.

I see nothing wrong with that, and neither should anyone else.

The main thing to remember folks, is that the NFL spewed nothing but propaganda and lies, and jumped to conclusions massively to support their witch hunt. They double and tripled down on idiocy even though they knew they didn't have anything. They tarnished players, a club, and took it to court (one they thought was preferrable) and lost BIG TIME.

They treated everyone as fools, and in the end they themselves look the fool.

You're going off a meme that the Patriots are always looking for an edge. Perhaps there is truth to that (or perhaps was in years past), but in this case, we don't see it, so using it as a rationale is incorrect.

Wow. I got some land to sell you. No, don't look at it, just take my word.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Let me ask you, you think the balls weren't deflated? You "deflator" was a nickname for anything OTHER than deflating balls? You think equipment guys for pats would tamper with balls without Brady's direction, much less knowledge???

C'mon . . . You can dislike goodell and the way he mets out punishment, but you're not stupid, right?

in an earlier thread, he compared Goodell to Joseph Goebbles with a straight face. Does that answer your question?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd take my chances on that wording in court.

"Cooperate" has a common sense test, and all information pertinent to an investigation would suffice as an argument to a court.

You're out to lunch if you think "cooperate" as the sole standard wouldn't be flipped every which way by a good attorney. Laws have very specific wording to avoid ambiguity. Ambiguity is the primary weapon of the guilty.