Bridges or DiVincenzo + Miami 2021

[Cheesebeef]

Oh we all get what you are saying. It comes down to how each person sees risk. I even think we all agree on the cost and the potentials of the trade. That Miami pick is a lottery ticket. The fear of missing out on hitting big, even if the odds are small, is a signficant fear for some. For others, the low odds of hitting it big make taking a sure thing now a much better choice. Some of us are gamblers and some are not. The really funny thing is that each group accuses the other of being the gamblers.

It is choice that can tip either way, which means it was probably a pretty even trade.

I'm usually a gambler too... I'm just not sure that was the right gamble.

Again, I think Bridges is going to be a REALLY solid player. I just don't like the comp given up to get him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm usually a gambler too... I'm just not sure that was the right gamble.

Again, I think Bridges is going to be a REALLY solid player. I just don't like the comp given up to get him.

We are at that stage in team-building where sometimes you have to overpay to get the piece you want. You have to be willing to lose a battle to win the war. Could we have made the trade with less? I don't know. Maybe. I do know there was not time to work out protection details. Philly was in a position where they were good with keeping Mikal. We really wanted him. It's not a bad thing to go get the player you really want sometimes. You can't always wait for the best deal to come along. Sometimes you just have to pay the money.

It's like buying a car. You get the car you really want. But then you hear about a better deal the next week. Just quit shopping and enjoy the car.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Geez... you and your bro’s disdain for McD couldn’t be more clear!
Put your hate aside dude and just accept the FACT that the McD secured the two guys he coveted most, Ayton and Bridges. In order to get Bridges, he needed to burn the Miami 2021 pick... We have NO idea where that pick will fall. Let it go! We’ll have the Bucks pick on 2021. How many damn picks do want to keep stashing away? If we keep hoarding picks, doesn’t that suggest we aren’t winning/being successful??
LET IT GO!!!

I don’t hate McD. I think he’s been reasonably successful in the draft and getting reasonable contracts. And i was obviously glad he came to his senses the past two years on tanking. I think he’s sometimes an idiot in the press being emotionally reactive to players and that hurts the team. And I think he is in the losing end of trades more often than the winning end. It’s that simple.

Now I can understand my brother’s (and other’s ) reactions to him, but seeing and understanding both sides of the coin doesn’t make me hate him.

And even if I did, you really have no standing to tell someone else what to think or to “let it go.” Argue the facts and make your interpretations, but try to control yourself and refrain from telling others what to do.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The thing that could make the deal seem sour is if Donte ends up a better player than Mikal. But Mikal has 3 inches of height and 7 inches of wingspan on Donte.

That doesn’t bother me because I don’t hold anyone to 20-20 hindsight as a standard. I think we would be hard pressed to find anyone that would take DiVincenzo over bridges straight up today.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

IMO Mikal is already better then Marion was. And when he is 26 he will be Kawhi. No one will be talking about that pick but Philly fans.

Man that’s some lofty expectations.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I don’t hate McD. I think he’s been reasonably successful in the draft and getting reasonable contracts. And i was obviously glad he came to his senses the past two years on tanking. I think he’s sometimes an idiot in the press being emotionally reactive to players and that hurts the team. And I think he is in the losing end of trades more often than the winning end. It’s that simple.

Now I can understand my brother’s (and other’s ) reactions to him, but seeing and understanding both sides of the coin doesn’t make me hate him.

And even if I did, you really have no standing to tell someone else what to think or to “let it go.” Argue the facts and make your interpretations, but try to control yourself and refrain from telling others what to do.

The facts? The only thing you can claims about the Bridges deal is that the pick we tossed in was unprotected...For all we know, that pick could turn into the 20th pick. Meanwhile, another fact is McD got a guy he coveted, who was picked #10 overall! Another fact is McD still has the Bucks pick which, in 2021 will be unprotected... and if you had to choose between a Bucks or a Heat unprotected 2021 pick, it’s a no-brained which one you would want...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The can’t do anything until 2020.

Couple that with the fact they don’t have even a single star to attract others and you have my reasoning for projecting that pick to be relatively high.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Unless they can do a trade that improves them long term.

With what assets? They don’t have many, if any, desirable players (I mean they even devalued whiteside last season lowering his minutes) and they only have two draft picks between now and then?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oh we all get what you are saying. It comes down to how each person sees risk. I even think we all agree on the cost and the potentials of the trade. That Miami pick is a lottery ticket. The fear of missing out on hitting big, even if the odds are small, is a signficant fear for some. For others, the low odds of hitting it big make taking a sure thing now a much better choice. Some of us are gamblers and some are not. The really funny thing is that each group accuses the other of being the gamblers.

It is choice that can tip either way, which means it was probably a pretty even trade.

I’m not sure I agree with the final paragraph but your analysis above that is pretty good in my opinion. I can accept that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We are at that stage in team-building where sometimes you have to overpay to get the piece you want. You have to be willing to lose a battle to win the war. Could we have made the trade with less? I don't know. Maybe. I do know there was not time to work out protection details. Philly was in a position where they were good with keeping Mikal. We really wanted him. It's not a bad thing to go get the player you really want sometimes. You can't always wait for the best deal to come along. Sometimes you just have to pay the money.

It's like buying a car. You get the car you really want. But then you hear about a better deal the next week. Just quit shopping and enjoy the car.

But some teams don’t overpay. When’s the last time you heard of the Celtics overpaying? And they’re much closer to “do whatever it takes” land than are we.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But some teams don’t overpay. When’s the last time you heard of the Celtics overpaying? And they’re much closer to “do whatever it takes” land than are we.

I also don’t recall Jerry being in the losing end of trades very often. They typically were equal or in our favor. The lone exception I can think of is the majerle for hot rod deal.

 

[1tinsoldier]

indeed, it is optimistic to anticipate Bridges having a Marion career
but it is conceivable for him to be even better

the last year or 2 before we traded Shawn, i would cringe every time he chucked his funky 3 point shot
he lost track of what his own strengths were, so i was ok with trading him
he recovered somewhat after the trade

Bridges has a nice stroke and appears to be legit from 3

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The facts? The only thing you can claims about the Bridges deal is that the pick we tossed in was unprotected...For all we know, that pick could turn into the 20th pick. Meanwhile, another fact is McD got a guy he coveted, who was picked #10 overall! Another fact is McD still has the Bucks pick which, in 2021 will be unprotected... and if you had to choose between a Bucks or a Heat unprotected 2021 pick, it’s a no-brained which one you would want...

You’re right (a) I would want both (which we had) and (b) is want the one which couldn’t convey earlier if later (guess which one that is) and (c) I’d want the one from the team that doesn’t have the Greek freak or much talent on it.

Guess you’re right, it’s a no-brained, I’d rather have the Miami pick. Now I’m left wishing:

The bucks are good enough next year and the year after to have protection apply. But bad enough that after those two years Giannis bolts thereby giving us the same potential as the Miami pick already had.

 

[JCSunsfan]

With what assets? They don’t have many, if any, desirable players (I mean they even devalued whiteside last season lowering his minutes) and they only have two draft picks between now and then?

Um.. I just looked at Miami's roster and contracts. Wow. They are in trouble. Gotta agree with you Ouch and Cheese, I don't see how Miami CAN be good in 2021 unless they do a full tank now. But I think they will, and it will cause no lack of hand-wringing on our part.

They are paying Tyler Johnson $19 million the next two years! They have big money commited to Waiters, Olynyk, Whiteside, even Bosh gets $26 million this year. But they have virtually NO money committed for 2021. So they could do a complete rebuild the summer before that pick comes up.

So here is what we are facing--a really bad Heat team for the next two years (lotto picks?) followed by a summer in 2020 when they have enough dough to sign three max players.

The could have a rebuild finished just before that pick comes up.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Um.. I just looked at Miami's roster and contracts. Wow. They are in trouble. Gotta agree with you Ouch and Cheese, I don't see how Miami CAN be good in 2021 unless they do a full tank now. But I think they will, and it will cause no lack of hand-wringing on our part.

They are paying Tyler Johnson $19 million the next two years! They have big money commited to Waiters, Olynyk, Whiteside, even Bosh gets $26 million this year. But they have virtually NO money committed for 2021. So they could do a complete rebuild the summer before that pick comes up.

So here is what we are facing--a really bad Heat team for the next two years (lotto picks?) followed by a summer in 2020 when they have enough dough to sign three max players.

The could have a rebuild finished just before that pick comes up.

That could happen, but their current roster doesn’t lend itself to that easily. And to someone’s earlier point, the heat haven’t ever really tanked. They’ve reloaded to some level of mediocrity, but never gone full tank. And even though I’m obviously a big proponent of it (thought Hinkie was right when most thought him mad, and obviously was one of the primary tank commanders the past two seasons) I don’t think that’s in Riley’s dna. So if I had to guess, based on current fact set, I’d guess that 2021 has a good likelihood of hitting nicely. That said, not likely too 1-5 because they’ll have no incentive to lose (see Nets this year), but even then mediocre talent only gets so far.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I also don’t recall Jerry being in the losing end of trades very often. They typically were equal or in our favor. The lone exception I can think of is the majerle for hot rod deal.

Oh. There were lots of them.

Dennis Johnson for Rick Robey
Charles Barkley to Houston for three guys that did not want to be here.
Tom Chambers to Philly for Marko Milic
Traded a first-round pick and players for Luc Longley
Dudley and Kidd to NJ for Marbury
Cliff Robinson to Detroit for John Wallace and Buechler
Googs and two first-round picks to Utah for nothing.
Armen Gilliam to Charlotte for Kurt Rambis (losing trade that helped the team)

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

That said, not likely too 1-5 because they’ll have no incentive to lose (see Nets this year), but even then mediocre talent only gets so far.

I'm encouraged that the Nets only finished 8th this year. That team was pretty dang low on talent. Of course, the lottery will be modified slightly to even the odds, so even if the Heat just barely miss the playoffs it could conceivably come back to bite us. (Who knows if the odds continue to change between now and then).

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm encouraged that the Nets only finished 8th this year. That team was pretty dang low on talent. Of course, the lottery will be modified slightly to even the odds, so even if the Heat just barely miss the playoffs it could conceivably come back to bite us. (Who knows if the odds continue to change between now and then).

Thirty years ago almost all NBA shows or "expert" guests were former coaches and GMs. Today, these shows are populated mostly by former players. They have and therefore provide an often radically different perspective than many of us older fans are used to. It seems that the popular rant these days is about the need to lose the draft entirely. Silver is just the type of Commissioner to listen to that and react accordingly. Don't be surprised if we see a huge overhaul of the draft if not the end of it completely when the next CBA is negotiated.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thirty years ago almost all NBA shows or "expert" guests were former coaches and GMs. Today, these shows are populated mostly by former players. They have and therefore provide an often radically different perspective than many of us older fans are used to. It seems that the popular rant these days is about the need to lose the draft entirely. Silver is just the type of Commissioner to listen to that and react accordingly. Don't be surprised if we see a huge overhaul of the draft if not the end of it completely when the next CBA is negotiated.

Hmm. The draft is such a money maker for the league. Older players also don't like young players making too much money. I don't quite see it. However, I do see the NBA trying cut out the NCAA and really working on drafting high schoolers into the GLeague. They want a baseball model.

The compromise with the PU will be that the NBA will eliminate one and done if the PU relaxes the G-League assignment rules. For instance, players within two years of high school graduation (or under 21) can be assigned to the G-League at the pleasure of their big league team. That would make the NBA product better by not having to carry so many developing players on the roster. It would open up the big-league roster for more vets. It would create bigger interest in the G-League and increase viewership and attendance. It's really a win for everyone. They should even schedule games between G-League teams and NCAA teams.

 

[Chaplin]

Re: Bridges and Marion... What was Marion's scouting report when he was drafted? Some people are going a bit overboard comparing Bridges today with Marion at his peak. That's pretty ridiculous. The question we should be asking is how does he compare to Marion at this age?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hmm. The draft is such a money maker for the league. Older players also don't like young players making too much money. I don't quite see it. However, I do see the NBA trying cut out the NCAA and really working on drafting high schoolers into the GLeague. They want a baseball model.

I've heard at least a dozen different hosts and guests clamoring for the end of the draft over the past two weeks alone. I have no idea how it will play out but changes often come about like this. To me it's mind boggling how you could even pretend to have a chance at a balanced league and do away with the draft but that doesn't mean a solution isn't out there - I just can't come up with one.

 

[Mainstreet]

With what assets? They don’t have many, if any, desirable players (I mean they even devalued whiteside last season lowering his minutes) and they only have two draft picks between now and then?

Whiteside or Dragic may be their most moveable pieces. It's why giving up the Heat's unprotected 2021 pick hurt.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Whiteside or Dragic may be their most moveable pieces. It's why giving up the Heat's unprotected 2021 pick hurt.

Well. Ryan either REALLY wanted Mikal or he really has a lot of respect for Pat Riley's GM abilities. Probably some of both.

 

[Chaplin]

Well. Ryan either REALLY wanted Mikal or he really has a lot of respect for Pat Riley's GM abilities. Probably some of both.

Historically, McD is absolutely correct. The Heat just aren't a team that are bad for very long. And it's not like 2018 is the first year in their 30 year history where they had bad contracts. And yet, they still have a great overall record.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well. Ryan either REALLY wanted Mikal or he really has a lot of respect for Pat Riley's GM abilities. Probably some of both.

We can respect Spoeltra, like Bridges and realize the future Miami pick was a huge loss all at the same time.