Brilliant or Boneheaded?

[Mitch]

Knowing when to use timeouts in sports is an art form, isn't it?

Perhaps lost in the shuffle of last night's stunning victory for the Patriots was Bill Belichick's decision to let the clock run on 2nd and goal.

Knowing the Boston fans and media the way I do, had the Seahawks scored with 20 seconds left and Tom Brady was then unable to get the 40-50 yards necessary in a mere 20 seconds to attempt a game tying FG, Belichick would have been hammered unmercifully in much the same way Pete Carroll was/is getting hammered for electing to pass on 2nd and goal from the 1 yard line.

Belichick obviously was willing to accept an all or nothing goal-line stand with the Super Bowl on the line---when clearly he did not have to.

Now---why did he let the clock run?

Was it impulse?

Even though the Seahawks looked disorganized after the Kearse catch and had to use a TO---Lynch hammers down to the 1 yard line on 1st and goal---and everyone in the stadium knew that Lynch was going to get the ball on 2nd goal with a better than 60% chance of scoring the go-ahead TD.

Everyone that is, except Pete Carroll and Darrell Bevell...

And maybe one more person had a hunch...Bill Belichick.

Belichick said he wasn't surprised that the Seahawks passed the ball and that he knew the defense had to be ready for anything and everything.

The key to all of this happening was the Seahawks having to use their second timeout after the Kearse miracle.

Had the Seahawks two TOs left---Belichick would have used his TOs to stop the clock.

But the one TO left scenario had the Seahawks very clock-conscious---and when coaches and players are clock-conscious everything hastens, especially the play-calling and the execution of the plays.

Had Belichick used a TO after the Lynch run to the 1 yard line...now giving Pete Carroll and Darrel Bevell the time to think and more time on the clock, is there any chance at all the Seahawks would have passed the ball in that situation?

None.

Belichick therefore gambled that with the clock ticking the Seahawks might do something hasty---and by geez---they did.

Most likely what Belichick was hoping for is an off-sides penalty or a holding call, or botched up timing on the play---or just as much as anything---a stuff in the backfield.

Had one of those occurred---the Seahawks would have had to use their final TO---and with 20 seconds left they would have had to pass the ball at least on 3rd down and quite possibly on 4th down.

So Belichick let the Seahawks feel the pressure of the clock---and as it turns out his instincts were brilliant---

And...those same instincts were one Marshawn Lynch 1 yard run away from being hailed as one of the most boneheaded coaching decisions in Super Bowl history, especially when the coach has Tom Brady at QB.

So fine is the line between brilliant and boneheaded, isn't it?

 

[Matt L]

Knowing when to use timeouts in sports is an art form, isn't it?

Perhaps lost in the shuffle of last night's stunning victory for the Patriots was Bill Belichick's decision to let the clock run on 2nd and goal.

Knowing the Boston fans and media the way I do, had the Seahawks scored with 20 seconds left and Tom Brady was then unable to get the 40-50 yards necessary in a mere 20 seconds to attempt a game tying FG, Belichick would have been hammered unmercifully in much the same way Pete Carroll was/is getting hammered for electing to pass on 2nd and goal from the 1 yard line.

Belichick obviously was willing to accept an all or nothing goal-line stand with the Super Bowl on the line---when clearly he did not have to.

Now---why did he let the clock run?

Was it impulse?

Even though the Seahawks looked disorganized after the Kearse catch and had to use a TO---Lynch hammers down to the 1 yard line on 1st and goal---and everyone in the stadium knew that Lynch was going to get the ball on 2nd goal with a better than 60% chance of scoring the go-ahead TD.

Everyone that is, except Pete Carroll and Darrell Bevell...

And maybe one more person had a hunch...Bill Belichick.

Belichick said he wasn't surprised that the Seahawks passed the ball and that he knew the defense had to be ready for anything and everything.

The key to all of this happening was the Seahawks having to use their second timeout after the Kearse miracle.

Had the Seahawks two TOs left---Belichick would have used his TOs to stop the clock.

But the one TO left scenario has the Seahawks very clock-conscious---and when coaches and players are clock-conscious everything hastens, especially the play-calling.

Had Belichick used a TO after the Lynch run to the 1 yard line...now given the time to think and more time on the clock, is there any chance at all the Seahawks would have passed the ball in that situation?

Belichick therefore gambled that with the clock ticking the Seahawks might do something hasty---and by geez they did.

Most likely what Belichick was hoping for is an off-sides penalty or a holding call, or botched up timing on the play---or just as much---a stuff in the backfield.

Had one of those occurred---the Seahawks would have had to use their final TO---and with 20 seconds left they would have had to pass the ball at least on 3rd down and quite possibly on 4th down.

So Belichick let the Seahawks feel the pressure of the clock---and as it turns out his instincts were brilliant---

And...one Marshawn Lynch 1 yard run away from being hailed as one of the most boneheaded coaching decisions in Super Bowl history, especially when the coach has Tom Brady at QB.

So fine is the line between brilliant and boneheaded, isn't it?

I think they are both pretty good coaches but the Patriots won because their 4th or 5th best defensive back made an incredible break and even better catch on a quick slant. The throw was fairly accurate and it looked like the receiver was also in a spot to get that ball. I don't have the numbers on how often a quick slant is intercepted but I have to believe that on the whole, that play typically results in a completion and positive yards.

The Seahawks were in a position to score because of an extremely improbable catch that could have just as easily been intercepted as it was tipped up a couple times before the reception. I believe there is a lot more chance in these games than we are willing to acknowledge.

 

[az jam]

No doubt that Belichick out-coached Carroll. Lynch wasn't even lined up in the backfield on the last play. He was split out. Seahawks seemed confused.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think he didn't call TO because he thought he might need it on offense to try and get a game tying FG.

We'll never know, someone asked Belichick after the game if he'd considered letting them score, as the announcers were discussing, and he said absolutely not. Yet at least 2 of the NE players admitted after the game it was being discussed on the sideline by the coaches after the first down run by Lynch.

Carroll said the play call came from Bevell and was due to personnel groupings and it was the right call. Doug Baldwin said the entire offense was surprised a pass was called.

Coaches are going to tell you what they think makes them look better.

 

[TRW]

So right Mitch. That's exactly why the game is played, isn't it?

What if they run? They didn't.

Why did they pass? They did.

What if, what if...what if?

It is what makes football, particularly the NFL, such a great game.

Nice write up Mitch.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think they are both pretty good coaches but the Patriots won because their 4th or 5th best defensive back made an incredible break and even better catch on a quick slant. The throw was fairly accurate and it looked like the receiver was also in a spot to get that ball. I don't have the numbers on how often a quick slant is intercepted but I have to believe that on the whole, that pay typically results in a completion and positive yards.

The Seahawks were in a position to score because of an extremely improbable catch that could have just as easily been intercepted as it was tipped up a couple times before the reception. I believe there is a lot more chance in these games than we are willing to acknowledge.

I think the thing being lost in that play was had Seattle's play worked we'd have another controversy. Seattle ran a pick play, the problem is the Wr who'd just made the spectacular juggling catch, missed the pick. Had he gotten the pick and they score, we're all discussing how come they never call pick plays on the offense.

 

[don7031]

New England stopped Lynch two out of three times on third and short. Stoning Lynch for no gain is why Seattle had to settle for a field goal earlier in the game.

The Seahawks got what they wanted on that decisive play. They had a three wide receiver package matched up against New Englands heavy goal line defense. That's a coaching win. Then Malcolm Butler makes a great play and the Seahawk coaches are idiots.

 

[Russ Smith]

New England stopped Lynch two out of three times on third and short. Stoning Lynch for no gain is why Seattle had to settle for a field goal earlier in the game.

The Seahawks got what they wanted on that decisive play. They had a three wide receiver package matched up against New Englands heavy goal line defense. That's a coaching win. Then Malcolm Butler makes a great play and the Seahawk coaches are idiots.

For me it's not so much throwing the ball that was the problem, it's WHERE they threw the ball. Down there you throw it to the outside where if the WR cant' catch it, nobody can, or high over the middle where if the receiver can't catch it, it goes out of the endzone.

 

[don7031]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=400749027

There is a side view on that highlight package. The linebacker can't undercut the route. Butler just made a great play. He read the play and beat the receiver to the spot. That could happened no matter where the ball was thrown.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think that the quick thinking was the advantage of the defense at that moment. I also think that Belichek was looking in the backfield. If Lynch had lined up, he might have called a timeout.

He let Carroll outcoach himself.

BTW, I don't like either coach, but I like Carroll less. I am clad the Pats won.

 

[Mitch]

New England stopped Lynch two out of three times on third and short. Stoning Lynch for no gain is why Seattle had to settle for a field goal earlier in the game.

The Seahawks got what they wanted on that decisive play. They had a three wide receiver package matched up against New Englands heavy goal line defense. That's a coaching win. Then Malcolm Butler makes a great play and the Seahawk coaches are idiots.

Good points, Don, but Lynch had been wearing down the Pats' defense, just as 52 passes from Brady had been wearing down the Seahawks' pass rush.

Belichick said that they have different kinds of goal-line packages depending on what personnel the offense has in the game. If the personnel goes double TE power I, for example, they take out the CBs and send in extra LBers. It would have been a coaching win for Pete Carroll and Darell Bevell if an OLB was covering the slot and not a CB, which was not the case.

In this case, they had their CBs in the game because Seattle did not go into a jumbo package. And this is where coaching and preparation win ballgames because Malcolm Butler said that they knew what the Seahawks do out of their WR stacks and he did what he was coached to do which was to switch with Browner and jump the slant. Impressive that an undrafted rookie was so well prepared and ready to make the biggest play of the game at the most important time.

 

[Buckybird]

Imo I think Wilson was supposed to run off time then airmail the ball in the stands. Everyone on the Hawks sidelines looked shocked at a pass & that it was picked off.

The Pats DB made a great read, but I wonder how many Cards fans would've yelled PI had that play occurred against us? Granted the DB was going for the ball but he also appeared to contact & go thru the Hawk WR. Glad those ******* lost though

 

[GuernseyCard]

New England stopped Lynch two out of three times on third and short. Stoning Lynch for no gain is why Seattle had to settle for a field goal earlier in the game.

The Seahawks got what they wanted on that decisive play. They had a three wide receiver package matched up against New Englands heavy goal line defense. That's a coaching win. Then Malcolm Butler makes a great play and the Seahawk coaches are idiots.

It was a modified package. The corners stayed on the field.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

New England stopped Lynch two out of three times on third and short. Stoning Lynch for no gain is why Seattle had to settle for a field goal earlier in the game.

The Seahawks got what they wanted on that decisive play. They had a three wide receiver package matched up against New Englands heavy goal line defense. That's a coaching win. Then Malcolm Butler makes a great play and the Seahawk coaches are idiots.

The Seahawks failed to recognize that the coverage the Pats had setup with their 3 CB lineup.

The Pats expected pass from Seattle.

I can't find it on youtube, but Malcolm Butler said in a postgame interview "I don't why coach put me in, I didn't know why I was out there, so I just went with what we had done in practice."

 

[GuernseyCard]

Imo I think Wilson was supposed to run off time then airmail the ball in the stands. Everyone on the Hawks sidelines looked shocked at a pass & that it was picked off.

The Pats DB made a great read, but I wonder how many Cards fans would've yelled PI had that play occurred against us? Granted the DB was going for the ball but he also appeared to contact & go thru the Hawk WR. Glad those ******* lost though

That wasn't the call, according to Wilson, the H-C, the O-C.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think one thing about the play that isn't getting any traction at all is that they obviously ran a pick play and Seattle should have been penalized for it. Yes, the outcome didn't matter. However, if they did score on that play, the NFL would have had to come out later and say that they missed another crucial call.

 

[Southpaw]

I thought the call was fine. I also did not understand B B failure to call a timeout. The throw sucked. High and tight. Wilson seems to be getting little if any criticism. The rookie made the pick but his failure to stay in the end zone could have been fatal had it not been for the ensuing encroachment and meltdown brawl and the 15 yard penalty against Irvin. That enabled Pats to take a knee twice with yards to spare.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I call it luck what happened but there is a chance and it might not be so slight considering a coach like Belichick is pretty dang good... maybe he knew they where going to pass the ball on that play by their formation and Carroll's weird tendencies and ego and did not want to call a timeout to allow him to change his mind, he saw a opportunity much better than Lynch running for a touchdown

 

[conraddobler]

I must be the only one in America who thought that was very borderline pass interference?

The dude went through the WR to get the ball. I know that would never be called on a team like the Pats but if that is a Cardinal CB I'm praying right there for no flag.

 

[Buckybird]

That wasn't the call, according to Wilson, the H-C, the O-C.

I understand what was said after but I've also never have heard Carroll throw his players under the bus either. Not saying I'm right, but the whole play just seemed crazy how it played out & the surprised look on all the Hawks players & coaches faces.

 

[Buckybird]

I must be the only one in America who thought that was very borderline pass interference?

The dude went through the WR to get the ball. I know that would never be called on a team like the Pats but if that is a Cardinal CB I'm praying right there for no flag.

Nope. I said the same in this thread. I personally thought it was PI

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Knowing when to use timeouts in sports is an art form, isn't it?

Perhaps lost in the shuffle of last night's stunning victory for the Patriots was Bill Belichick's decision to let the clock run on 2nd and goal.

Knowing the Boston fans and media the way I do, had the Seahawks scored with 20 seconds left and Tom Brady was then unable to get the 40-50 yards necessary in a mere 20 seconds to attempt a game tying FG, Belichick would have been hammered unmercifully in much the same way Pete Carroll was/is getting hammered for electing to pass on 2nd and goal from the 1 yard line.

Belichick obviously was willing to accept an all or nothing goal-line stand with the Super Bowl on the line---when clearly he did not have to.

Now---why did he let the clock run?

Was it impulse?

Even though the Seahawks looked disorganized after the Kearse catch and had to use a TO---Lynch hammers down to the 1 yard line on 1st and goal---and everyone in the stadium knew that Lynch was going to get the ball on 2nd goal with a better than 60% chance of scoring the go-ahead TD.

Everyone that is, except Pete Carroll and Darrell Bevell...

And maybe one more person had a hunch...Bill Belichick.

Belichick said he wasn't surprised that the Seahawks passed the ball and that he knew the defense had to be ready for anything and everything.

The key to all of this happening was the Seahawks having to use their second timeout after the Kearse miracle.

Had the Seahawks two TOs left---Belichick would have used his TOs to stop the clock.

But the one TO left scenario had the Seahawks very clock-conscious---and when coaches and players are clock-conscious everything hastens, especially the play-calling and the execution of the plays.

Had Belichick used a TO after the Lynch run to the 1 yard line...now giving Pete Carroll and Darrel Bevell the time to think and more time on the clock, is there any chance at all the Seahawks would have passed the ball in that situation?

None.

Belichick therefore gambled that with the clock ticking the Seahawks might do something hasty---and by geez---they did.

Most likely what Belichick was hoping for is an off-sides penalty or a holding call, or botched up timing on the play---or just as much as anything---a stuff in the backfield.

Had one of those occurred---the Seahawks would have had to use their final TO---and with 20 seconds left they would have had to pass the ball at least on 3rd down and quite possibly on 4th down.

So Belichick let the Seahawks feel the pressure of the clock---and as it turns out his instincts were brilliant---

And...those same instincts were one Marshawn Lynch 1 yard run away from being hailed as one of the most boneheaded coaching decisions in Super Bowl history, especially when the coach has Tom Brady at QB.

So fine is the line between brilliant and boneheaded, isn't it?

It was reported on the radio this morning, that during the season the Seahawks had Lynch run the ball 5 times from the 1 yard line...the result? 1 touchdown in those 5 chances. Not a good ROI, however I would have still run Lynch last night and taken my chances with 20 seconds and a timeout.

 

[conraddobler]

Nope. I said the same in this thread. I personally thought it was PI

Then again we are biased because we are used to what Cardinal defenders are called for

 

[conraddobler]

I call it luck what happened but there is a chance and it might not be so slight considering a coach like Belichick is pretty dang good... maybe he knew they where going to pass the ball on that play by their formation and Carroll's weird tendencies and ego and did not want to call a timeout to allow him to change his mind, he saw a opportunity much better than Lynch running for a touchdown

I think he wasn't sure what to do and you are right he lucked out.

Thinking anything through at that moment would be a chore. I think he was absorbed and didn't put all that much thought into it.

 

[BillsCarnage]

I must be the only one in America who thought that was very borderline pass interference?

The dude went through the WR to get the ball. I know that would never be called on a team like the Pats but if that is a Cardinal CB I'm praying right there for no flag.

It's not borderline - in the refs eyes - when both players are going for the ball. As long as the defender is facing the ball he has every right for it as the WR does.