Broncos 30 Cards 21: Observations and Notes

[Mitch]

Playing the starters versus the Bronco's 2nd teamers was a lose-lose situation to begin with. If the starters dominate, as one would think they would, so what? The context is: they dominated 2nd stringers. If the starters don't dominate, as was the case in this game, what does that suggest about how ready and talented the starters are? Lose-lose. Factor in two other problems: (1) it's demoralizing for the Cardinal starters to be playing when other teams like the Patriots and Broncos are resting theirs...and by the lethargic looks on the Cards' starters' faces...this was apparent; (2) the starters are risking injury in a meaningless exhibition game, while playing against second stringers.

All this said...it was disappointing to see the starters play with such lethargy. This was quite a contrast to the fast-paced, upbeat and passionate tempo they provided versus the Cowboys in Game 1.

The great news: no significant injuries.

The saddest thing: watching Jerry Rice playing with the subs and obviously looking like he should have retired when he was still regarded the best WR to ever lace 'em up.

This week, I think I will comment on the performance of the individual players:

QB Warner: Pretty solid...nice TD throw to BJ.

QB McCown: Looked very poised and in control. Made some nice throws...but needs to make better things happen when he's on the move.

QB Navarre: Good game. Made some real nice throws...with zip and touch.

RB Arrington: Great feet, but no running room, even against 2nd stringers.

RB Shipp: This guy should be named team captain...he plays 100% all the time...never complains...has battled back from injury like a true warrior.

RB Jackson: Finally showed some production...but his upright style of running is a concern.

RB Anderson: Has more talent (better feet, hands, vision, body control), IMO, than Jackson...and much more upside on special teams.

FB Hodgins: His blocking technique has faltered...he runs too upright and is just lunging with outstretched arms and defenders, rather than establishing a low base and driving through the defender.

FB Ayanbadejo: Quite a valuable asset as a pass receiver out of the backfield. I hope they run that quick dive to him again this year. He was real good at running that.

TE Edwards: Good, solid performance. This guy is a good competitor.

TE Bergen: Excellent catch and run up the seam. Best hands at the position.

TE Bronson: Adds value on special teams. Made one nice tackle. I think they will add him to the practice squad.

WR Johnson: Nice game, save the one drop on third and seven. Has good chemistry with Warner.

WR Lee: Good game again. He has been an excellent acquisition.

WR Newhouse: Good game...is competent...and an asset on special teams. Made a nice scoop of the muffed fair catch, etc.

WR Sheldon: Practice squad bound. Needs to work on catching the ball with his hands and less with his body.

WR McCoy: Showed some skills this game. Nice to see him in action. PS bound.

WR Moses: Impressive start...nice speed and center of gravity...works his diminutive size to his advantage as he hides behind blockers...and reads the blocks pretty well.

OL: Shawn Lynch did a respectable job...Big was solid...Wells and Bridges not much in running game again...they lack technique (look at the Bronco's o-line technique...quite a disparity)...Ross was stronger this week...Elton played well, had nice blocks on Shipp's big plays...

DL: Pace was jumpy all night. Was active, but not as efficient. Davis got rooted out too easily. Dockett played at half speed, half the time. Okeafor was good. Bulman stacks the run...but can he do it when Davis needs a rest? The rest were ineffective. Depth is needed.

LB: Not sold on Huff. Doesn't look like a form tackler. Darling overcommitted on several plays. Dansby, like Dockett, played at half speed. Eric Johnson, Lance Mitchell and Daryl Blackstock played hard and reasonably well...with Mitchell showing improved instincts and toughness. Lester Towns whiffed on one tackle and got flagged for his second holding penalty on special teams in two games. Looks real rusty.

DB: Too much cushion and not enough reacting to the ball...a bad combination. Why the Cardinals don't even practice man-to-man in these games is mind boggling. Once again the TEs are WIDE OPEN EVERY PLAY...all in all, the coverage this pre-season has been pitiful. The most skilled cover man on the squad is Eric Green...the most skilled ballhawk...Antrel Rolle. Macklin has zero ball awareness thus far this year. The safeties are statues in coverage...maybe the worst coverage safeties in the league. Sorry. I am not purposely trying to be negative, just realistic. The biggest positive...Ernest Shazor looks more and more impressive with each performance.

ST: Player's punts were good...but his feeble tackling attempt was ridiculous. Yeah, he shouldn't risk injury in a pre-season game, but to do what he did was embarrassing. Rackers is awesome...those kickoffs were extraordinary. Hodel is first-rate.

The Broncos exposed all of the Cardinals' flaws. Bardlee Van Pelt is the kind of QB who can give the Cards firs because of his scranbling ability...which is why the Cards need DTs to finish off plays in the pocket, or QBs like Van Pelt will move the chains with regularity. Hopefully, we will see some innovative planning this week from the coaching staff...as they use this tape to their advatange. Everett Lindsey should take the o-linemen and show them the Broncos' run blocking techniques...which were near perfect, even from 2nd stringers.

 

[spanky1]

Walter,

Isn't it hockey players who "lace it up"?

 

[spanky1]

After reading, I think this is a superb post to get us focused on "where we go from here". Thanks Walter,

Couple of thoughts:

a) An elite punter (as= Scott Player), is the last person you want headhunting on a return. We've been blessed that Rackers ( now there is a swashbuckler to be sure) has been lucky to survive.

Player takes one for the team on this approach..... IMO.

I really like your point on Shipp for Team Captain......for all the right reasons. There are usually, what.....five Co-Captains? Add Boldin as the other, on offense. It would turn out to be a good motivator for the entire offense unit, including Fitzgerald (not that he needs motivation, this is for a being acknowledged by others as a team leader.....players who give "above and beyond". He would like to earn this distinction).


On the defensive side.... his name is Berry, and running shotgun with him would have to be Wilson.

The other team Captain comes from the ST'ers. I am not as knowledgable as to who is deserving here.

A very good read......once again.

 

[kerouac9]

QB Warner: Pretty solid...nice TD throw to BJ.

Man, what game were you watching? Warner looks really used up. We're going into battle with him this season, but if anyone expects more than an 80 QB rating from this guy... they're delusional...

 

[Duckjake]

Man, what game were you watching? Warner looks really used up. We're going into battle with him this season, but if anyone expects more than an 80 QB rating from this guy... they're delusional...

Don't overlook our WR's and especially Boldin's ability to make yards after catches. Both Fitz and Johnson have shown the ability to make circus catches. They should be able to keep Warner's rating near what it was with NY last season, 86.7.

For what it's woth... no team, other than the Jets, made the playoffs last year without either a great season from their QB (Plummer*,Brees,Roethlisberger) or having one of the NFL's superstar Qb's.(Brady,Manning,Vick,,Culpepper,McNabb,Farve). Even Pennington had a very good season compiling a 91 passer rating while handing off to Curtis Martin.

6-10 "should've been 8-8" with McCown's 74.1 should put the Cards into the NFC Championship with Warner in the 80's.


*Plummer threw for 4000 yards and 27 TD's a "great" season for him even though his rating wasn't that high.

 

[kerouac9]

Don't overlook our WR's and especially Boldin's ability to make yards after catches. Both Fitz and Johnson have shown the ability to make circus catches. They should be able to keep Warner's rating near what it was with NY last season, 86.7.

What's the YAC average from our starting WRs this preseason? I remember one memorable after the catch run in the last four games, and it was by Larry Fitzgerald...

 

[40yearfan]

What's the YAC average from our starting WRs this preseason? I remember one memorable after the catch run in the last four games, and it was by Larry Fitzgerald...

I thought everyone knew that pre-season didn't mean anything. Didn't someone on this very board say that all the veterans wanted to do was to make it through pre-season without getting injured and were mad they had to play?

 

[Redheart]

I thought everyone knew that pre-season didn't mean anything. Didn't someone on this very board say that all the veterans wanted to do was to make it through pre-season without getting injured and were mad they had to play?

Yea, who said that?

 

[Pariah]

What's the YAC average from our starting WRs this preseason? I remember one memorable after the catch run in the last four games, and it was by Larry Fitzgerald...

Dude, it gets old. We get it--you don't think Q is as good as people on this board think. You don't think he's as good as Fitz. But, if you look at NFL YAC stats, I'll bet you dollars to donuts Q kicks Fitz's arse in that caegory (in fact, I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to find a category that Q doesn't beat him in).

 

[Fiasco]

Maybe he has never seen Q play...

 

[kerouac9]

Maybe he has never seen Q play...

He was great at YAC two years ago as a rookie. Last season, he was pretty average on the outside--where he'll be playing this year, as well. This preseason, he's done very little after the catch.

For everything everyone's said about Warner's accuracy and ability to hit WRs in stride, we haven't seen it much this preseason. Depending on that to make the offense work this season doesn't seem like a very good idea.

 

[Pariah]

He was great at YAC two years ago as a rookie.

yup, he was.

Last season, he was pretty average on the outside--where he'll be playing this year, as well.

I haven't checked, but I'd bet he still had a better per game average YAC than Fitz last year.

This preseason, he's done very little after the catch.

As was alluded to earlier, does the preseason count towards evaluation or not? You seem to waffle on this point whenever it suits you.

 

[kerouac9]

yup, he was.

I haven't checked, but I'd bet he still had a better per game average YAC than Fitz last year.

As was alluded to earlier, does the preseason count towards evaluation or not? You seem to waffle on this point whenever it suits you.

Fitz wasn't good at YAC, either. He hasn't been that great this season. But I'm not saying that we ought to depend on YAC yards this year. Maybe Anquan's only good on YAC when Blake's throwing to him on underneath routes against prevent defenses. That's not a very good foundation for the 2005 season's offense.

There are things you can evaluate and things you can't. Players don't try to win games. I think that Kurt Warner was trying to throw accurate passes, he just didn't--because he can't anymore. Depending on him to hit WRs in stride after he was unable to do it in NY and seemingly unable to do it here seems to me like a bad idea.

But if you want to believe that Warner just wasn't giving 100% and putting the ball wherever, and can turn the accuracy on like a switch when the season starts, or that Anquan will suddenly be able to get YAC yards with a scatter arm QB when he wasn't able to last season--well, there's nothing I can do to change that. Just don't go asking what went wrong when this team is only putting up 17 points a game...

 

[CardShark]

He was great at YAC two years ago as a rookie. Last season, he was pretty average on the outside--where he'll be playing this year, as well. This preseason, he's done very little after the catch.

For everything everyone's said about Warner's accuracy and ability to hit WRs in stride, we haven't seen it much this preseason. Depending on that to make the offense work this season doesn't seem like a very good idea.

Haven't you noticed that there seems to be something getting in the way of Warner being able to set up properly so he can hit the receivers in stride?

It's called a pass rush. Until our O-Line blocks effectively, Warner is not going not going to be able to get his timing where it should be. He still has managed to drive us down for a couple TD's.

 

[kerouac9]

Haven't you noticed that there seems to be something getting in the way of Warner being able to set up properly so he can hit the receivers in stride?

It's called a pass rush. Until our O-Line blocks effectively, Warner is not going not going to be able to get his timing where it should be. He still has managed to drive us down for a couple TD's.

Before Friday, Warner hadn't been sacked one time. He'd had time to throw from the pocket in three out of four preseason games. His completion % has been pretty solid, it's just that his passes haven't been in a place where his targets could run with the ball afterward.

 

[Redsz]

Thanks for the write up Mitch. But I am so glad that the pre-season is over and we get the real deal now. Can't wait until opening day.

 

[Duckjake]

Before Friday, Warner hadn't been sacked one time. He'd had time to throw from the pocket in three out of four preseason games. His completion % has been pretty solid, it's just that his passes haven't been in a place where his targets could run with the ball afterward.

The 49 yard TD pass to Boldin that was nullified because BIG was too strong for the NFL was thrown from the 49 yard line?

Boldin was tackled immediatley on all 6 of his preseason catches? He racked up 68 yards on 5 grabs,having one for -1, without ever getting a single yard after catching a pass?

Didn't see the two games where Q played so would like to know.

 

[kerouac9]

The 49 yard TD pass to Boldin that was nullified because BIG was too strong for the NFL was thrown from the 49 yard line?

Boldin was tackled immediatley on all 6 of his preseason catches? He racked up 68 yards on 5 grabs,having one for -1, without ever getting a single yard after catching a pass?

Didn't see the two games where Q played so would like to know.

Anquan caught the ball at like the 5 yard line on the nullified play, yes.

Anquan has 6 receptions for 68 yards and a long of 25. Take away the long, and it's 5 for 33, which is less than seven yards per catch. Not much of an argument for him scampering through secondaries, is it? I'll admit that I don't really think that he's going to put himself at risk by going the extra mile for a preseason yard, but Warner isn't giving anyone a lot of space. If it were me, I'd fall into the fetal position after every catch; it's not like my job's at stake. Larry (minus 31 yard long--7 rec for 77 yards, 10 YPC) had the one 8 yard TD catch, but he had to get off the ground to do it.

I'm not saying that Anquan, Larry, or Bryant can't run with the ball after the catch. I'm saying that Warner can't deliver the ball to a spot where they can. I don't see anyone here saying that he has this preseason...

 

[kerouac9]

And not for nothing, but according to CNNSI, Larry had more YAC yards than Anquan last season, and Bryant Johnson had a higher YAC average.

 

[Duckjake]

Anquan caught the ball at like the 5 yard line on the nullified play, yes.

Anquan has 6 receptions for 68 yards and a long of 25. Take away the long, and it's 5 for 33, which is less than seven yards per catch. Not much of an argument for him scampering through secondaries, is it? I'll admit that I don't really think that he's going to put himself at risk by going the extra mile for a preseason yard, but Warner isn't giving anyone a lot of space. If it were me, I'd fall into the fetal position after every catch; it's not like my job's at stake. Larry (minus 31 yard long--7 rec for 77 yards, 10 YPC) had the one 8 yard TD catch, but he had to get off the ground to do it.

I'm not saying that Anquan, Larry, or Bryant can't run with the ball after the catch. I'm saying that Warner can't deliver the ball to a spot where they can. I don't see anyone here saying that he has this preseason...

Take away the one catch for -1 yard and Q has 5 for 67 for a 13.4 yard average. I always like how people manipulate stats. That's why I've always liked the signature someone on this board used to have: "Put down the stat book and watch some football!" It's why I was asking what Q was doing with the ball after he caught it.

 

[kerouac9]

Take away the one catch for -1 yard and Q has 5 for 67 for a 13.4 yard average.

Umm... I don't know what math you're doing, but if you drop the "outliers" (the highest and lowest yardage play), then you have 4 catches for 34 yards, and that's an 8.5 yard average. This isn't about where he's getting the ball, it's about what he's been able to do with it afterward, and the answer to that question is pretty obviously "nothing much."

Again, looking at how Anquan has played this preseason, he hasn't been scampering through secondaries like the Anquan of 2003, but going down pretty quickly, like the Anquan of 2004 (2.93 YAC/Catch). I'm not all that concerned about it, because I don't think that he's really putting his body at risk like that in the preseason.

What I am concerned about is that people here think that Warner's going to be better able to deliver the ball so that our guys can run with it than McCown was last year. I haven't seen that this preseason, and no one's stepping up to bat for Warner on this thread. I think that Warner may make some better decisions and take less killer sacks, but I don't think that we're going to see a redux of 2003 with Warner under center.

 

[Duckjake]

Umm... I don't know what math you're doing, but if you drop the "outliers" (the highest and lowest yardage play),

I was doing the opposite of what you were doing. Instead of taking away the longest I was taking away the shortest. Should have been easy to figure out from the "manipulate stats" comment.

 

[football karma]

By talking about Q's YAC, I think this thread went past the point where preseason actually means something.

Parsing any conclusion on the above from-- 1. Too small a sample set, and 2. From games that dont mean anything, and 3. Running game plans that are intentionally limited-- is a fools' errand.

Offensive line problems? I think that is a legitimate conclusion from the preseason. The finer points are a different matter.

 

[Redheart]

Umm... I don't know what math you're doing, but if you drop the "outliers" (the highest and lowest yardage play), then you have 4 catches for 34 yards, and that's an 8.5 yard average. This isn't about where he's getting the ball, it's about what he's been able to do with it afterward, and the answer to that question is pretty obviously "nothing much."

Again, looking at how Anquan has played this preseason, he hasn't been scampering through secondaries like the Anquan of 2003, but going down pretty quickly, like the Anquan of 2004 (2.93 YAC/Catch). I'm not all that concerned about it, because I don't think that he's really putting his body at risk like that in the preseason.

What I am concerned about is that people here think that Warner's going to be better able to deliver the ball so that our guys can run with it than McCown was last year. I haven't seen that this preseason, and no one's stepping up to bat for Warner on this thread. I think that Warner may make some better decisions and take less killer sacks, but I don't think that we're going to see a redux of 2003 with Warner under center.

The Q of 2003 was "unkown" coming out of pre-c. Well, unknown expect to the coaching staff and the ASFN-cult. Q then proceeded to explode in reg-c.

Listen to the recievers, particularly Q, they LOVE Warner. Most of the killer-sacks Warner has taken have come past Center; he will step into the sack to deliver...just freakin' scary. Joe Montana scary. The receivers know that Warner will put his body at-risk to deliver the ball.

Sadly, we will see Josh this year because of Warner's lion-heart. Josh, on the other hand, wants to scamper away from trouble because he knows he is a good athelete and his passing accuracy suffers because of it.

If Josh pick-up anything from Warner, I would want it to be Warner's discipline in reading his progressions, working the pocket and commitment to delivering the ball.

 

[Russ Smith]

Anquan caught the ball at like the 5 yard line on the nullified play, yes.

Anquan has 6 receptions for 68 yards and a long of 25. Take away the long, and it's 5 for 33, which is less than seven yards per catch. Not much of an argument for him scampering through secondaries, is it? I'll admit that I don't really think that he's going to put himself at risk by going the extra mile for a preseason yard, but Warner isn't giving anyone a lot of space. If it were me, I'd fall into the fetal position after every catch; it's not like my job's at stake. Larry (minus 31 yard long--7 rec for 77 yards, 10 YPC) had the one 8 yard TD catch, but he had to get off the ground to do it.

I'm not saying that Anquan, Larry, or Bryant can't run with the ball after the catch. I'm saying that Warner can't deliver the ball to a spot where they can. I don't see anyone here saying that he has this preseason...

And can you tell us what Anquan's stats were in 2003 preseason? I will save you the effort he had 4 catches for 44 yards, Johnson, Kasper and Gilmore all had more catches for more yards.

We can't tell anything from the preseason. Ron Johnson of the ravens led the NFL in receiving yards in 2003 preseason.