Bruce Arians - “Arizona Was Going to Draft Deshaun Watson”

[Ronin]

As usual, we can blame Keim because the Cardinals weren't proactive enough to move up and go after Mahomes & Watson. Harry, you've been around long enough to know that the Cardinals franchise NEVER EVER moved up in a situation like that. Bill didn't do it & neither did Michael. Until we moved up to pick Rosen, I'm not sure we EVER moved up to pick a QB in the 1st round. We pretty much always sat and waited. Exactly why I always prefer the Cardinals lose meaningless games at the end of the season. If we didn't have the 1st pick last year, we never would have moved up to try to pick Murray. Especially since Rosen flopped. We are not a dysfunctional franchise because of Steve Keim. We're dysfunctional because of the Bidwills. Don't get me wrong, the Bidwills are great people. But, boy do they struggle as owners of a professional football franchise.

I hope one day they will figure it out.

 

[Solar7]

As usual, we can blame Keim because the Cardinals weren't proactive enough to move up and go after Mahomes & Watson. Harry, you've been around long enough to know that the Cardinals franchise NEVER EVER moved up in a situation like that. Bill didn't do it & neither did Michael. Until we moved up to pick Rosen, I'm not sure we EVER moved up to pick a QB in the 1st round. We pretty much always sat and waited. Exactly why I always prefer the Cardinals lose meaningless games at the end of the season. If we didn't have the 1st pick last year, we never would have moved up to try to pick Murray. Especially since Rosen flopped. We are not a dysfunctional franchise because of Steve Keim. We're dysfunctional because of the Bidwills. Don't get me wrong, the Bidwills are great people. But, boy do they struggle as owners of a professional football franchise.

You act like moving up has really worked. As it stands right now, Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson are great trades up, Allen a good trade up, but Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, and Darnold are iffy trades up, Rosen, Mariota, Lynch, Freeman, Tebow, Gabbert, RG3, Manziel, and Bridgewater, disasters.

3/20 QBs in the past ten years that were really worth giving up picks for. Hard to blame Keim here.

 

[dscher]

This is what happens when you are reactive rather than proactive.

Exactly. Two teams who knew the Cards wanted and needed a qb.. something tells me an org who really wants a player or two should know the potential for that situation to happen..hence you make a package to trade up for the qb you really want so you don't get burned twice! This is keims reactionary nature at its finest. Imo

 

[Solar7]

Exactly. Two teams who knew the Cards wanted a qb.. something tells me an org who really wants a player or two should know the potential for that situation to happen..hence you make a package to trade up for the qb you really want so you don't get burned twice! This is keims reactionary nature at its finest. Imo

You can't sacrifice a ton of picks every year for whatever hot player you want at the moment. Think about Byron Murphy this year. We had him graded out as a top ten pick. How would you have reacted if we used our second and third, or even more, to go up and get him in the middle of the round?

This is purely revisionist thinking because those guys turned out to be good. What if we did it for Paxton Lynch, another guy we were reportedly just about to draft? You'd be pissed.

Mike Ditka proved years ago that you can't just throw away picks for a guy and hope he'll save your franchise.

Edit: https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2...eved-paxton-lynch-was-potentially-a-franchise

 

[b8rtm8nn]

You act like moving up has really worked. As it stands right now, Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson are great trades up, Allen a good trade up, but Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, and Darnold are iffy trades up, Rosen, Mariota, Lynch, Freeman, Tebow, Gabbert, RG3, Manziel, and Bridgewater, disasters.

3/20 QBs in the past ten years that were really worth giving up picks for. Hard to blame Keim here.

I think this is an example where Keim has stated one intention but his actions do not match.

He spoke about taking a QB every draft, but only drafted one during BAs tenure. He said you move up in the first round if a QB is there you love and can shape your team to come, but he didn't make plans to pick up either that year and was left empty handed after BA left, then finally traded up for Rosen, who isn't the one he actually wanted.

There is a pattern and it points to either Keim being a perpetual liar or just not good at his job.

 

[Solar7]

I think this is an example where Keim has stayed one intention but his actions do not match.

He spoke about taking a QB every draft, but only drafted one during BAs tenure. He said you move up in the first round if a QB is there you love and can shape your team to come, but he didn't make plans to pick up either that year and was left empty handed after BA left, then finally traded up for Rosen, who isn't the one he actually wanted.

There is a pattern and it points to either Keim being a perpetual liar or just not good at his job.

Keim sucks, but just because he didn't get to move up at the end of the day doesn't mean he wasn't trying. I think most of us would have thought at the time, an extra third would be enough to swap picks to #12. In fact, a lot of us wouldn't have been happy about it. When the Browns call you up and say "hey, we know you want Watson, but the Texans just offered us a first round pick," what do you offer back? Like, seriously, do you offer your own first round pick? That year's 2nd and 3rd? How do you beat that offer?

I'm still so lost on how anyone thinks we could have been competitive in that deal without giving up so much in the moment.

 

[dscher]

You can't sacrifice a ton of picks every year for whatever hot player you want at the moment. Think about Byron Murphy this year. We had him graded out as a top ten pick. How would you have reacted if we used our second and third, or even more, to go up and get him in the middle of the round?

This is purely revisionist thinking because those guys turned out to be good. What if we did it for Paxton Lynch, another guy we were reportedly just about to draft? You'd be pissed.

Mike Ditka proved years ago that you can't just throw away picks for a guy and hope he'll save your franchise.

Edit: https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2...eved-paxton-lynch-was-potentially-a-franchise

You don't have to try so hard to prove someone wrong. . My opinion is pretty firm that if an org really wants a QB, remember, a QB, then you do what it takes to get one of them. Now, I don't know what was or wasn't said on draft night or how they really felt about them at the time..but based on how much it was noted we were looking at the position that year, it seems extremely shortsighted from a managerial standpoint to get burned on both QBs you openly said you "wanted" afterwards. Just sayin. It's not a cornerback we are talking about here either. Jmo

 

[dscher]

Keim sucks, but just because he didn't get to move up at the end of the day doesn't mean he wasn't trying. I think most of us would have thought at the time, an extra third would be enough to swap picks to #12. In fact, a lot of us wouldn't have been happy about it. When the Browns call you up and say "hey, we know you want Watson, but the Texans just offered us a first round pick," what do you offer back? Like, seriously, do you offer your own first round pick? That year's 2nd and 3rd? How do you beat that offer?

I'm still so lost on how anyone thinks we could have been competitive in that deal without giving up so much in the moment.

Don't you think this would have been mentioned by the front office at some point afterwards? I would assume keim would have come out to save face and throw that out there if that was the case..

 

[Solar7]

You don't have to try so hard to prove someone wrong. . My opinion is pretty firm that if an org really wants a QB, remember, a QB, then you do what it takes to get one of them. Now, I don't know what was or wasn't said on draft night or how they really felt about them at the time..but based on how much it was noted we were looking at the position that year, it seems extremely shortsighted from a managerial standpoint to get burned on both QBs you openly said you "wanted" afterwards. Just sayin. It's not a cornerback we are talking about here either. Jmo

You ignored my comment about Paxton Lynch - a quarterback - who we said we wanted... how is that different than this, besides the two players being good?

 

[Solar7]

Don't you think this would have been mentioned by the front office at some point afterwards? I would assume keim would have come out to save face and throw that out there if that was the case..

Why would he have come out to save face? Teams almost never disclose who they were trying to get, at least not until years later. What good does it do for the franchise, ticket sales, or the choice of Haason Reddick to come out immediately and say "gee guys, this was really our third choice, but we got screwed?" I'm not sure you're thinking about this organizationally, just from a fan's lens, where ticket sales and all other things don't count.

 

[DVontel]

You act like moving up has really worked. As it stands right now, Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson are great trades up, Allen a good trade up, but Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, and Darnold are iffy trades up, Rosen, Mariota, Lynch, Freeman, Tebow, Gabbert, RG3, Manziel, and Bridgewater, disasters.

3/20 QBs in the past ten years that were really worth giving up picks for. Hard to blame Keim here.

How is Allen a good trade up, but Wentz is iffy?

 

[DVontel]

(I think both are decent trade ups fwiw)

 

[dscher]

You ignored my comment about Paxton Lynch - a quarterback - who we said we wanted... how is that different than this, besides the two players being good?

Did we hold a private workout for Paxton lynch like we did with Mahomes iirc? ...and still, even in response to lynch... If we were completely all in on him, then yes, I would say it's better to be proactive then reactive as a gm and go out aggressively for what you want for your team. Jmo

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

How is Allen a good trade up, but Wentz is iffy?

Because Wentz struggles to stay healthy?

 

[AZ Native]

I'm waiting for the BA scoop where he admits "retiring" in lieu of firing the most useless ST's coach in the history of the NFL.

 

[Solar7]

How is Allen a good trade up, but Wentz is iffy?

Wentz can't stay healthy and hasn't really elevated his team, as is one of your biggest concerns about QBs. Their playoff runs came with a guy who can't even handle sticking around as the starter on a team, which to me, says that the talent around Wentz is top-tier, and he's just barely struggling to survive in the playoff race.

Think I hate Kyler? That team would be leading the NFC East if they had him instead of Wentz.

 

[Solar7]

(I think both are decent trade ups fwiw)

Also, for what it's worth with both guys, I think Wentz can still potentially be really good. Allen has impressed me compared to his original concerns with accuracy issues and such, and he's just a tough guy doing good things in a place where a lot of players don't want to play. I also think he has a lot less weapons, and needs to do more himself.

He could easily drop. Both are "good quarterbacks" in my mind.

 

[DVontel]

Because Wentz struggles to stay healthy?

Been pretty healthy this year.

 

[dscher]

Why would he have come out to save face? Teams almost never disclose who they were trying to get, at least not until years later. What good does it do for the franchise, ticket sales, or the choice of Haason Reddick to come out immediately and say "gee guys, this was really our third choice, but we got screwed?" I'm not sure you're thinking about this organizationally, just from a fan's lens, where ticket sales and all other things don't count.

Now, that is funny! I think you're maybe not understanding from a fans lens then.. one could assume, as a fan, (like you and I are and nothing else) that as reports came out about the Cardinals being interested in both well after the fact, that if such things were to be said, what would be the the harm in throwing out the possibility of trading up along the way. This has nothing to do with organizational thinking, and all to do with common sense. At least from my perspective.

 

[BW52]

You act like moving up has really worked. As it stands right now, Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson are great trades up, Allen a good trade up, but Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, and Darnold are iffy trades up, Rosen, Mariota, Lynch, Freeman, Tebow, Gabbert, RG3, Manziel, and Bridgewater, disasters.

3/20 QBs in the past ten years that were really worth giving up picks for. Hard to blame Keim here.

How in the hell is Bridgewater a disaster?He has made a solid comeback from his near career ending injury and is 5-0 as a starter this year.He had more wins as a starter on his career than our current QB will likely get in 4 years.Bridgewater is 22-12 as a starter.1 Pro-Bowl,1 playoff game where he lead the team down the field in the last 3 minutes and the kicker shanked a FG.And he is still only 27 years old.Bridgewater would have been a solid QB to draft.

 

[PACardsFan]

I hope one day they will figure it out.

Me too! Like before my time on earth is over

 

[DVontel]

Wentz can't stay healthy and hasn't really elevated his team, as is one of your biggest concerns about QBs. Their playoff runs came with a guy who can't even handle sticking around as the starter on a team, which to me, says that the talent around Wentz is top-tier, and he's just barely struggling to survive in the playoff race.

Think I hate Kyler? That team would be leading the NFC East if they had him instead of Wentz.

I don’t think Wentz has been great or anything, but man it’s only so much you can do when your best two WRs is a RB & a guy that was a QB in college just 3 years ago. His WR group is honestly worse than ours last year. He has a solid TE in Ertz & a inconsistent, but talented TE in Goedert.

I don’t think he needs elite talent, but not downright garbage.

This might not mean much, but I think if you put Wentz on the Rams, they would be leading or at least tied in the entire conference right now.

 

[TheCardFan]

How is Allen a good trade up, but Wentz is iffy?

Agreed.

The crazy thing about the Wentz trade-up was they traded up to #2 early...basically accepting whomever the Rams didn't take. That is a bit unusual but they most have liked both.

 

[Solar7]

Now, that is funny! I think you're maybe not understanding from a fans lens then.. one could assume, as a fan, (like you and I are and nothing else) that as reports came out about the Cardinals being interested in both well after the fact, that if such things were to be said, what would be the the harm in throwing out the possibility of trading up along the way. This has nothing to do with organizational thinking, and all to do with common sense. At least from my perspective.

It was pretty clear leading up to the draft that we had interest in both guys. We worked them out, we openly talked about the need for an heir apparent to Palmer... hell, the board fought about the selection of any of the QBs pretty fervently all offseason, with a ton of people wanting to wait and skip these guys from "gimmick systems."

I am sure we discussed trading up. However, I think the mock draft scenarios that the team put together, like they do every year, didn't account that there was any possible chance of a team moving as far forward for those players, especially not from 27 to 10. I was pretty confident, and I'd imagine the team was, that at least one of Mahomes or Watson would end up making it back to us. Those leaps were unprecedented, and not even discussed as possibilities moving into the draft.

 

[Solar7]

How in the hell is Bridgewater a disaster?He has made a solid comeback from his near career ending injury and is 5-0 as a starter this year.He had more wins as a starter on his career than our current QB will likely get in 4 years.Bridgewater is 22-12 as a starter.1 Pro-Bowl,1 playoff game where he lead the team down the field in the last 3 minutes and the kicker shanked a FG.And he is still only 27 years old.Bridgewater would have been a solid QB to draft.

Bridgewater was a disaster for the team that gave up picks for him. When talking the draft, I don't talk about the future of the player that he didn't play for. If Kyler Murray leaves us in three years and wins seven championships with the Jaguars, but none for us, he will have been a bad pick for the Cardinals.