Bruce Arians: Ratings

[GimmedaBall]

Exactly. There's an old saying that still holds a lot of merit "put down the stat book and watch some film".

Don't GimmedaBall, Gimmeabreak. You have to do both to evaluate a player, it is not one over the other.

Where did you get the 'old saying' that you cite above?

Also, if you study film what do you do while looking at a given player? Take notes. Develop some stats so you can make a comparison with other players. Any data you collect, even if it is eyeballing a player, has to be documented and then compared to other players. Even if you have your own criteria, you still have to collect the stats.

 

[Duckjake]

Don't GimmedaBall, Gimmeabreak. You have to do both to evaluate a player, it is not one over the other.

Where did you get the 'old saying' that you cite above?

Also, if you study film what do you do while looking at a given player? Take notes. Develop some stats so you can make a comparison with other players. Any data you collect, even if it is eyeballing a player, has to be documented and then compared to other players. Even if you have your own criteria, you still have to collect the stats.

No you don't.

I look to see if a guy like Daryl Blackstock is slow compared to the other guys which he was. How quick is an offensive lineman off the ball? Things like that. I don't need a stat book to tell me that JJ Arrington was slow off the ball but had good speed once he got going. Or that Fred Wakefield wasn't a starting caliber NFL player or that Housler misses blocks.

I got that saying from a guy who was an NFL scout for 20+ years. How long have you been employed by an NFL team?

 

[mojorizen7]

You can slam stats, and numbers down my throat all you want, I don't care, I believe what I see, and believe in my own opinions on the matter.

Amen.

But, I at least try to respect what people are trying to say through said statistics.

I try too also, but as i'm fond of saying...this is football not baseball...so they can keep their conclusions based purely upon numbers.

 

[TigToad]

Thanks

Well Done.

I took me a second, but well done.

 

[cardncubfan]

why do you dislike dd so much? hes a nice guy and always gives us great 1 star threads

To be fair I believe DD started bagging on his posts basing player ability on stats from PFF & the like. I think Gimme just got tired of it.

 

[desertdawg]

I can count the number of people I have on ignore on less than one hand, but not only is he on ignore, fumbledaball gets that special finger.

 

[GimmedaBall]

I can count the number of people I have on ignore on less than one hand, but not only is he on ignore, fumbledaball gets that special finger.

Well, I guess if you have me on 'Ignore' you will not be reading this reply. It is good the number of people you have on ignore is less than one hand. Any number higher than that would be too difficult for your brain to fathom. And that special finger must be the one that you hold up when someone asks what your IQ is.

 

[GimmedaBall]

No you don't.

I look to see if a guy like Daryl Blackstock is slow compared to the other guys which he was. How quick is an offensive lineman off the ball? Things like that. I don't need a stat book to tell me that JJ Arrington was slow off the ball but had good speed once he got going. Or that Fred Wakefield wasn't a starting caliber NFL player or that Housler misses blocks.

I got that saying from a guy who was an NFL scout for 20+ years. How long have you been employed by an NFL team?

Oh yes I do.

So, how do you make the necessary comparisons? You have to time a player and then compare his times with other players before you can make those judgements. Break down the film on a player taking the ball---how long does it take him to get to the second level, etc. You count the number of times that Housler was called upon to throw a block then tally up the times he missed. Then you compare his stats with other TEs. By all means, bring a player in to evaluate for yourself and check his character and attitude and how he fits into your scheme---but don't downplay the statistical side of the modern game of football.

Take a look at SK giving the 'eyeball' to BA. Look on the table in front of both these guys. Do you think they don't have statistics at their disposal during the draft? I'm sure they have their own observations---their own numbers and notes on interviews, etc. But it is not strictly 'eyeballing'

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events/article-2/Steve-Keim-Time-With-The-Draft/994086f3-d506-432b-9de9-7b1532b9a0c0


So, you got that 'old saying' from an unnamed unemployed NFL scout. Here's another old saying for you, "Don't believe quotes from unnamed unemployed NFL scouts. Chances are they are an imaginary friend."

I never claimed to have been employed by an NFL team.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Why can't we all just be enemies... then friendship is the only possible progression lol

 

[GimmedaBall]

To be fair I believe DD started bagging on his posts basing player ability on stats from PFF & the like. I think Gimme just got tired of it.

Thanks for chiming in. Perhaps when can do this as a tag-team match on TV rasslin' LOL.

 

[desertdawg]

To be fair I believe DD started bagging on his posts basing player ability on stats from PFF & the like. I think Gimme just got tired of it.

LOL, I was the one who got tired/bored of it. I enjoy passionate discussions and listening to opinions, but there has to be a 2 way stream of intelligence or it just doesn't do it for me. Fumble can talk all the junk he wants, it's obvious who knows the team , and who has to look stuff up.

 

[TJ]

The amount of penis measuring in this thread is disconcerting.

 

[desertdawg]

The amount of penis measuring in this thread is disconcerting.

Akuna matada, I didn't land on this thread it landed on me. I thought once I put the cat on ignore, that would squash that. Pretty simple though, by any means of measurement, I would be Patrick Peterson in this equation and Fumble would be DRC. Arians is pretty much with me on the whole different duties thing, I see what P2 does out there on the field and some guys don't notice when a player is playing 2 different player's roles and what that does for a DC.... SOME GUYS see a "position" and then look at stats, and consider DRC to be on the same planet that P2 is. This should conclude the Fumble controversy, he stays on ignore, I 99 problems, but he aint one amigo.

 

[desertdawg]

Great...Arians is going to fail a drug test.

I'm gonna let that one slide man, keep that on the dee lee dawg.

 

[desertdawg]

Ahh, so now we all know what happened.

Dawg, you are no longer allowed to hang out with Cardinals players, you can still hang out with D-Waste, tho. He is barely a Cardinals player anymore.

I'm not even allowed to use the word Mikey.

 

[redheat]

Eh hopefully the coaches grades are accurate. It's always good to get an outside view but ya QBR is a joke Espn look at us stat.

Also, I never liked how they propped up the process of taking the best man on their board of Arrington in the 6th. The fact that you had Stepfan rated higher tells me the board wasn't right to begin with...

 

[desertdawg]

Just like P2, I only cover the best!!

 

[GimmedaBall]

Akuna matada, I didn't land on this thread it landed on me. I thought once I put the cat on ignore, that would squash that. Pretty simple though, by any means of measurement, I would be Patrick Peterson in this equation and Fumble would be DRC. Arians is pretty much with me on the whole different duties thing, I see what P2 does out there on the field and some guys don't notice when a player is playing 2 different player's roles and what that does for a DC.... SOME GUYS see a "position" and then look at stats, and consider DRC to be on the same planet that P2 is. This should conclude the Fumble controversy, he stays on ignore, I 99 problems, but he aint one amigo.

We already had this debate. I reported the stats gathered by PFF and their ratings of the CBs. I never said that was my personal ratings but you have somehow decided that I rated DRC over PP. I told you in the previous debate if you wanted to disagree with PFF to feel free to contact them and complain. Here's one of my statments from that previous pizzing contest:

Originally Posted by desertdawg
P2 is better than DRC, at coverage too, and it is about wins and losses, you win as a team and lose as a team. Even if you messed up 18 times in a game, if the game is close at the end, you still have a chance to help your team win. If you think DRC is even in the same League as P2, than perhaps reading my posts won't tickle your fancy.

And I already mentioned how players get worked from time to time, and they do have bad games, it doesn't make them DRC bad though so there you go. We'll see who is talented by how they get payed, I imagine those who think DRC should be paid more than P2, are the ones who wear tinfoil hats. Am I supposed to rebuttle by finding some bad day DRC had? I don't think so, because I have seen them both play in person. DRC thinks about himself and early retirement, P2 is one of the best at was he does, and not too many people have the responsibilities that P2 has, so you can spin it how ever you want.


"We were debating Peterson's stats. Whether we won or lost vs Titans is separate from his stats in that game. But it sure looked as if Peterson was trying to give the game to the Titans.

You will have to take your disagreement regarding Peterson vs. DRC to the editors of ProFootball Focus and tickle their fancy with your argument. I simply repeated their ratings. You must have some secret metrics----PFF grades every play and every player. Their stats are usually right on so have your data ready to deliver to them. Seeing both DRC and Peterson play in person is not the same as tracking every play and every player for the entire season . . . at least I don't think it is. Also, how can you possibly know what DRC is thinking about while he is playing?


From the PFF Top 101 players of 2013:

Sherman at #6
DRC at #36
Peterson at #58
Haden at #75

Here's their link: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/05/16/the-pff-101-top-to-bottom/

Let us know how they respond after you e-mail and tell them that you think Peterson should be rated higher than DRC just because.."


I later provided other links to ratings regarding PP. You do not provide any support for your statements except to claim that you are right and know the team. I give my support and you want to belittle the effort. Sorry Slugboy, that only convinces the other Cardinals fans who are also living in a van down by the river.

 

[desertdawg]

Just like P2, I only cover the best.

# ... :suckitdotcom:

 

[52brandon]

lol @ DRC being better than Peterson

 

[TJ]

Akuna matada, I didn't land on this thread it landed on me. I thought once I put the cat on ignore, that would squash that. Pretty simple though, by any means of measurement, I would be Patrick Peterson in this equation and Fumble would be DRC. Arians is pretty much with me on the whole different duties thing, I see what P2 does out there on the field and some guys don't notice when a player is playing 2 different player's roles and what that does for a DC.... SOME GUYS see a "position" and then look at stats, and consider DRC to be on the same planet that P2 is. This should conclude the Fumble controversy, he stays on ignore, I 99 problems, but he aint one amigo.

So this is all over an assertion that because PFF indicates that DRC is rated higher than PP21 that he's a better corner? Wonder why DRC didn't get Sherman or Haden money this offseason

PFF (or FO; one of those sites) once had Kevin Walter as a better wideout than Larry Fitzgerald, amongst other head scratchers. Take advanced metrics with a grain of salt and trust your eyes.

 

[desertdawg]

So this is all over an assertion that because PFF indicates that DRC is rated higher than PP21 that he's a better corner? Wonder why DRC didn't get Sherman or Haden money this offseason

PFF (or FO; one of those sites) once had Kevin Walter as a better wideout than Larry Fitzgerald, amongst other head scratchers. Take advanced metrics with a grain of salt and trust your eyes.

I just bought a brand new pair of prescription Oakleys so I'm down.

 

[Snakester]

Great...Arians is going to fail a drug test.

Now that's funny! Great start to my morning with a laugh.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The amount of penis measuring in this thread is disconcerting.

+1.

My favorites is that the topic of the thread is about how Arians doesn't care about there advanced stats, and ratings sites, and then was called out for it, like he did in fact care, and this was all leverage to get his players higher on a list, or something to that insane fact.

At that point of complete devoid logic and reasoning I left, and figured the topic, and thread was ruined.

If I want to read PFF, or any other site, I'll do it. To have it constantly jammed down ones throat with a childish, pretenious "neener, neener" attitude is abrasive, and makes it not worth bothering with. Yet, the constant back and forth about it, doesn't help either.

Point of the thread is, thank goodness out staff trusts their opinions. Some of these coaches have coaching 10 times longer than these statistical sites have been around. I trust experience over anything, but that is just me. Stats have their place, but they are not the end all.

/end thread.

 

[BigRedRage]

Well, I guess if you have me on 'Ignore' you will not be reading this reply. It is good the number of people you have on ignore is less than one hand. Any number higher than that would be too difficult for your brain to fathom. And that special finger must be the one that you hold up when someone asks what your IQ is.

wow

i predict you are banned before too long if you dont learn how to play nice. Ive never seen anyone specifically attack your intelligence or anything besides arguing a post you made yet you are constantly incredibly negative and derogatory toward other posters.

Ive had my tiffs with people on here, I still like everyone and have nothing inflammatory to say about any of them. Your behavior is not condusive so what skkorp built.

DD is a smart cat, just because you rely on stats and metrics and he doesnt has nothing to do with his or your intelligence.