Budda Baker getting paid

[Chopper0080]

Contract numbers are out...apparently I am not just playing with numbers all I want...

If you want me to spin the numbers, I can though.

If you take the entire hit of this contract, 2020 through 2024, less the 14.2 mil in the final year but still counting the dead money on that final year (3.775 mil), you get a 4 year 46,973,172 contract with 3.775 mil in dead money on the 5th year. That broken down over years is 11,743,293 per year OR 10.8 mil over 4 years with a 3.775 voided year at the end.

 

[wit3card]

If you want me to spin the numbers, I can though.

If you take the entire hit of this contract, 2020 through 2024, less the 14.2 mil in the final year but still counting the dead money on that final year (3.775 mil), you get a 4 year 46,973,172 contract with 3.775 mil in dead money on the 5th year. That broken down over years is 11,743,293 per year OR 10.8 mil over 4 years with a 3.775 voided year at the end.

that sounds about what you wrote back then what Keim should do this off-season ... PP21 and CJ contracts missing but still...

 

[kerouac9]

I will never understand the instinct to show highlight videos in response to a question of whether someone does something well.

Check out these 35 cherry-picked plays from over 1000 last season! See! He could cover a hobbled George Kittle these times!

 

[GuernseyCard]

gaslighting. he asked legitimate questions. he didn't slam you or make childish comments. why not just answer his questions?

here they are again:

Does he cover TEs Well?

Does he have the ability to lockdown and cover a RB who goes out in the passing game?

Can he cover a WR in a pinch? Or be counted on to break a pass on a long ball down the middle?

How many pass break ups does he get annually? What’s the completion % against him and The QB rating when throwing his way?

Personally, I think it's a massive overpay for a one-dimensional S who was one amongst many issues in our pass defense last year. and we've never seen him be good in pass defense the previous couple years either. in a pass-happy league, I just don't think he's worth what we're paying him.

Why do I get the feeling that these type of questions and more were factored into the decision to give him an extension?

 

[Ronin]

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[kerouac9]

I dunno if anyone ever posted this, but it's pretty great:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-breaki...udda-baker-highest-paid-safety-in-nfl-history

You must be registered for see images attach

You know I don't love PFF grades, but if you're someone who cares about them...

His PFF coverage grade has risen steadily in each of the past three seasons — from 57.0 as a rookie to 60.6 in 2018 to 64.8 this past season — and it appears as if the Cardinals are banking on that trajectory continuing upward as they move forward with this contract.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why do I get the feeling that these type of questions and more were factored into the decision to give him an extension?

yeah... we understand the Cardinals valued him at that price. I'm sure a lot of factors were given thought before signing Jermaine Grisham to an idiotic 3 year 21 million dollar deal. Or signing Sam Bradford to a 20 million dollar deal. Or giving an injured David Johnson a huge deal. I'm asking you YOUR opinion watching him based on those questions.

You're acting like @Folster in the politics section.

 

[Shane]

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Does he cover TEs Well?

• at the 0:25 mark vs George Kittle

Can he cover a WR in a pinch? Or be counted on to break a pass on a long ball down the middle?

• at the 0:48 mark vs Emanuel Sanders
• at the 1:14 mark vs Chris Godwin

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Does he cover TEs Well?

• at the 0:49 mark vs George Kittle

Does he have the ability to lockdown and cover a RB who goes out in the passing game?

• 0:35 mark vs Christian McCaffery

Can he cover a WR in a pinch? Or be counted on to break a pass on a long ball down the middle?

• at the 1:11 mark vs Tyler Lockett

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Does he cover TEs Well?

• at the 1:00 mark vs Gerald Everett
• at the 2:01 mark vs James O'Shaughnessy

Can he cover a WR in a pinch? Or be counted on to break a pass on a long ball down the middle?

• at the 1:30 mark vs Cowboys

Lmao cherry picky a few plays in a season doesn’t tell you the player. He clearly can’t cover well and I’m pretty sure you know it and are being disingenuous. His stats speak for themself quite clearly and loudly.

 

[GuernseyCard]

yeah... we understand the Cardinals valued him at that price. I'm sure a lot of factors were given thought before signing Jermaine Grisham to an idiotic 3 year 21 million dollar deal. Or signing Sam Bradford to a 20 million dollar deal. Or giving an injured David Johnson a huge deal. I'm asking you YOUR opinion watching him based on those questions.

You're acting like @Folster in the politics section.

My opinion?

I like him.

Correction: I like him a lot.

 

[cardpa]

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This is one that sticks out in my mind. Not only gets beaten badly on the route but gets decimated trying to make a tackle.

 

[daves]

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This is one that sticks out in my mind. Not only gets beaten badly on the route but gets decimated trying to make a tackle.

I think that play sticks out in everyone's mind... but aside from that play, Baker was playing very well overall and even making some big plays against Kittle, and the announcers were calling attention to it throughout the game.

https://www.azcardinals.com/video/full-highlights-49ers-vs-cardinals-2019

...dave

 

[Cheesebeef]

My opinion?

I like him.

Correction: I like him a lot.

Okay... you like him. You like him a lot. Unfortunately, I didn’t ask a question regarding whether you like him or not. All my questions pertained to his coverage skills and yet you still refuse to answer them. Instead, you choose to gaslight... again.

But I won’t ask again. You’re silence on the questions about his coverage skills speaks volumes anyway.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So @Ouchie-Z-Clown , @cheesebeef , @Shane and all the others saying it is too much - what do you think he is worth?

Less

 

[Cheesebeef]

Less

I haven’t done a rundown on all the safeties in the league and their salaries, but a one dimensional box S in a pass happy league shouldn’t not be set the market for after one Pro-Bowl season at the position, while still being awful in pass defense.

 

[BritCard]

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This is one that sticks out in my mind. Not only gets beaten badly on the route but gets decimated trying to make a tackle.

5'10" 200lb safety got bulldozed by a 6'5" 250lb TE who's renowned as one of the hardest to tackle players in the league? Color me shocked.

As Derwin James is proving. The best ability is availability and Budda plays pretty much every snap, every season. He's a leader on the defense. He's still only 24 years old and highly talented.

Why do people think a contract that runs through the peak years of his career would pay him for what he is and not factor in what he probably will be?

If you were 24 years old and getting better every year would you sign a contract that pays you for what you have been and not what you will be during the peak and most valuable seasons of your career?

 

[GuernseyCard]

Okay... you like him. You like him a lot. Unfortunately, I didn’t ask a question regarding whether you like him or not. All my questions pertained to his coverage skills and yet you still refuse to answer them. Instead, you choose to gaslight... again.

But I won’t ask again. You’re silence on the questions about his coverage skills speaks volumes anyway.

BritCard did a fine résume of my thoughts above.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think Budda Baker is a good player who is still getting better who has warts. He's not perfect.

But as @Chopper0080 has demonstrated, a good chunk of the "highest paid for his position" is really just window dressing.

Teams don't get better by letting good players walk.

 

[Chopper0080]

I haven’t done a rundown on all the safeties in the league and their salaries, but a one dimensional box S in a pass happy league shouldn’t not be set the market for after one Pro-Bowl season at the position, while still being awful in pass defense.

The real question is where people on this board think he aligns in terms of talent. Is he similar to Landon Collins (I would say he is)?

When you start identifying his comps, then we can discuss his salary. Here is the exercise. Rank the below group of S's (selected as Ss averaging over 9 mil per year)

Budda Baker S Cardinals
Eddie Jackson S Bears
Kevin Byard S Titans
Landon Collins S Washington
Tyrann Mathieu S Chiefs
Devin McCourty S Patriots
Anthony Harris S Vikings
Justin Simmons S Broncos
Kareem Jackson S Broncos
Lamarcus Joyner S Raiders
Harrison Smith S Vikings
Jordan Poyer S Bills
Jimmie Ward S 49ers
Adrian Amos S Packers

 

[BritCard]

The real question is where people on this board think he aligns in terms of talent. Is he similar to Landon Collins (I would say he is)?

When you start identifying his comps, then we can discuss his salary. Here is the exercise. Rank the below group of S's (selected as Ss averaging over 9 mil per year)

Budda Baker S Cardinals
Eddie Jackson S Bears
Kevin Byard S Titans
Landon Collins S Washington
Tyrann Mathieu S Chiefs
Devin McCourty S Patriots
Anthony Harris S Vikings
Justin Simmons S Broncos
Kareem Jackson S Broncos
Lamarcus Joyner S Raiders
Harrison Smith S Vikings
Jordan Poyer S Bills
Jimmie Ward S 49ers
Adrian Amos S Packers

Ranking is tough. Some of these guys like McCourty and Kareem Jackson are getting paid as known quantities already at their peak or declining.

Budda is young and on the rise. That has to be taken into account.

Then you have guys like Eddie Jackson. Do you recall how he was gods gift in 2018 and not so much last year? Team performance matters too. So ranking is hard.

Players there that I would trade Budda for are...well nobody really.

Everybody there is at least a year older than Budda. I would have took Eddie Jackson who is a year older if last year was like his 2018 season, but it wasn't close. Justin Simmons had a great year last year, better than Budda, but he's two years older than Budda.

I'm happy to bet Budda can be as good as both those guys with that extra time to develop.

And look at Eddie Jackson with Fangio and without. I'm no VJ fan, put Budda with a better DC and watch him kick on even more.

 

[kerouac9]

5'10" 200lb safety got bulldozed by a 6'5" 250lb TE who's renowned as one of the hardest to tackle players in the league? Color me shocked.

As Derwin James is proving. The best ability is availability and Budda plays pretty much every snap, every season. He's a leader on the defense. He's still only 24 years old and highly talented.

Why do people think a contract that runs through the peak years of his career would pay him for what he is and not factor in what he probably will be?

If you were 24 years old and getting better every year would you sign a contract that pays you for what you have been and not what you will be during the peak and most valuable seasons of your career?

I think the way that good teams stay good is by players outperforming their contracts. There's no way for Budda Baker to outperform his contract, even if he maxes out his talent level. So the best-case scenario is that he's playing to the level of his contract.

I don't understand why you were triggered by the D.J. Humphries contract but not by this one. It seems to me they balance out basically the same. If you were concerned about Humphries' extension, you should be concerned about this one, and if you weren't bothered by Hump's new deal, you should be cool with this one.

Keim doesn't get much credit from me for paying guys at the level he hopes they get to (or get back to). This is how we ended up with dumb contracts for David Johnson, Tyrann Matthieu, Jermaine Gresham, Sam Bradford, Terrell Suggs, et al.

A good example of a guy outperforming his contract in the first year of his deal is Jordan Hicks. I'm not a huge fan of Jordan Hicks, but he definitely outperformed his $6.3 million cap number last year, and I expect he'll outperform his $10 million cap number this year as long as he's healthy.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think the way that good teams stay good is by players outperforming their contracts. There's no way for Budda Baker to outperform his contract, even if he maxes out his talent level. So the best-case scenario is that he's playing to the level of his contract.

I don't understand why you were triggered by the D.J. Humphries contract but not by this one. It seems to me they balance out basically the same. If you were concerned about Humphries' extension, you should be concerned about this one, and if you weren't bothered by Hump's new deal, you should be cool with this one.

Keim doesn't get much credit from me for paying guys at the level he hopes they get to (or get back to). This is how we ended up with dumb contracts for David Johnson, Tyrann Matthieu, Jermaine Gresham, Sam Bradford, Terrell Suggs, et al.

A good example of a guy outperforming his contract in the first year of his deal is Jordan Hicks. I'm not a huge fan of Jordan Hicks, but he definitely outperformed his $6.3 million cap number last year, and I expect he'll outperform his $10 million cap number this year as long as he's healthy.

I don't disagree with this, but I also think the rules are different when you have what you believe to be your franchise QB on a rookie deal. In our circumstance, we should just be trying to get (or keep) as much talent on the roster as possible during this time. The price of that talent is not irrelevant, but you have to be less sensitive to it. I think that is why you pay Humphries, Baker, probably Peterson & Jones, and trade for Hopkins. Maximize this window and once the window is gone, then you make the hard choices.

 

[BritCard]

I think the way that good teams stay good is by players outperforming their contracts. There's no way for Budda Baker to outperform his contract, even if he maxes out his talent level. So the best-case scenario is that he's playing to the level of his contract.

I don't understand why you were triggered by the D.J. Humphries contract but not by this one. It seems to me they balance out basically the same. If you were concerned about Humphries' extension, you should be concerned about this one, and if you weren't bothered by Hump's new deal, you should be cool with this one.

Keim doesn't get much credit from me for paying guys at the level he hopes they get to (or get back to). This is how we ended up with dumb contracts for David Johnson, Tyrann Matthieu, Jermaine Gresham, Sam Bradford, Terrell Suggs, et al.

A good example of a guy outperforming his contract in the first year of his deal is Jordan Hicks. I'm not a huge fan of Jordan Hicks, but he definitely outperformed his $6.3 million cap number last year, and I expect he'll outperform his $10 million cap number this year as long as he's healthy.

I don't disagree with your thinking but in a year or two when Budda is at his peak top safeties will be earning $17-18m a season and thats when he will outperform his contract.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't disagree with this, but I also think the rules are different when you have what you believe to be your franchise QB on a rookie deal. In our circumstance, we should just be trying to get (or keep) as much talent on the roster as possible during this time. The price of that talent is not irrelevant, but you have to be less sensitive to it. I think that is why you pay Humphries, Baker, probably Peterson & Jones, and trade for Hopkins. Maximize this window and once the window is gone, then you make the hard choices.

Yes. I actually don't have a problem with this extension. I have a problem with thinking that the deal is somehow fair or good and represents a savvy move by Keim. Obviously, it's probably an overpay, but Krang is right that you don't get better by removing your good players.

As I said earlier, I think that Budda can be the fifth- or sixth-best player on a good defense. Hopefully Simmons comes along quickly and Murphy takes a couple of steps forward.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

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Does he cover TEs Well?

• at the 0:25 mark vs George Kittle

Can he cover a WR in a pinch? Or be counted on to break a pass on a long ball down the middle?

• at the 0:48 mark vs Emanuel Sanders
• at the 1:14 mark vs Chris Godwin

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Does he cover TEs Well?

• at the 0:49 mark vs George Kittle

Does he have the ability to lockdown and cover a RB who goes out in the passing game?

• 0:35 mark vs Christian McCaffery

Can he cover a WR in a pinch? Or be counted on to break a pass on a long ball down the middle?

• at the 1:11 mark vs Tyler Lockett

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Does he cover TEs Well?

• at the 1:00 mark vs Gerald Everett
• at the 2:01 mark vs James O'Shaughnessy

Can he cover a WR in a pinch? Or be counted on to break a pass on a long ball down the middle?

• at the 1:30 mark vs Cowboys

I think you are conflating making good plays with playing well. Budda is a good player that can make good plays. He is often out of position and doesn't cover well for the most part. You can't give up 5TDs and a 115 passer rating if you are good with that part of your game.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think you are conflating making good plays with playing well. Budda is a good player that can make good plays. He is often out of position and doesn't cover well for the most part. You can't give up 5TDs and a 115 passer rating if you are good with that part of your game.

I am going to defend Baker a bit in this regard. If you are asking your QB to learn a 3rd playbook in 3 seasons, he is likely not going to be making spectacular plays or maximizing the playbook/audible system. That is something that takes time and repetition to accomplish.

I have a similar viewpoint and perspective with Budda Baker. Guy has learned three systems in three years and played different roles in each of them. Initially as a sub package CB/S, then a SS, and most recently as a FS. I point this out because it is tough to diagnose what the offense is doing when you are trying to ensure you are in your correct place and then also trying to help others in the scheme. It is a bit disingenuous to state that Baker doesn't make enough plays when he has spent every offseason figuring out what he is being asked to do now, and then learning to play with Tre Boston, Antoine Bethea, DJ Swearinger, Dionte Thompson and Jalen Thompson over the past two seasons.

I am not saying he has been put in a position to fail, but he definitely has not been put in a position to succeed.