Calvin Pace in a Sun Devils uni (#48). Let him play the edge. What do you have?

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Lex
But no...that player went at #10, and was the first DE taken in the draft. No team that needed a DE passed on Suggs...except us.

Technically, Lex, he was the first LB taken in the draft.

I wanted him, too, but I don't think we would have been able to swing a deal to get down for another #1 and still have a chance to draft Suggs. If we'd traded into the #9 slot and he was still there, or into the #10 spot with the Ravens somehow, yeah I think we would have taken him, but it seems that we wanted a #1 pick at WR, and were willing to settle for an inflated 2nd roud DE to do so.

What I don't understand is why we mortgaged the present (rookie DEs typically have a much greater effect than rookie WRs) to maybe get better two years from now (Freddy Mitchell, anyone?). I guess we'll have to trust Graves' judgement (*shudder*).

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Floridacard
How about our scouts finding the players that no one else thought were any good. Mckinnon, Shipp, Lassiter etc. Let's see how Pace does before we blast him and say we should've taken Suggs.

Those were all undrafted free agents. The risk is really low. If Pace and/or Johnson don't pan out, and Suggs turns into a superstar, it'll set this team back (again!) at least two years.

 

[Lex]

Actually, Kerouac, Suggs had never played LB till the Ravens mini camp, so I don't see how he was a LB in the draft.

I find it ironic that only two teams traded DOWN in the draft, that should tell us all something.

The REAL question is WHY were we so worried about getting recievers? Who did we make the deal with, who did we promise? Was it Sully? Was it Blake? Or was it Emmitt.

The entire off season advertising campaign features Emmitt Smith. A freaking cowgirl. I sure hope we didn't mortgage the future to make an ex-cowgirl decide to come here and pad his stats, and sell tickets to cowgirl fans.

 

[nidan]

We will never know what Suggs would have been like as a DE, get over it.

How he does as a LB in a 3-4 has no bearing on the subject

 

[Lex]

Nidan- perhaps if you keep posting that rubbish long enough, it'll stick.

We have been dead last in sacks for two years. I really don't care where the sacker lined up, before the sack.

We know what Suggs was like as a DE. The all time NCAA sack leader.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Lex
Dback- you bring up the other thing that bugs me, "9 other teams passed on him" Bull. The teams that took offensive players didn't pass on him, the teams that needed tackles didn't pass on him either. This and the "tweener" thing, with the "he's not suited to a 4-3," are the three falsehoods used by the people trying to justify the reasoning for not taking Suggs. Pace and Suggs are the same size.

We passed on Suggs, because we were so afraid Johnson would be gone by our 2nd round pick, and we got two 1st round players for 2 million less than we'd have spent on the 6 pick.

Oh by the way, I think Suggs will be a 10 year pro bowler, and he could end up being compared to players like Deacon Jones, an innovator at the rush position. Suggs already holds the all time NCAA sack record.

Falsehoods? Hmmm.....Pace is 269 lbs, while Suggs is 240.....talk about falsehoods! :rolleyeyes:

And many people view Suggs as a tweener. Before the draft All Pro Bowl offensive tackle Jon Jansen was talking about Suggs, and multiple times he called him a tweener, and he generally wasn't impressed with Suggs.

Suggs might get 10 sacks a year, but I think the Cards staff had memories of Simeon Rice in run defense...

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Lex
Suggs already holds the all time NCAA sack record.

Sack leader since 2000. Not All Time.

 

[Lex]

Suggs is 240? Come on Krang, who are you trying to kid?

Look, even if Suggs only gets 10 sacks a year, we blew it by passing on him.

You and I will get a first hand look at T-Sizzle, at Sun Devil on Oct. 12. I'll bet Suggs sells more tickets for that game, than Emmitt sells for the entire year.

 

[Lex]

Double 1- before 2000 who had more sacks in a year than Suggs last year?

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by Lex


I'll bet Suggs sells more tickets for that game, than Emmitt sells for the entire year.

Who's gonna buy them? Yes, many of his friends and family will.
ASU fans - not a chance - the ones that sold out SDS everytime their hero Jake played? The ones that are demonizing the Cards do to the Stadium issue?

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by Lex
Double 1- before 2000 who had more sacks in a year than Suggs last year?

Records were not kept before then - moot point.

 

[Lex]

The moot point...is that they just started keeping the stat. That fact has absolutley nothing to do with the fact that Suggs DOES hold the record. Period.

Last I heard, the Cards had sold 150 #22 jersey's. Big deal.

Suggs will be a draw because he'll be a star, and because most people here are wagon jumpers.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Holian
I have 2 Arizona State games taped (Holiday Bowl and Stanford game) and it really is amazing how much they moved Terrell Suggs around on that defensive line. The coaching staff at ASU gave him every concievable opportunity to get pressure on the quarterback. I counted in the Stanford game where he moved from right to left end at least 12 times during the game and there were times when the guy was a full 3 yards wider then everyone else (on the edge).

Now put Calvin Pace in a Sun Devils uniform, slap a #48 on his back and put him way out on the edge, move him all over the line, pin his ears back and see what happens. Maybe not 24 sacks (ala Suggs) but I guarantee the kid gets more than the 8 he had at Wake Forest. It really is amazing that a kid who played end in a 3-4 defense was an 8 sack guy. What would Terrell Suggs have done if the tables were reversed and he had to play left end in a 3-4 for Wake Forest? Does Suggs still get 24 sacks in that situation?

I think it is called coaching and putting what players you have in the best position to succeed. Let's just hope that Mac and Green (and the new guy) can put Pace in a situation where he can succeed. I have my doubts since our DL has stunk and the responsibility for that falls on Green...IMO

 

[ajcardfan]

Calvin Pace in a Sun Devils uni (#48). Let him play the edge. What do you have?

Easy. A poor man's Terrell Suggs!!!



Hell, I'll be happy if Pace gives us 6 sacks this year. I don't care where he lines up. Even if we got special permission from the NFL to line him up in the other team's backfield, I think 6 sacks would be wonderful. He'd still look like the second coming of LT to me. After watching the most pathetic pass rush in NFL history the last two seasons, I'll admit that I'm going to be easy to impress next year.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Well, I personally agree about who cares about Suggs v. Pace because it's a moot point.
Second that. There's no objective measure for comparison. We'll see what happens when it happens.

man i cannot wait to see pace out there on the end on opening day!

I hope he gets 8,000 sacks

 

[Shuesters2]

Pace vs Suggs,
Thats not correct. We got Pace and Johnson for that pick and Suggs is playing linebacker. Other than losing the 4th pick I liked the trade down.

Shuesters.

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by Lex
You and I will get a first hand look at T-Sizzle, at Sun Devil on Oct. 12. I'll bet Suggs sells more tickets for that game, than Emmitt sells for the entire year.

<p>Lex--do you really think Suggs is going to sell more tickets in one game than Emmitt does in 10 games? I noticed even with the record setting year he had last year that ASU still wasn't selling out any games. I think Emmitt will sell an additional 5,000 tickets per game for a total of 50,000 tickets for the year. That's going to be hard for Suggs to do in one game.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by Lex
Suggs is 240? Come on Krang, who are you trying to kid?

Look, even if Suggs only gets 10 sacks a year, we blew it by passing on him.

You and I will get a first hand look at T-Sizzle, at Sun Devil on Oct. 12. I'll bet Suggs sells more tickets for that game, than Emmitt sells for the entire year.

I will buy a ticket to see Big and Clement drive Suggs into the turf like a tack!

(T-Sizzle?)

 

[Alan]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
[B I think Emmitt will sell an additional 5,000 tickets per game for a total of 50,000 tickets for the year. [/B]

There's no way that 5,000 extra peoplewill buy tickets just to see Emmitt each game.

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by Alan
There's no way that 5,000 extra peoplewill buy tickets just to see Emmitt each game.

Alan - I think you underestimate the Cowgirl effect in Phx.....

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Lex
Suggs is 240? Come on Krang, who are you trying to kid?

Look, even if Suggs only gets 10 sacks a year, we blew it by passing on him.

You and I will get a first hand look at T-Sizzle, at Sun Devil on Oct. 12. I'll bet Suggs sells more tickets for that game, than Emmitt sells for the entire year.

Lex, when you want to be right, you really are blind to the facts. Suggs had to "bulk" up to get to 250 in the offseason, but he lost speed doing so. Every single fricking report, had him weighing 250 after the season, after weighing around 240 during the season.

Dirk Koetter said in a radio interview that Suggs runs a 4.75 in the 40, but that's at 240, not 250. He ran a 4.8-4.9 (or about as fast as Leonard Davis did) at 250.

Pace is a legit 270, and runs a 4.6, or at least he did at his workout in Winston-Salem. He weighed 270 during the season, so he didn't have to "bulk" up.

So lets recap.....Suggs at 250 runs a 4.8-4.9. Pace at 270 runs a 4.6-4.7. Twenty pounds difference, not to mention the fact that Pace was measured 1 inch taller, and benched quite a bit more.