Can D'Antoni Make the Knicks a Running Team?

[cly2tw]

I liked Marbury when he was with the Suns because I genuinely think he tried hard to make work. It's just that Marbury was not a pure pass first PG. Also the Suns wanted a PG to push the ball which simply was not his game. However, after Marbury left Phoenix things really went downhill. Looking back, Marbury was in his best situation in Minnesota and he didn't realize it.

Agree. His failure was mostly his own doing. But he gave all he had for the Suns. As I said, I don't blame Suns trading him away. But seeing the team going nowhere with Kidd, it was a gamble worth taking to trade for Marbury.

 

[cly2tw]

Damn, I didnt see this post. On planet earth, Marbury was/is a middling shoot first PG who hogged the ball and has/had one of the worst contracts in suns history. So, he abused a young 20? year old tony parker in the playoffs once, while hogging the ball down the stretch and taking almost all the shots. Marburys defense stinks and his propensity to hog the ball in the stretch meant that if he was on, he had to win the game by himself, and if he was off, you lose to even bad teams.

If you believe that Marbury was a bad fit for Suns, it was the management's responsibility. Do you hate Marbury for his effort level with the Suns? Abusing a young 20? Tony whom not many other PGs could beat, that's quite some feat.
Hindsight being 20/20, you never know whether the max contract for Marbury weren't exactly the season we got the deal with NY to dump Penny and Googs contracts that paved way for Nash signing.
Anyway, I'm quite happy that more fellow board members share my appreciation for Marbury for his Suns time then your hatred.

 

[mojorizen7]

So this thread began by the OP asking for it not to turn into a beat up on D'Antoni thing , so instead it becomes a Marbury thrashing.

Hilarious.

Looking forward to the day when D'Antoni isn't treated like Elvis around here.....guess i'm gonna have to wait until the fat,overrated and washed up version shows up though.

 

[Griffin]

I recall that we led that series 2:1 with that Amare banking 3pt.

The bank shot was to force overtime in game 1, then Marbury won it with a near half-court prayer at the buzzer in OT. Still one of the greatest Suns shots ever. Then we lost the next two games but won game 4 at home to tie the series. The Spurs ended up winning the last two to win in 6.

With regards to D'Antoni and Marbury, D'Antoni took over as head coach with the 22nd game of the season. Marbury was traded after the 34th. So in all, D'Antoni was Marbury's head coach for a total of 13 games, but of course he was an assistant the prior season too.

I do think that the Knicks are going to need a good point guard to be able to run and right now Marbury is all they have. But with the way that team is put together now, even making the playoffs should be considered a success.

 

[nowagimp]

So this thread began by the OP asking for it not to turn into a beat up on D'Antoni thing , so instead it becomes a Marbury thrashing.

Hilarious.

HAHA! feeling sorry for poor starbury? Well he made alot more/year than marion as a sun, and produced waaaay less. Its a shame, as he was a very talented player who just hogged the ball -and the shots- at the end of close games, 'cause he had to be "the man". Is that where JJ got that mindset?. Certainly if JJ wanted to know how to get a contract for the big bucks, stephon WA$ "the man". Stephon even had to make sure he had a higher scoring average than amare in his last year with the suns, even though amare shot 4% better from the field, stephon shot the ball more. I remember seeing amare open and stephon waiting until 2-3 defenders came over before giving amare the ball. Amares development was surely ******** that year, as his PG didnt get him the ball when and where he needed it, hence shooting only 47%. The following year with nash amare shot 56%, getting the ball when and where he needed it.

Yeah, he would throw some dimes out there early on to generate some asst stats. But when the game was close in the 4th, he just didnt trust his teammates enough to give it up. This is a fatal flaw for a PG, or any player who handles the ball alot. He just killed ball movement in critical junctures, late in games. Marbury has practically tortured every coach he ever played for with his antics of doing what he wants out on the floor. If shawn Marion gets a public beating for being overpaid and lower of production in the playoffs, starbury can take the heat for being even more overpaid and damaging team chemistry more than marion ever could.

But go on have your fond memories how a few shots won a couple playoff games against the dreaded spurs when tony parker was a 15/5 player shooting 45% on mostly layups, and manu Ginobilli(7.6ppg in 02-03) played behind the likes of malik rose and stephen jackson was the starting SF.

Remember JJ, marion and amare shooting 43-47% FG's in 03-04 as stephon gave them the ball with the clock winding down and the defense all over them. Remember stephon taking more 3pters than marion ever did and being less accurate(31% as a sun) than marion AND grant hill. I guess its true that absence makes the heart grow fonder.

I saw marions warts, and marbury had alot more warts .... but gets a pass from posters who fondly remember the losing years, when one win made a season, LOL. I suppose it all about expectations, not objectivity.

 

[Irish]

IMHO, a great point guard is first off a great decision maker. He has to see floor, know the game situation, and decide what to do instantly. When Marbury was here, I kept pushing for the Suns to use Penny at PG and put Stephon at SG because it would have been a better fit for his talent. But Frank Johnson was not the kind of coach to deal with Marbury.

My biggest complaint about Marbury was that he was not a good outside shooter who kept shooting anyway. It was pretty frustrating watching teams fall back into a tight zone, daring Marbury to shoot which he;d then brick. If not, he'd dribble around for 15 seconds and then try to ge to the basket. All his passes were kick outs and very few entry passes to Amare.

 

[Bufalay]

gallinari is also looking like a real bust.

Based on what? You say a lot of dumb stuff.

 

[arwillan]

Based on what? You say a lot of dumb stuff.

first off, he knicks fans booed him when he got drafted. that should tell you something. Secondly, he's already riddled with a few injuries. He complains of soreness in his back and shooting pain in his legs. Are those really injuries most 20 year-old's should be having before the start of their careers? He hasn't played in a single live drill since July. Not 1.

"Danilo Gallinari revealed his summer-long back discomfort includes pain shooting down his leg, a strong indication of sciatica, which is potentially more serious than the Knicks have let on."

does that sound like a guy with a real solid nba future? no. At this point, Gallinari is just like the other Knicks. He has no toughness, no defensive abilities, and a strong need to have the ball in his hands to be at his best. With that pick the Knicks could have gotten a better player, and a player who better suits their needs. Bayless looked flawless in summer league (named MVP). They need toughness and reliability, not a soft project. If you feel that what i say is dumb, please take the libery of ignoring me. nobody makes you read or respond to anything i say.

Maybe bust isn't the word i'm looking for....he's certainly off to a shaky start. But i guess the knicks rolled the dice when they picked him over a guy who'd contribute immediately, so what do you expect? only time will tell.

 

[mojorizen7]

HAHA! feeling sorry for poor starbury?

Absolutely not.

 

[dodie53]

isn't randolph with the grizzlies now?

 

[nowagimp]

Absolutely not.

Well its kinda warped to defend starbury and rip marion. Extreme bias

 

[nowagimp]

first off, he knicks fans booed him when he got drafted. that should tell you something. Secondly, he's already riddled with a few injuries. He complains of soreness in his back and shooting pain in his legs. Are those really injuries most 20 year-old's should be having before the start of their careers? He hasn't played in a single live drill since July. Not 1.

"Danilo Gallinari revealed his summer-long back discomfort includes pain shooting down his leg, a strong indication of sciatica, which is potentially more serious than the Knicks have let on."

does that sound like a guy with a real solid nba future? no. At this point, Gallinari is just like the other Knicks. He has no toughness, no defensive abilities, and a strong need to have the ball in his hands to be at his best. With that pick the Knicks could have gotten a better player, and a player who better suits their needs. Bayless looked flawless in summer league (named MVP). They need toughness and reliability, not a soft project. If you feel that what i say is dumb, please take the libery of ignoring me. nobody makes you read or respond to anything i say.

Maybe bust isn't the word i'm looking for....he's certainly off to a shaky start. But i guess the knicks rolled the dice when they picked him over a guy who'd contribute immediately, so what do you expect? only time will tell.

Knicks fans are entitled to boo their management at every opportunity. But you know knicks fans like the eddie curry acquisition. As far as need, the knicks have jamal crawford at the '2' and duhon is a pass first PG. they need shooters, thats why allen houston is trying a comeback, not for his defense. Bayless is a scoring '2', and a bit undersized defensively at that position. The knicks were looking for a PF/SF who can run the floor and shoot. Lets face it, injuries in basketball happen, and they are easy to hide in a short workout. No offense, but I think Donnie Walsh and DA can figure out what the knicks need better than fans 2500 miles away who dont even watch knick games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

first off, he knicks fans booed him when he got drafted. that should tell you something.

Knicks fans in general are morons. The above shouldn't tell you anything or be used as criteria as to why the guy's gonna be a bust.

Secondly, he's already riddled with a few injuries. He complains of soreness in his back and shooting pain in his legs.

now THAT should tell you something. Speaking from on an ongoing recovery from multiple back surgeries, the soreness in your back, shooting pain in the legs ain't a good thing. However, if the problem is taken care of early enough, he still pretty young and his 20 year old body with the best training staffs in the world is gonna recover a hell of a lot better than my 32 year old body.

But, yeah, that ain't good news.

 

[Mainstreet]

now THAT should tell you something. Speaking from on an ongoing recovery from multiple back surgeries, the soreness in your back, shooting pain in the legs ain't a good thing. However, if the problem is taken care of early enough, he still pretty young and his 20 year old body with the best training staffs in the world is gonna recover a hell of a lot better than my 32 year old body.

But, yeah, that ain't good news.

This is definitely bad news concerning the back. I've had my share of back problems as well but one does not want to start out with back problems at the age of 20. I think the key is what is causing the soreness in the back and shooting pain in the leg. Automatically I think disc when I hear these symptoms. Unless caused by something minor, these things tend to not go away but perhaps can be controlled. If I recall correctly Dan Marjerle had a cyst or something removed from his back quite successfully years ago while he was still playing. Hopefully this is something that can be successfully treated.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is definitely bad news concerning the back. I've had my share of back problems as well but one does not want to start out with back problems at the age of 20. I think the key is what is causing the soreness in the back and shooting pain in the leg. Automatically I think disc when I hear these symptoms. Unless caused by something minor, these things tend to not go away but perhaps can be controlled. If I recall correctly Dan Marjerle had a cyst or something removed from his back quite successfully years ago while he was still playing. Hopefully this is something that can be successfully treated.

yeah, disc is the first thing I think of also. I've had three surgeries (one micro-discectomy 6 years ago and 2 lamenectomies earlier this summer) and both started with persistent soreness in the back that worked it's way down to my hips and eventually gave way to shooting pain in my legs. Each time I had major disc problems. Now, that's not to say all back problems with leg shooters leads to surgeries. A lot of people can get away with rehab and epideral blocks to get over it, but at age 20, that bites... actually, it's the same age that I initially starting having my first sympotms, which then worsened over time and not taking care of it. Luckily for this kid, he's got people on it. But yeah, in a nutshell, back problems... they suck ass.

speaking wayyyyyyy off basketball topic, but keeping with back talk, it amazes me that J.D Drew, who has a herniated disk and needed two epiderals can come back and crush the ball like he has for the Sox. I know that professional athletes are the greatest conditioned people in the country and they have all the best rehab and medicine at their feet, but it doesn't change the fact that a herniated disc is a herniated disc and anyone that needs two epiderals is in some serious pain and the fact that he's even out there is impressive. the fact that he's killing the ball is just insane.

 

[nowagimp]

This is definitely bad news concerning the back. I've had my share of back problems as well but one does not want to start out with back problems at the age of 20. I think the key is what is causing the soreness in the back and shooting pain in the leg. Automatically I think disc when I hear these symptoms. Unless caused by something minor, these things tend to not go away but perhaps can be controlled. If I recall correctly Dan Marjerle had a cyst or something removed from his back quite successfully years ago while he was still playing. Hopefully this is something that can be successfully treated.

Im not sure about those symptoms. Sounds like possible pinched nerve to me. I injured my back early on in my martial arts training by kicking too hard in air, earned a pinched nerve in the lower back. It manifested itself in shooting pains down the leg and some numbness. It took 6 months to heal, and I became inactive as it hurt to walk at first. But after it healed I went back and trained hard(25+ hrs/week) for 4+ more years. I learned not to kick air with energy, only hard targets. Its hard to say, but it could just be recoverable nerve damage. Gallinari missed eurobasket due to a right knee sprain. It almost sounds like he may have hurt his back compensating for a weak knee. That would be a common thing to happen when coming back from an injury. Gallinari apparently has no history of back injury.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gallinari missed eurobasket due to a right knee sprain. It almost sounds like he may have hurt his back compensating for a weak knee. That would be a common thing to happen when coming back from an injury. Gallinari apparently has no history of back injury.

These type injuries can be related. In compensating for another injury, e.g., having a sprained knee can cause a person to stress his back or vice versa. The body tends to compensate for an injury by exerting force on other parts of the body. I'm just hoping for the best and it is not a chronic problem.

 

[arwillan]

Knicks fans are entitled to boo their management at every opportunity. But you know knicks fans like the eddie curry acquisition. As far as need, the knicks have jamal crawford at the '2' and duhon is a pass first PG. they need shooters, thats why allen houston is trying a comeback, not for his defense. Bayless is a scoring '2', and a bit undersized defensively at that position. The knicks were looking for a PF/SF who can run the floor and shoot. Lets face it, injuries in basketball happen, and they are easy to hide in a short workout. No offense, but I think Donnie Walsh and DA can figure out what the knicks need better than fans 2500 miles away who dont even watch knick games.

Bayless is looking more like a combo guard, and his defense is one of the reasons he was drafted. draftexpress has him as a monta ellis with better pg skills. a solid point guard prospect would do the knicks worlds of good. he certainly can't do any more damage than marbury already has internally, and he is probably already better than nate robinson. Bayless and crawford isn't a terrible backcourt to have, especially on a running team. Sure you could do better, but still... I understand the need for a SG to go in the lineup. Personally i think the knicks should have tried to make a little more noise on draft night and move some pieces around if possible. unfortunately they didn't, and will probably be a mediocre or below team for a while to come.

 

[mojorizen7]

Well its kinda warped to defend starbury and rip marion. Extreme bias

How did I get dragged into this?
Marion?
Whah?

 

[nowagimp]

Bayless is looking more like a combo guard, and his defense is one of the reasons he was drafted. draftexpress has him as a monta ellis with better pg skills. a solid point guard prospect would do the knicks worlds of good. he certainly can't do any more damage than marbury already has internally, and he is probably already better than nate robinson. Bayless and crawford isn't a terrible backcourt to have, especially on a running team. Sure you could do better, but still... I understand the need for a SG to go in the lineup. Personally i think the knicks should have tried to make a little more noise on draft night and move some pieces around if possible. unfortunately they didn't, and will probably be a mediocre or below team for a while to come.

Bayless has short arms, his standing reach(8'1") is quite subnormal for 6'3". Add to that that 6'3" is short for a '2' and there are questions whether he can defend the '2' in the NBA. He is fast and very capable offensively as a penetrator, but the summer league showed he's and shoot 1st AND 2nd PG, not a PG capable of spreading the ball around alot. Perhaps he will do well with 6'7" PG roy playing along side him, but even the blazers dont see him as a PG. For this reason he looks like a young marbury, not suitable as a pass first PG, and likely cant defend the '2'. I suspect you will see that duhon will play the PG in NY anyway, stephon is already shooting his mouth off and takling himself out of playing time.

 

[nowagimp]

How did I get dragged into this?
Marion?
Whah?

Because you are/were a marion basher, but a defender of starbury, a strange sense of objectivity. If youre gonna bash marion, then marbury must also be bashed much more. After all he made more $, hogged the ball more and produced much less. I agree that marion was overpaid, by 5 mil per maybe. But marbury, OMG, it'd take eyepatches( 2 of them), not rose colored glasses not to see that.

 

[mojorizen7]

Because you are/were a marion basher, but a defender of starbury, a strange sense of objectivity. If youre gonna bash marion, then marbury must also be bashed much more. After all he made more $, hogged the ball more and produced much less. I agree that marion was overpaid, by 5 mil per maybe. But marbury, OMG, it'd take eyepatches( 2 of them), not rose colored glasses not to see that.

I think you've got me mixed up with someone else Gimp cuz i was most definately not a Marion basher. Meaning that i was a Marion fan actually. His weakness was that his talents here were exposed somewhat in the post-season because he can't creat any offense off the dribble from the 3 & 4 spot....he's a good player.
There isn't one SUNS player i haven't criticized at some point(prob during a gamethread) but i save all my bashing for D'Antoni. Also, i never defended Marbury, IIRC i simply pointed out that this thread was about DA and it's funny how it metamorphisized(spelling?) into a bash Starbury thread.