Can Kolb Now take the Reins?

SissyBoyFloyd

Pawnee, Skidi Clan
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Posts
5,077
Reaction score
2,384
Location
Mesa, AZ
Not to worry. If Kolb isn't on the team next year for whatever reason, we will just have to pick a good QB in the draft next year. If we start out like we did last year with Kolb, and don't win a few of those meaningless games in the 2nd half of the season. If we are in the top 5 or 10 of the draft next year we will have our pick of some of these QBs:


Matt Barkley QB 1 So Cal Sr 6-2 220
Landry Jones QB 2 Oklahoma Sr 6-4 230
Tyler Wilson QB 3 Arkansas Sr 6-3 220
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,394
Reaction score
4,085
Evidently, Whiz believes that Kolb has the physical skills to run his offence or he wouldn't be here. Though counter intuiitive, I read recently that there is no statistical correlation between a concussion and repeat concussions. We can simply hope for the best.

Statistical correlation is junk. It's the psuedo science version of rolling the dice. There's nothing scientific about it, and it leads people to bad decisions. It's sad snake oil like this is used so often in today's failing world, and it is one of the reasons why.

In reality it's 0 or 1. For concussions each person is different. Those that get them, tend to get them more often.

Kolb gets them, and he gets them often. The last one was a bad one. The next one? Probably in the range of, not quite as bad to worse than the last one.

Since the metric can sometimes reach the correct conclusion, it's not 100 percent useless, just mostly, but even monkeys and a dart board can sometimes do the same. It really should be the lowest metric used to judge something. Because it never tells you anything real. Just an amalgamation of limited factors that produces a number that is supposed to give someone a basis to judge something and then make a decision on, supposedly with meaning behind it. It's really just a meaningless number. Misused worse than prescription drugs.

Just saying. Not putting this on you, it's a worldwide problem, and the great journalists that put out that piece obviously didn't understand this, probably because it's been so widely wrongly legitimized as a valid process with valid results.
 

Crazy Canuck

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
10,077
Reaction score
0
Statistical correlation is junk. It's the psuedo science version of rolling the dice. There's nothing scientific about it, and it leads people to bad decisions. It's sad snake oil like this is used so often in today's failing world, and it is one of the reasons why.

In reality it's 0 or 1. For concussions each person is different. Those that get them, tend to get them more often.

Kolb gets them, and he gets them often. The last one was a bad one. The next one? Probably in the range of, not quite as bad to worse than the last one.

Since the metric can sometimes reach the correct conclusion, it's not 100 percent useless, just mostly, but even monkeys and a dart board can sometimes do the same. It really should be the lowest metric used to judge something. Because it never tells you anything real. Just an amalgamation of limited factors that produces a number that is supposed to give someone a basis to judge something and then make a decision on, supposedly with meaning behind it. It's really just a meaningless number. Misused worse than prescription drugs.

Just saying. Not putting this on you, it's a worldwide problem, and the great journalists that put out that piece obviously didn't understand this, probably because it's been so widely wrongly legitimized as a valid process with valid results.

The studies simply say that there is no statistical support for your "tendency" argument. If you can offer something beyond the anecdotal that because I had a concussion, I'm more likely to get a second... please do.
 
Last edited:

Bodha

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Posts
5,710
Reaction score
754
Im excited for what Skelton can do with this offense now.

Improved Oline. Legit #2 in Floyd. I really think we have a good team put together.

Not even worried about Kolb. The second he goes 4ints to 1 TD he will sit and never see the field again.
 

InfiniteRed

Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Posts
325
Reaction score
0
I give him this year to prove himself. In fact, he probably only has the 1st half of the season to prove himself.
I believe he deserves a chance to prove himself, he has been very unlucky. But I'd only give him the pre season and maybe 4 games for him do it. Half a season is too much.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

Pawnee, Skidi Clan
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Posts
5,077
Reaction score
2,384
Location
Mesa, AZ
I don't want a QB controversy as we go into the season. I hope one of these guys wins the starting job fully and without doubt. And we stick with him throughout he year unless of course he gets injured, which in itself is probably a 50/50 chance.

I will be excited for either QB that wins the job outright. What I don't want is it being up in the air and our starter always having to look over his shoulder worrying that he will get pulled if he has a bad game. That is the worst to me. Pick one and live with the results for the year. If he can't cut it, then cut him and draft a better one.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Posts
53,873
Reaction score
19,668
Location
CA
Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck
Evidently, Whiz believes that Kolb has the physical skills to run his offence or he wouldn't be here. Though counter intuiitive, I read recently that there is no statistical correlation between a concussion and repeat concussions. We can simply hope for the best.

Whiz also thought DA could run this offense...
 

az1965

Love Games!
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Posts
14,760
Reaction score
0
Location
Austin, TX
I give him this year to prove himself. In fact, he probably only has the 1st half of the season to prove himself.
and if we go 1-7 or 2-6, our season will be done... no thanks.

I'm willing to give him first two pre-season games.
 

az1965

Love Games!
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Posts
14,760
Reaction score
0
Location
Austin, TX
Skelton IMO will have a real chance to win the job this year though. Certainly Whisenhunt and Co. haven't seemed like they have too much confidence in Kolb. But I think that Skelton has to show some real growth this year; he left A LOT of plays on the field last year, missed a lot of open receivers.
Yes, he did leave a lot of plays on the field...

But, consider a 5th round pick from Fordhem with no off season going 8-4 where he started or played majority of the snaps. His first season, he was #4 on the depth chart behind Leinart, Anderson, and Hall but went 2-2 when given the opportunity. His second season, there was no off season and he was #2 on the depth chart during training camp but got injured most of the training camp. However, he went 6-2.

I see a lot of upside with Skelton with a full offseason and equal opportunity to be a starter during training camp that is getting reps with the first team.
 

THESMEL

Smushdown! Take it like a fan!
Joined
May 21, 2010
Posts
5,945
Reaction score
1,121
Location
Vernon
Broken record

I know i'm a broken record about the broken record

But i can't think of a single QB made for Whiz's system, they (Saints) darn near took Kurts head off! last in rush attempts and yardage? Kurt running in mud at the end of his career.

I mean we were beteer with the 245 Beanie carries this year, but if you want to apply pressure to an opposinsin defense every single down - and take a high risk high reward devil may care attitude to the Oline, RB and QB! you dare them to blitz and go 3 and out half the time ----

you might want to have a defense that does not have the same high risk mentallity. Whiz wants chunks o yardage - does not want to grind - but our defense wants to play high pressure-high risk - high reward too. They don't want to grind either!

Some body has to want to play the chess match, somebody has to want to grind it out when weather or situation calls for it. sad but it is usually the opposing winning team that has the patients to beat us and our big play or bust offense.


I don't think our offense is suited for him he is a west coast quarterback but more importantly unfortunately I don't believe he will last considering his concussion problems. The length of time it took to recover from his last one is definitely alarming. I hope he can and I will root for him to succeed but I don't see him as a fit talent wise and I definitely don't see him making it through a season.
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
7,861
Reaction score
8,259
Location
Home of the Thunder
Based on what?

Based on my uninformed observations of their play.

However, as a life long fan of the NFL, at 43, I've watched a lot of QB play. A lot.

I'd like to think that I'm able to tell when a professional QB has the ability to perform at a level that will substantially contribute to a winning effort for his team.

There are a lot of great things about John Skelton, and I appreciate everything he's done for our team. However, after watching him closely over the past two years, I do not believe he can consistently perform at level that will substantially contribute to our team's winning effort.

On the other hand, I've seen Kolb play at a high enough level (for an entire game) to make me believe that he might be the answer. I'm definitely not sold on him though. If he doesn't perform well (QB rating for the season of at least 88) this year, I think the team needs to make QB a top priority for 2013.
 

JAB

Veteran
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Posts
379
Reaction score
0
Location
San Antonio Texas
I read recently that there is no statistical correlation between a concussion and repeat concussions. We can simply hope for the best.

I don't think people in the medical field are up to date on concussions. I've read both conflict reports. One that says a person is twice as likely to receive a second concussion after receiving the first and reports that say a person isn't more likely to receive a concussion because they already had one.

What I have found that is a consistent is that some people are just more prone to having them. I am afraid since he has had multiple concussions he probably falls under that category. The other thing they agree on is if they fall in a concussion prone category having another concussion is more likely after each concussion.
 

jw7

Woof!
LEGACY MEMBER
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Posts
8,194
Reaction score
7
Location
Ahwatukee
I don't think people in the medical field are up to date on concussions. I've read both conflict reports. One that says a person is twice as likely to receive a second concussion after receiving the first and reports that say a person isn't more likely to receive a concussion because they already had one.

What I have found that is a consistent is that some people are just more prone to having them. I am afraid since he has had multiple concussions he probably falls under that category. The other thing they agree on is if they fall in a concussion prone category having another concussion is more likely after each concussion.

I haven't thought enuf about your post content to post a thought-out response.

Just want to say that is the best sig I have seen on ASFN for awhile. :thumbup:
 

52brandon

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Posts
3,407
Reaction score
0
I don't think people in the medical field are up to date on concussions. I've read both conflict reports. One that says a person is twice as likely to receive a second concussion after receiving the first and reports that say a person isn't more likely to receive a concussion because they already had one.

What I have found that is a consistent is that some people are just more prone to having them. I am afraid since he has had multiple concussions he probably falls under that category. The other thing they agree on is if they fall in a concussion prone category having another concussion is more likely after each concussion.
lol, the medical field is more up to date than anybody else though. It's just how hard it is to figure out the brain
 

JAB

Veteran
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Posts
379
Reaction score
0
Location
San Antonio Texas
I haven't thought enuf about your post content to post a thought-out response.

Just want to say that is the best sig I have seen on ASFN for awhile. :thumbup:

Well, thank you very much. I had a much longer version but what you see is all I could put up under the guidelines for data usage.

lol, the medical field is more up to date than anybody else though. It's just how hard it is to figure out the brain

My point being, the medical community is just now doing major studies on concussions. There is a reason this is a big topic and concern in today's sports and medical communities alike. Our doctors used to think draining a person of their blood was a way of healing them.

They are just now in the last few years using modern technology to do a lot deeper research into concussions. Frankly if it wasn't for the multimillion dollar athletes I still think they wouldn't be doing the research they're doing now.

Today's great discovery is tomorrow's basic knowledge and IMO they are just beginning to have an understanding on how serious concussions can be and have a ways to go to have the information they need.
 
Last edited:

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
he also thought Kurt Warner could...

That's debatable. If Leinart hadn't broken his collarbone in 2007 Warner may never have seen the field again except for some no huddle and might have been released after the 2007 season because of his age. Now I don't agree but many people think that even after Warner's amazing performance the last half of that season CKW was still going with Leinart as the starter in 2008.

With the guys CKW has brought in to play QB you really have to question he and his assistants ability to judge a QBs ability to run his offense. Brian St.Pierre,Dereck Anderson,Max Hall, John Skelton,Kevin Kolb and now Lindley.
That's not a pretty list.

Fortunately we have one guy who appears to really know what he's doing in Horton. He loses his #1 CB in a trade then loses his #2 CB to injury and has to start a rookie as his #1 and loses his starting NT and starting FS and the Defense still performs at a high level. Heck even Vonnie Holliday was playing like a guy 10 years younger. Now there's a coach. And I admit I was wrong in thinking he was just another Steeler crony. :koolaid:
 

artp

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
1,085
Reaction score
7
Location
Little Rock
The good thing is that if they falter, I think the Cards make wholesale changes next year to the QB position and we'll look to the draft for a long term answer.

Why is that a good thing today?
 

az1965

Love Games!
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Posts
14,760
Reaction score
0
Location
Austin, TX
Based on my uninformed observations of their play.

However, as a life long fan of the NFL, at 43, I've watched a lot of QB play. A lot.

I'd like to think that I'm able to tell when a professional QB has the ability to perform at a level that will substantially contribute to a winning effort for his team.

There are a lot of great things about John Skelton, and I appreciate everything he's done for our team. However, after watching him closely over the past two years, I do not believe he can consistently perform at level that will substantially contribute to our team's winning effort.

On the other hand, I've seen Kolb play at a high enough level (for an entire game) to make me believe that he might be the answer. I'm definitely not sold on him though. If he doesn't perform well (QB rating for the season of at least 88) this year, I think the team needs to make QB a top priority for 2013.
You realize John Skelton has had not an offseason? See my other post in the same thread. That is pretty darn good performance considering he is also from a small school. The ceiling for him is high IMO especially now that McNulty is the QB coach.

I have not any recollection of a "high enough level performance for an entire game" from Kolb last season. Care to point out which one?
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
20,081
Reaction score
11,086
Even if Kolb plays well enough to keep the job (doubtful), I have every expectation that he will get injured. The guys career injuries to wins is basically a 1:1 ratio.

And as for the medical opinion that one concussion does not make you more likely to get another, I am pretty sure those docs also concede that some people are more prone to concussions than others. Either way, Kolb has proven to be frequently concussed and very slow to recover from them.

Below average arm strength, average accuracy, horrible awareness, awful in the clutch. Still see nothing at all to like with him.

He will be the starter though (unless he gets hurt in preseason). They've got 16 million still left to pay him no matter what happens so they might claim there is a QB competition but its just lip service. Kolb will be the starter until he gets hurt or until week 6 when the crowd mercilessly boos him off the field.
 
Last edited:

az1965

Love Games!
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Posts
14,760
Reaction score
0
Location
Austin, TX
That was the only "decent" game he had, nothing close to "high level" performance.

18/27 (66.7%), 309 yds, 2 TD, 0 ints, 2 fumbles (lost 1)

We had total of 10 passing first downs vs. 17 for Panthers.
Yards/pass 10.9.
Red zone 1/3
Possession 27:13 vs. 32:47

Again, not bad but nothing to rave about either.
 
Top