Can't the FO Ever Finish The Job?

[kerouac9]

I think people need to relax about the backup NT. Look around the NFL and you don't see a lot of name players backing up the best NTs in the league like Casey Hampton. Generally, good NTs don't have to play more than 55% of the team's downs because opposing offenses have to go to passing formations and the defense puts in rush tackles.

It's a risk depending on Dan Williams to stay healthy for 16 games, but it's not a genuine necessity. When Mitch has a freak-out, he really should list the alternatives out there that he'd like to bring in.

Yes, I'd love to see the Cards make a run at Jared Gaither, but they passed on him in the supplemental draft and apparently have no interest in him now. They must not like him as much as may of us do. Is Adam Goldberg going to beat out Jeremy Bridges for the job? Is Langston Walker? C'mon.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Very true, but dont you think there would have been a better offer from a better team, a team that would showcase his skills more for the 2012 free agency period. A team better then the horrid Bengals? Either there was not better offers or he made a really bad decision.

I didnt say he was a world-beater. He is a solid "B" linebacker. Still would be an upgrade over what the Cards have.

I cant imagine why anyone would go to the Bengals except maybe it gets him closer to his NC home? (but not that close) I cant speak for why he chose the Bengals but I would have liked him in AZ.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Because it is a shortened offseason, and camp has started?

Because they are turning all focus of Fitz contract?

I think that this offseason has demonstrated that Graves and team can focus on more than one thing. With hundreds of players still looking for work, you can bet the phones haven't stopped ringing.

 

[kerouac9]

14 sacks in 56 career stats.

I know people know his name and all, but name regognition does not equal production and this guy has little to no production as a pass rusher. Schofield in maybe 20% of the amount of snaps coming off of knee injury was just as productive as Lawson as a pass rusher last year.

In a league frothing at the mouth for pass rushers in a passing league, all this guy could find was 1 year deal with the Bengals?

Roth continues to be and was the only legit OLB on the market this offseason. And not becuase he is a dominate pass rusher but because he is a jack of all trades OLB who is a decent pass rusher and a decent run stuffer. But why cant he find a job either?

Maybe we could have gone after Derrick Harvey who has proven just as much as Schofield in this league.

I udnerstand wanting to fix the position but at least have some legit options to fix it with.

C'mon, Joe. You can't rely on PFF's analysis when you agree with it and then dismiss it when you don't:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/17/breaking-out-10-pass-rushers-to-watch/

Manny Lawson, San Francisco 49ers, PRP Rating – 12.04
You almost feel like 49er fans have given up on Lawson. The coaches certainly seemed to last year as they let him rush the passer just 218 times. Ouch. You take out a guy who got a QB disruption on 15.6% of plays in sub package defenses? That’s not smart. Lawson is better than people will give him credit for, and it may just take a new environment to get the best out of him.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ts-4-3-defensive-ends3-4-outside-linebackers/

5. Manny Lawson, San Francisco 49ers

Age as of September 1st 2011: 27

2010 Grade: +12.9

Key Stat: Broke up more passes than any other 3-4 OLB.

Behind The Numbers: If you’re looking for a guy with upside, and who won’t break the bank, then why look further than Lawson? His rather pedestrian sack numbers don’t do him justice, considering he gets more pressure on a per-play basis than guys like Clay Matthews, James Harrison and Cameron Wake. It’s just that the 49ers opted to have him in a rotation which meant he only rushed the passer 218 times. Perhaps the 49ers were disappointed in him following his 2008 and 2009 season where he struggled to consistently get pressure on the QB. But in Year 5 he finally seemed to get it, and with an overload of teams running the 3-4 a number of them would do well to find a solid starter like Lawson.

I don't like PFF's analysis, but for those of you who use it as a bible (how's that Cincy OG lookin' right now?), then you can't just toss their analysis when the conclusions don't suit you.

PFF has Lawson ranked above Matt Roth (who has a nice 0 year deal on the free agent market--what does that say about him?) in its analysis.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Come on Joe, really?

Hes great in pass coverage

He makes plenty of tackles and defends passes. They didnt ask him to be a rush backer, they liked his skill defending TE's and passes. He is also very good at setting the edge and forcing plays back up inside for PW.

He is a good player and would have been an upgrade in AZ.

???

They got rid of him in SF because of his lack of pass rush production. And if we want pass defending outside linebacker there are better one's around: Ben Leber

PS: I wouldn't have minded having him back up Scofield, but, he's not a first tier OLB.

 

[Early]

Yeah... Let's move Levi to a position he's never played...

The team has attempted to address the interior by signing Colledge, re-signing Sendlein and Lutui, and adding veteran depth. May not be to your satisfaction, but it is what it is.

From all the reports i have been reading, Colledge is not a good player. That's what i don't like and if they have brought in a good player, i might not have looked at it that way.

Yeah, sometimes some players just need to change positions to be even better. It's not a huge change going from OT to G. It's not like you go from playing QB to play LB.

It's a change for sure, but all the differences favor very well Levi's skills. Much like it helped Rolle to change to a position he never has played before...........CB to FS is even more of a change IMO.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

C'mon, Joe. You can't rely on PFF's analysis when you agree with it and then dismiss it when you don't:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/03/17/breaking-out-10-pass-rushers-to-watch/



http://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ts-4-3-defensive-ends3-4-outside-linebackers/



I don't like PFF's analysis, but for those of you who use it as a bible (how's that Cincy OG lookin' right now?), then you can't just toss their analysis when the conclusions don't suit you.

PFF has Lawson ranked above Matt Roth (who has a nice 0 year deal on the free agent market--what does that say about him?) in its analysis.

I'd much rather run the corpse of Joey Porter out there. He proved quite effective last year.

 

[joeshmo]

Come on Joe, really?

Hes great in pass coverage

He makes plenty of tackles and defends passes. They didnt ask him to be a rush backer, they liked his skill defending TE's and passes. He is also very good at setting the edge and forcing plays back up inside for PW.

He is a good player and would have been an upgrade in AZ.

99% of the fans would be angry that he only had 3 sacks a season, and you know it.

Lets say he does all those things so well, but what is the one thing the Pitt OLB's do the best and are asked to be the best at?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Well, obviously they prefer what they have at OT to what's available

A scary proposition.

Available now, or available from the beginning of FA?

 

[kerouac9]

I'd much rather run the corpse of Joey Porter out there. He proved quite effective last year.

That's what I don't get. Maybe Manny Lawson isn't a starter, but he's by all accounts a very good (and willing) special teams player and can at least increase competition at the position.

Is that really worse than having to put Joey Porter's body underneath Calais Campbell's arm and run him into the offensive tackle down after down, Weekend at Bernie's-style?

 

[Renz]

Horton obviously didn't want Lawson for what he's trying to do.

 

[Renz]

That's what I don't get. Maybe Manny Lawson isn't a starter, but he's by all accounts a very good (and willing) special teams player and can at least increase competition at the position.

So you're good with the Cards paying their special teams players $3 million-a-year?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

???

They got rid of him in SF because of his lack of pass rush production. And if we want pass defending outside linebacker there are better one's around: Ben Leber

PS: I wouldn't have minded having him back up Scofield, but, he's not a first tier OLB.

See K9's post. They didnt ask him to rush the QB. 218 times all season?? How do you know he cant perform in that role?

You dont think he is an upgrade over Joey Porter? I said he is a solid "B" OLB, no one except you mentioned 'First Tier"

 

[Mitch]

You guys rank on the Bengals but they have a much better pass rush than we do. They even got 9.5 sacks from rookie Carlos Dunlap last year.

They don't need Lawson to be a pass rusher---not in their defense.

At least the Bengals make their pass rush a priority.

We don't.

And sorry, every year some of you chalk it up to few available options.

If that's the case you use a high draft pick---or you make trade---you do something. You even take a chance on a guy like Matt Roth---who brought more pressure from the edge last year than all of our players combined.

Even if we got a guy who can get decent pressure---we have DD and CC there to clean up when the QB has to step into the pocket. A high pressure guy would be huge.

 

[joeshmo]

I don't like PFF's analysis, but for those of you who use it as a bible (how's that Cincy OG lookin' right now?), then you can't just toss their analysis when the conclusions don't suit you.

Becuase I use it as a bible? Dont confuse using something as a tool with using it as a bible. They have a lot of stuff I dont agree with, they are a victim of paraylisis by over analysis many times. I could just as easily say oh you used a 40 time to prove Edwards isnt a deep threat, 40 times must be a bible for you.

As for Mathis he is doing pretty well with a well run organization. Where is Manny Lawson?

 

[joeshmo]

See K9's post. They didnt ask him to rush the QB. 218 times all season?? How do you know he cant perform in that role?

You dont think he is an upgrade over Joey Porter? I said he is a solid "B" OLB, no one except you mentioned 'First Tier"

And the year before that, or the year before that, or the year before that. They have never asked him to be a pass rusher in his 5 year career? Seems a little odd to me that they would never ask a 3/4 OLB to never be a pass rusher?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

See K9's post. They didnt ask him to rush the QB. 218 times all season?? How do you know he cant perform in that role?

You dont think he is an upgrade over Joey Porter? I said he is a solid "B" OLB, no one except you mentioned 'First Tier"

Given that SF had a problem putting pressure on the QB. "Why would they not send him?"

Obviously if SF, who must have had a pretty goof sense of his abilities, didn't believe that he could be an effective rusher. 3-4 linebackers who can rush are not "ten-cents-a-dozen", and if you have one you don't let him leave.

An upgrade over Porter? Probably, but is he worth the $3m he got in Cinci, or a long term deal.... I don't know.

 

[kerouac9]

So you're good with the Cards paying their special teams players $3 million-a-year?

If he can collect 6 sacks as a sub-package player every year? Yes, I am. Heck, the Cards paid more for less in Joey Porter last year.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

And the year before that, or the year before that, or the year before that. They have never asked him to be a pass rusher in his 5 year career? Seems a little odd to me that they would never ask a 3/4 OLB to never be a pass rusher?

Go look up the numbers, for whatever reason they didnt use him that way.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Given that SF had a problem putting pressure on the QB. "Why would they not send him?"

Obviously if SF, who must have had a pretty goof sense of his abilities, didn't believe that he could be an effective rusher. 3-4 linebackers who can rush are not "ten-cents-a-dozen", and if you have one you don't let him leave.

An upgrade over Porter? Probably, but is he worth the $3m he got in Cinci, or a long term deal.... I don't know.

see Coach=Singletary for your answer

 

[Crazy Canuck]

see Coach=Singletary for your answer

Well, Coach "pants on the ground" left town, and they still let Manny go.

 

[WildBB]

Listening to Wiz on the Herd the other day, it seemed like teams after the initial flurry are now looking for FA bargains and to take care (extend) their own.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Well, Coach "pants on the ground" left town, and they still let Manny go.

I dont get this arguement. We can agree to disagree on how Good Lawson is, but just b/c you let someone go does not mean he isnt any good.

Do I really have to name all the FA's that were great, left their teams , and were great still? In essence your saying none of the FA's the Cards picked up could be ay good.

Reality is New coach = his own guys. They didnt just let Lawson go, they let several guys walk from their starting defense last year.

And since when is 3million for 1 year a deal any team would get scared over? Id pay that, let Porter walk, and its more than a wash b/c Lawson is a better OLB at this point in his career.

 

[Mitch]

I dont get this arguement. We can agree to disagree on how Good Lawson is, but just b/c you let someone go does not mean he isnt any good.

Do I really have to name all the FA's that were great, left their teams , and were great still? In essence your saying none of the FA's the Cards picked up could be ay good.

Reality is New coach = his own guys. They didnt just let Lawson go, they let several guys walk from their starting defense last year.

And since when is 3million for 1 year a deal any team would get scared over? Id pay that, let Porter walk, and its more than a wash b/c Lawson is a better OLB at this point in his career.

They also drafted a guy to take his place in the 1st round, who is a potential edge rushing dynamo.

 

[Mulli]

Anywho, they were a couple minutes from winning it all a couple seasons ago. Does that count?