Cardinals at Rams gameday thread 12-28-24

[Russ Smith]

Pretty sure it will be thrown a little later and to the outside. Maybe understanding that the TE has to disengage from the LB before you throw a seed at him. Also probably can get him more than 1 TD in 16 games.

By LB you mean safety Kam Curl? Because that's who was covering him

 

[Russ Smith]

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Can't wait until our QB has a TE who can lift his hands up to catch the ball

Thanks for this I was trying to get a shot like this but I don't have a mouse to freeze it. So both of them are past 5 yards, the ball is in the air, and Curl still had contact.

 

[daves]

@Harry you disagree, but no team a worried about Dortch catching the ball and kicking it away from him. He doesn't scare anyone. DJ Dallas is a better returner.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion.

Dortch has a 9.4 yard per return average this season (9th in the league among qualifiers).

Dallas hasn't returned a punt for the Cardinals, but has a career 9.4 yard per return average.

 

[BritCard]

I agree on opinion items. I tend to view their perspective on specific plays and situations as less biased. When Steve Smith says it was a bad toss…I tend to listen.

We don't need Smith though. No pass on a 5 yard out route should hit the receiver in the helmet. Any ball that does is badly placed. That's just obvious.

If you're running away from the ball the ball should be outside your frame. A ball placed on your head means you have to twist your body past 90 degrees to catch it, making it a very low percentage catch.

 

[Russ Smith]

It’s hard to see from an exact frame like this but it’s clear with Witherspoon having begun turning that this is an extremely tight window and not a finesse pass. Ball just needed to be around 1.5 feet lower to Kyler’s left.

Also with these tight windows on this side of the field, the up and down year Kyler has had, and the time of the game and Rams still having a timeout that the playcall should’ve been different. A run play or shovel pass or something more conservative to force the timeout.

100 percent the latter. I think we ALL agree we should have run the ball there. Even Warner said it the whole playbook is open, you can run it, you can throw a screen, you don't have to throw into the endzone.

 

[Russ Smith]

We don't need Smith though. No pass on a 5 yard out route should hit the receiver in the helmet. Any ball that does is badly placed. That's just obvious.

If you're running away from the ball the ball should be outside your frame. A ball placed on your head means you have to twist your body past 90 degrees to catch it, making it a very low percentage catch.

Or you can look at the picture and see his hands are directly below where the ball is. If the hands were up higher it would have hit his hands not the helmet. Now maybe he's expecting the throw low there, I really don't know, but he absolutely didn't have to twist his body to catch it if his head turns 90 degrees the ball is going to stick in his facemask.

Smith showed his bias on the play by saying you throw the football what 5 yards away. The ball was snapped from 5, it was thrown from the 12, and it was in the air probably 25 yards. Again it's a triangle the shortest side is 12 yards.

 

[ajcardfan]

Not sure how you come to that conclusion.

Dortch has a 9.4 yard per return average this season (9th in the league among qualifiers).

Dallas hasn't returned a punt for the Cardinals, but has a career 9.4 yard per return average.

The problem Dortch has, IMO, is that he lets too many punts hit the ground. That one in OT in Carolina that rolled about 20 yards down to the 10 is just one example.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Are we still talking about the ball that hit Trey's helmet? Because if so part of this that is driving me nuts is why does it matter if it's a bit more outside, Trey did NOT see ball coming because he was being held out of his break. It doesn't matter where the ball was he didn't catch it because he didn't see it. Unless he has spectacular gloves if the ball hit him in the hands he still wasn't catching it because he didn't see it.

I got into the nitty gritty slow down replay off youtube. The rule on illegal contact is 5 yards. LOS is the 5, Trey's left foot was in the endzone right foot was on the line or real close to it, defender had 1 foot in the endzone. So you CAN argue it's close enough to 5 yards that it's not illegal contact. The problem is if you freezeframe it he's still holding Trey after the ball leaves Kylers hand and at that point it goes from illegal contact/holding, to PI.

But it's that contact that prevents Trey from seeing the ball.

To me the only argument here is if Kyler holds the ball a split second longer, Trey might have his head around. But then people have been blasting him for years now for not throwing guys open, that's exactly what he did here he threw the ball before Trey was open, assuming he would be. He was, but because of the contact it's a tick too early

Russ, no offense, but that’s not what “throwing him open” means. It literally means what we are talking about with placement. If he causes trey to reach to the outside it takes trey away from the defender. That’s throwing him open.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, no offense, but that’s not what “throwing him open” means. It literally means what we are talking about with placement. If he causes trey to reach to the outside it takes trey away from the defender. That’s throwing him open.

Throwing him open means throwing to the open area so when the receiver goes there it's a catch. Which is exactly what he did. The DB never touched that throw.

The thing you're talking about, no offense, is PLACEMENT, which as others said is really about making sure if Trey doesn't catch the ball, nobody else does either. Which is normally a tight window situation like the one that Daniels threw to Ertz to win the game between 2 defenders where the only guy who has a chance to make the catch is Ertz and he did. But this wasn't that situation where Kyler put the ball only one guy had a chance to make the catch, but it hit him in the helmet instead

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Throwing him open means throwing to the open area so when the receiver goes there it's a catch. Which is exactly what he did. The DB never touched that throw.

The thing you're talking about, no offense, is PLACEMENT, which as others said is really about making sure if Trey doesn't catch the ball, nobody else does either. Which is normally a tight window situation like the one that Daniels threw to Ertz to win the game between 2 defenders where the only guy who has a chance to make the catch is Ertz and he did. But this wasn't that situation where Kyler put the ball only one guy had a chance to make the catch, but it hit him in the helmet instead

We are now arguing about a phrase and not the okay, but you’re wrong. If you’ve got an iPhone just ask Siri. Even she knows throwing a receiver open is throwing the ball so that the receiver has to go get it. That’s not throwing the ball right at the receiver.

And the ertz pkay is a great example. If Daniels throws that right at ertz instead of to the instead where ertz has to reach for it, it’s a worse throw. Daniels did what kyler did not. And with even less room to squeeze in the throw.

 

[Russ Smith]

We are now arguing about a phrase and not the okay, but you’re wrong. If you’ve got an iPhone just ask Siri. Even she knows throwing a receiver open is throwing the ball so that the receiver has to go get it. That’s not throwing the ball right at the receiver.

And the ertz pkay is a great example. If Daniels throws that right at ertz instead of to the instead where ertz has to reach for it, it’s a worse throw. Daniels did what kyler did not. And with even less room to squeeze in the throw.

Siri is full of it. I don't have an iphone but I did google it. Here's the AI summary of it. Note that's exactly what Kyler did, the defender is on the right of Trey, he threw the ball to the open area.

the Daniels play is NOT an example of throwing someone open it's an example of putting a ball between 2 close defenders in a tight window which was NOT the case on our play. They're completely different, Ertz has just a tiny window between his man and the guy to the right, Daniels made a hell of a throw and Ertz made a great catch. In our play where the ball is thrown the S covering Trey has no play on it and it's far enough away from the CB on the left he has no play on it either. But the timing was messed up by the contact

ew
Learn more

In football, "throwing him open" means to throw the ball away from the defender and into space for the receiver. This is also known as leading the receiver.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Siri is full of it. I don't have an iphone but I did google it. Here's the AI summary of it. Note that's exactly what Kyler did, the defender is on the right of Trey, he threw the ball to the open area.

the Daniels play is NOT an example of throwing someone open it's an example of putting a ball between 2 close defenders in a tight window which was NOT the case on our play. They're completely different, Ertz has just a tiny window between his man and the guy to the right, Daniels made a hell of a throw and Ertz made a great catch. In our play where the ball is thrown the S covering Trey has no play on it and it's far enough away from the CB on the left he has no play on it either. But the timing was messed up by the contact

ew
Learn more

In football, "throwing him open" means to throw the ball away from the defender and into space for the receiver. This is also known as leading the receiver.

I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t understand that “leading the receiver” is not “throw it at the receivers face.”

 

[D-Dogg]

100 percent the latter. I think we ALL agree we should have run the ball there. Even Warner said it the whole playbook is open, you can run it, you can throw a screen, you don't have to throw into the endzone.

And then Uncle Fester dialed up a throw.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t understand that “leading the receiver” is not “throw it at the receivers face.”

He didn't throw it at the receivers face he threw the ball to the open area.

YOu can literally watch the post game interview with Trey. It was my fault, we got the look we wanted, the ball was right there I have to catch it. The ball got on me quick because it took too long for me to get open and get my head around.

he goes on later to talk about thinking he was going to get a flag on it.

Maybe ask Siri to play the video for you

 

[Russ Smith]

And then Uncle Fester dialed up a throw.

In the post game Gannon talked about the defensive front the Rams were in said it was going to make it hard to run the ball especially with Conner out. Said they got the read they wanted just had bad luck.


There's a guy who posts on the Cards site where they release videos. He and another guy were discussing the lack of TD's for Trey, 1 this year 5 in his career. One guy blames Kyler, said Ertz had 8 in 130 catches with the Cards, has 6 this year with Washington alone. The other guy pointed out Trey had 90 catches as a senior in college, 1 TD, had 10 over 4 years.

As I said earlier I tend to think Kyler's size makes it harder for him to throw in the redzone where most TE's get their TDs. And harder for him to throw in the middle, he's better throwing to sidelines and corners where he doesn't have to throw it over the line.

 

[Chopper0080]

In the post game Gannon talked about the defensive front the Rams were in said it was going to make it hard to run the ball especially with Conner out. Said they got the read they wanted just had bad luck.


There's a guy who posts on the Cards site where they release videos. He and another guy were discussing the lack of TD's for Trey, 1 this year 5 in his career. One guy blames Kyler, said Ertz had 8 in 130 catches with the Cards, has 6 this year with Washington alone. The other guy pointed out Trey had 90 catches as a senior in college, 1 TD, had 10 over 4 years.

As I said earlier I tend to think Kyler's size makes it harder for him to throw in the redzone where most TE's get their TDs. And harder for him to throw in the middle, he's better throwing to sidelines and corners where he doesn't have to throw it over the line.

I think Kyler's deficiencies as a passer make it harder for him to throw in the red zone. Everything is sped up and condensed which is not how he likes to operate.