Cardinals at Seahawks gameday thread 11-19-20

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I usually don't complain much about the refs, but they called these on us yet ignored it when they did it.

I may be wrong but I don’t believe we had a single delay of game penalty whistled on us.

 

[Chopper0080]

It shouldn’t be this way, but with each passing game my confidence in Kliff erodes... I am growing more and more convinced Keim swung & missed with Kliffy.. in fact, if not for Murray who, I also have concerns with BUT his out of the stratosphere physical freakness covers which enables him to cover for Kliff, this team would likely have 3, 4, maybe even 5 less wins...

Kliff is far more of a burden than a benefit to this team. We win despite him. If a great, innovative coach is gauged by his ability to call and run horizontal plays, Kliff is surely great then. Otherwise, I see zero evidence to suggest he is some sort of offensive genius. Nothing suggests to me that his mind can produce sustained winning in the NFL.
His play-calling is embarrassingly amateurish.
His game/clock management is consistently out of sync.
His decision-making is almost always more wrong than right. What other NFL coach would’ve challenged that Hyde fumble??? Seriously?
His offense almost always seems rushed and Kyler is consistently scrambling to get the ball snapped with zero time left on the play clock.

As for Murray... I’ve consistently said my piece here. I remain deeply concerned about his terrible throwing mechanics (his poor accuracy was mentioned several times last night by Aikman). He has yet to demonstrate any development with regard to pre-snap reads (again, Aikman brought this up on several occasions during the game). His in-pocket decision making and execution remain deeply concerning.
And I believe speculation about his leadership skills is entirely warranted.
Kyler is without question the most physically gifted QB in the league... so there’s that I guess... [emoji3525]

I struggle to understand this.

 

[DVontel]

I struggle to understand this.

Most of that post is hilarious.

Especially the leadership about Kyler part. Guess he’s not “rah-rah” enough like Baker Mayfield & all that crap.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I keep hearing "At least we are 2 games above .500 !!" but to me we are one miraculous "Hail Murray" grab by Hopkins above .500. Seriously, if he doesn't catch that ball - we would now be 5-5 and in a tailspin. Thanks, NUK.

 

[DVontel]

I keep hearing "At least we are 2 games above .500 !!" but to me we are one miraculous "Hail Murray" grab by Hopkins above .500. Seriously, if he doesn't catch that ball - we would now be 5-5 and in a tailspin. Thanks, NUK.

And if we didn’t score more points than the other teams, we would be 0-10.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Most of that post is hilarious.

Especially the leadership about Kyler part. Guess he’s not “rah-rah” enough like Baker Mayfield & all that crap.

It's still early... Kyler can hopefully mature and develop into the type of leader that can carry a team through the gauntlets that sit before all teams that eventually make it to the promised land...

 

[Brian in Mesa]

And if we didn’t score more points than the other teams, we would be 0-10.

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[82CardsGrad]

I struggle to understand this.

I tend to speak a little fast... Not sure which part you missed though.

In short - I was not a fan of the Kliff hire from the day it was announced and since that day, he hasn't done much to sway my view.
I was 100% supportive of the Kyler pick and remain so. After only 1 1/2 years in the league, he's accomplished a great deal and he's certainly put on full display his freakish athleticism.
However, I remain concerned about his ability to make appropriate pre-snap reads, as well as quick decision and accurate throws from the pocket. I think this off-season - hopefully with no Covid disruptions, will be huge for Kyler in terms of refinement...

Hope that helps!

 

[AZman5103]

I tend to speak a little fast... Not sure which part you missed though.

In short - I was not a fan of the Kliff hire from the day it was announced and since that day, he hasn't done much to sway my view.
I was 100% the Kyler pick and remain so. After only 1 1/2 years in the league, he's accomplished a great deal and he's certainly put on full display his freakish athleticism.
However, I remain concerned about his ability to make appropriate pre-snap reads, as well as quick decision and accurate throws from the pocket. I think this off-season - hopefully with no Covid disruptions, will be huge for Kyler in terms of refinement...

Hope that helps!

I 100% agree that Kliff has not done much to gain confidence in him as a HC. Murray is covering a lot of this offense's holes....and Kyler's ability to scramble make our pressure/sack and basically dead play numbers seem a lot more palatable. For Kliff being an "offensive genius"....we give up a ton of pressure on the QB, we rarely have WR's running open (which is all scheme), and we seem afraid to go down field most of the time.

I actually think we did Kliff a disservice by labeling him the "genius" when his record didn't show it. In an ideal world, we would have had Kliff as an OC under a really established NFL coach for a couple of years....but we decided to let him learn on the job. That means we suffer through the growing pains. I hope he starts to put things together, because right now if you took Murray off this team, we would be Mike McCoy level bad on offense...and thats with a lot of skill.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I 100% agree that Kliff has not done much to gain confidence in him as a HC. Murray is covering a lot of this offense's holes....and Kyler's ability to scramble make our pressure/sack and basically dead play numbers seem a lot more palatable. For Kliff being an "offensive genius"....we give up a ton of pressure on the QB, we rarely have WR's running open (which is all scheme), and we seem afraid to go down field most of the time.

I actually think we did Kliff a disservice by labeling him the "genius" when his record didn't show it. In an ideal world, we would have had Kliff as an OC under a really established NFL coach for a couple of years....but we decided to let him learn on the job. That means we suffer through the growing pains. I hope he starts to put things together, because right now if you took Murray off this team, we would be Mike McCoy level bad on offense...and thats with a lot of skill.

Agreed... at this stage, if I were Keim, I'd be thinking of going out and grabbing a proven OC to call the plays and mentor Kliff. Or, demote Kliff to OC and hire someone he can learn from.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I may be wrong but I don’t believe we had a single delay of game penalty whistled on us.

I thought we did?

Or did we call TO before it ran off?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

It shouldn’t be this way, but with each passing game my confidence in Kliff erodes... I am growing more and more convinced Keim swung & missed with Kliffy.. in fact, if not for Murray who, I also have concerns with BUT his out of the stratosphere physical freakness covers which enables him to cover for Kliff, this team would likely have 3, 4, maybe even 5 less wins...

Kliff is far more of a burden than a benefit to this team. We win despite him. If a great, innovative coach is gauged by his ability to call and run horizontal plays, Kliff is surely great then. Otherwise, I see zero evidence to suggest he is some sort of offensive genius. Nothing suggests to me that his mind can produce sustained winning in the NFL.
His play-calling is embarrassingly amateurish.
His game/clock management is consistently out of sync.
His decision-making is almost always more wrong than right. What other NFL coach would’ve challenged that Hyde fumble??? Seriously?
His offense almost always seems rushed and Kyler is consistently scrambling to get the ball snapped with zero time left on the play clock.

As for Murray... I’ve consistently said my piece here. I remain deeply concerned about his terrible throwing mechanics (his poor accuracy was mentioned several times last night by Aikman). He has yet to demonstrate any development with regard to pre-snap reads (again, Aikman brought this up on several occasions during the game). His in-pocket decision making and execution remain deeply concerning.
And I believe speculation about his leadership skills is entirely warranted.
Kyler is without question the most physically gifted QB in the league... so there’s that I guess... [emoji3525]

All good points 82

This team has many flaws that need to be addressed.

The talent is there in many areas, but we never seem to be prepared to start game.

 

[SoonerLou]

I tend to speak a little fast... Not sure which part you missed though.

In short - I was not a fan of the Kliff hire from the day it was announced and since that day, he hasn't done much to sway my view.
I was 100% supportive of the Kyler pick and remain so. After only 1 1/2 years in the league, he's accomplished a great deal and he's certainly put on full display his freakish athleticism.
However, I remain concerned about his ability to make appropriate pre-snap reads, as well as quick decision and accurate throws from the pocket. I think this off-season - hopefully with no Covid disruptions, will be huge for Kyler in terms of refinement...

Hope that helps!

I 100% agree that Kliff has not done much to gain confidence in him as a HC. Murray is covering a lot of this offense's holes....and Kyler's ability to scramble make our pressure/sack and basically dead play numbers seem a lot more palatable. For Kliff being an "offensive genius"....we give up a ton of pressure on the QB, we rarely have WR's running open (which is all scheme), and we seem afraid to go down field most of the time.

I actually think we did Kliff a disservice by labeling him the "genius" when his record didn't show it. In an ideal world, we would have had Kliff as an OC under a really established NFL coach for a couple of years....but we decided to let him learn on the job. That means we suffer through the growing pains. I hope he starts to put things together, because right now if you took Murray off this team, we would be Mike McCoy level bad on offense...and thats with a lot of skill.

I think this is the crux of it. I truly believe if Kliff was just an OC the offense would be better. I even feel if he was just a HC and not a play caller he'd be better as well. Its so HARD to be a HC and play caller in the NFL. Even some of the better offensive minds have other guys calling plays. I think he's got the potential to be a really good coach/play caller...he's just finding his way at balancing both on the NFL level.

And yes the genius talk was setting him up as a target. I think the fact its not a true Air Raid (which is the right decision though imo) sets him up to get picked on by media analysts. Cause he's not doing a whole lot different from other teams.

I think Kliff will be fine in time....he's just really dependent on Kyler's growth. It allows for both to learn how to win on the NFL.

 

[TaylorSwift]

It shouldn’t be this way, but with each passing game my confidence in Kliff erodes... I am growing more and more convinced Keim swung & missed with Kliffy.. in fact, if not for Murray who, I also have concerns with BUT his out of the stratosphere physical freakness covers which enables him to cover for Kliff, this team would likely have 3, 4, maybe even 5 less wins...

Kliff is far more of a burden than a benefit to this team. We win despite him. If a great, innovative coach is gauged by his ability to call and run horizontal plays, Kliff is surely great then. Otherwise, I see zero evidence to suggest he is some sort of offensive genius. Nothing suggests to me that his mind can produce sustained winning in the NFL.
His play-calling is embarrassingly amateurish.
His game/clock management is consistently out of sync.
His decision-making is almost always more wrong than right. What other NFL coach would’ve challenged that Hyde fumble??? Seriously?
His offense almost always seems rushed and Kyler is consistently scrambling to get the ball snapped with zero time left on the play clock.

As for Murray... I’ve consistently said my piece here. I remain deeply concerned about his terrible throwing mechanics (his poor accuracy was mentioned several times last night by Aikman). He has yet to demonstrate any development with regard to pre-snap reads (again, Aikman brought this up on several occasions during the game). His in-pocket decision making and execution remain deeply concerning.
And I believe speculation about his leadership skills is entirely warranted.
Kyler is without question the most physically gifted QB in the league... so there’s that I guess... [emoji3525]

Yet this team is 6-4 and Kyler looks unstoppable when not hurt and Kliffs play calling is sound.

 

[FB94]

This game sums up what’s wrong with Thursday night football. The game seemed sluggish for the most part. Physically and maybe more mentally the Cards were not there. First half hangover from the high of the Bills game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I thought we did?

Or did we call TO before it ran off?

Called TO, but was unnecessary bc kyler got it off. Wasted timeout.

 

[82CardsGrad]

All good points 82

This team has many flaws that need to be addressed.

The talent is there in many areas, but we never seem to be prepared to start game.

We have talent in certain areas as you say BCF... but, more importantly, we are lacking talent and depth in other areas. Specifically:

- D-Line: Yes, Chandler is out. But was he doing much this year anyway? Peters? And where is the depth??

- LBers: Hicks is good, not great... Simmons is coming but of course, has a TON to still learn. I am not sold on Campbell. And while Reddick has improved, I don't believe he is a consistent enough play-making presence. And why Gardeck doesn't see more playing time is lost on me... Kenard has been a bust of a FA. ZERO quality depth...

- Secondary: We're just below middle of the pack in the NFL in most defensive passing stats... But as we know, PP21 is clearly on the downside of his career. Kirkpatrick is serviceable at best (I'm being kind). Murphy has been solid and then disappears. Injuries have been a problem, particularly at Safety... and Budda has been more than good enough to earn his contract. But again, ZERO quality depth...

Elsewhere, I honestly can't wrap my head around how we got 4 (or was it 5) false starts last night on offense when there were no fans! Coaching... lack of preparation...
If a 2nd rounder can be a bust, Isabella fits the billing. And yet, on arguably the most crucial play of the game 3rd and 10 and under a minute left, Murray chooses to throw to him down at the goal-line as he's double-teamed no less! Pathetic...
And do I need to point out that on the final play of the game where Kyler was sacked, the Hawks rushed only 3!!! Right Tackle remains a problem... And Sweezy's Safety-causing holding penalty was inexcusable for anyone, let alone an 8 year veteran!
At RB, I don't believe Drake is worthy of a new contract... I wouldn't bring him back. Love Chase, but he's a great change of pace & 3rd down back, not an every-down back...

Bottom line for me is that the only legit chance this team has of winning, is if Kyler plays at a MVP level - especially against higher quality teams. If Kyler plays at levels less than MVP, it's all but certain we will lose.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Where is the depth on the d-line?

Everyone is hurt!

I think Keim will draft a bunch of defensive players in the upcoming draft. Even when fully healthy, the defensive talent is still about average for the NFL.

Order of priority is tricky:
1. CB
2. Edge Rusher
3. NT
4. ILB

Peterson could very well not be back, and the Cardinals don’t have any outside corners of note under contract next year. The Cardinals have about $24.5mm in space next year per Spotrac, so if they don’t bring back Peterson, I would expect a chunk of that would go to a vet or two at the CB position. Of course, to the extent the position is addressed in FA there is less of a need to draft one, but I think the way things shake out the Cardinals will look to get a CB in Round 1 or 2 that can play outside.

A Few Options at CB:
1. Jaycee Horn, South Carolina, 20 (for another week) is a big physical outside CB that plays press man and has good ball skills. It will be curious to see what he runs. If he goes 4.45 or faster then he would be a great option to deal with DK and Deebo.

2. Patrick Surtain II, Alabama, 20 is similar to Horn in size and physical prowess. He may be slightly more refined in technique than Horn.

3. Shaun Wade, Ohio State, 22 is an interesting corner with diverse experience. He played slot and some safety in 18 and 19 for the Buckeyes and is now playing outside. He is another big long guy and he plays with power in the run game as well.

4. Caleb Farley, Virginia Tech, 22 appears to be the most technically sound of the group. He was a dynamic high school QB that switched to CB in Blacksburg and was left on an island constantly. He is big and long, but also had injury issues in college. He sat out this year (not injury related)

5. Eric Stokes, Georgia, 21 is another outside CB that is a blanket on X receivers. He doesn’t have great ball skills, but his instincts and short area quickness are valuable in red zone situations.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Called TO, but was unnecessary bc kyler got it off. Wasted timeout.

Killed the momentum and visibly ticked off Kyler because he had gotten the play off in time.

 

[SoonerLou]

Obviously need defensive help, but I still think another playmaker on offense is needed.

We're throwing screen passes to.....Fitz. Need a legit YAC guy.

 

[AZman5103]

Obviously need defensive help, but I still think another playmaker on offense is needed.

We're throwing screen passes to.....Fitz. Need a legit YAC guy.

You know I was thinking last night, I'm not sure why we are not using Fitz in Arnolds spot. Fitz is actually a better blocker, and still has great hands. He just needs to be matched up with LBs. I think Fitz would actually hold his own at TE, he is a really high effort blocker.

Just like when Arians moved Fitz into the slot, is it time we rethink his role again? I wish we would have been able to pick up someone like John Ross or another option at WR before the deadline for cheap.

You are starting to see them split chase out wide because hes our 4th best WR right now.

 

[DVontel]

You know I was thinking last night, I'm not sure why we are not using Fitz in Arnolds spot. Fitz is actually a better blocker, and still has great hands. He just needs to be matched up with LBs. I think Fitz would actually hold his own at TE, he is a really high effort blocker.

Just like when Arians moved Fitz into the slot, is it time we rethink his role again? I wish we would have been able to pick up someone like John Ross or another option at WR before the deadline for cheap.

You are starting to see them split chase out wide because hes our 4th best WR right now.

Probably because Dan is faster than Fitz.

 

[Ronin]

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[Chopper0080]

I tend to speak a little fast... Not sure which part you missed though.

In short - I was not a fan of the Kliff hire from the day it was announced and since that day, he hasn't done much to sway my view.
I was 100% supportive of the Kyler pick and remain so. After only 1 1/2 years in the league, he's accomplished a great deal and he's certainly put on full display his freakish athleticism.
However, I remain concerned about his ability to make appropriate pre-snap reads, as well as quick decision and accurate throws from the pocket. I think this off-season - hopefully with no Covid disruptions, will be huge for Kyler in terms of refinement...

Hope that helps!

So you are concerned about a young QB who had a limited number of college games and snaps not being a refined player? You aren't wrong for pointing out his areas where he struggles, but this what we were getting when we drafted a QB with less than 20 games started.

As far as Kliff...vet players like him. Young players seem to develop. He is flexible. He doesn't cause drama. Does he have areas where he can improve...sure. But, he is a top 15 HC...why are we upset about that?

 

[Ronin]

ICYMI or want to see it again.

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