Cardinals Do Not Have a Plan (or Clue)

[clif]

Perhaps during Whisenhut's interview process, the conversation went like this:

Graves: How do you feel about the talent level of our team?

Whiz: You have assembled a great group of players. The biggest problem that I see is that your old coach stunk on ice.

Graves: So you don't see a wholesale purge of the existing players?

Whiz: No. We need to get rid of that Big waste of cap space, along with some of the deadwood, but I think we have a playoff team in place - if properly coached.

Graves: So, no big splash in free agency?

Whiz: No - just depth.

Graves: How about a replacement at LT?

Whiz: We had our eye on a guy all last season who played at ________ U. We'll draft him in the ___ round and with Grimm as mentor, we'll be fine.

Graves: Aren't you concerned that this will really piss Walt off?

Whiz: Sometime things like that just can't be helped.

The Shark

 

[red desert]

What would that be.

You. Your high school naivete on these matters.

 

[clif]

You. Your high school naivete on these matters.

I just choose not to get my MANties in a bunch like alot of you.

 

[PACardsFan]

NO. NO. NO. NO.

That is just not right. The problem is not that we have not signed anyone. The problem is the SAME DARN PROBLEM THAT has plagued this team for almost a decade.

We need to upgrade our offensive line. And I don't want to hear about "coaching up" our line. That BS has been blown up my rear for 5 years now and "coaching up" has done NOTHING!

Pashos, Stichomb, Pettigout, and Gandy are not blockbuster players but they are a heck of a lot better than Oliver Ross, and the rest of our offensive linemen that are not our starting 4 players.

This team has so much talent that if the line just gets in the defense's way not even block them as much as re-direct them we score 28 pts.

How about strong side linebacker? Who is going to play there? Calvin Pace? Yeah, now that you mention it I can see how saving money and not spending it on Brian Simmons is the right thing to do. I mean Calvin Pace tore it up last year

And I can care less about how well people think Whiz, and Grimm know how to do their jobs and win. I heard the same BS about Denny Green and it got us no where. Bottom line this team has to get better. Show me some wins and THEN I will give the current staff some slack.

Finally, You don't like the "whining" then hit the road jack. I am enjoying reading and typing about how this team is missing oppourtunities. I spent 11 hours at work today, and I have no kids. This is what I want to do with my time so if you don't like it. Then leave. Go spend more time at work or with your kids since the "whining" is so unbearable.

You go right ahead & enjoy the whining. Maybe working 11 hours today has made you overly irritable. Do yourself a favor & go to bed early.

 

[TheCardFan]

Please just stick to posting from KFFL.

Did they not sign Oliver Ross and Milford Brown the last two offseasons? ...and Al Jonhson THIS season? GMAFB

First of all...you have to be joking!

Secondly, it's from Rotoworld not KFFL but I know you don't care about facts.

Thirdly, ...you made my point!

Oliver Ross is and was a bum that nobody else wanted at the time...including me, go back and look at the posts from 2 yrs ago! He flopped.

Milford Brown was a nobody with less than 1yr of starting experience combined for the 4 yrs since he left college! And he played on an Oline as bad or worse than ours in Houston.

Al Johnson is a back-up C.

This is addressing the line? No wonder your happy with losing!

We should change the name to the Arizona Pollyanna's!

 

[red desert]

There comes a point where you have to do what's best for the football team...you can't expect to sign a "perfect player" or fit at every postion.

When the Cardinals decided to let LD walk...which is fine becuase he wasn't, IMO, anywhere near deserving of the salary he was asking for...the whole organization has to sit down and decide: Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, and Plan D...

The fact that NO free agent tackles at all have been brought in, means there was NO PLAN...maybe it was to go after Derrick Dockery? OK, but he signed with Buffalo, so what was Plan B? Plan C? Plan D?

Is it reasonable to assume that (1) Joe Thomas will slide to #5??? Too risky to assume that; (2) that the #38 pick, be it Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh, is ready to step in and be a decent NLF starter at a position that is so critical to the Cardinals' success?

This is why a Luke Pettigout, warts and all, makes sense. He has performed at a solid level in the past...Yes, he has false start problems...but with good coaching and a change of scenery maybe he comes in and plays solidly enough to take you to the playoffs...and what is he going to cost the team? Probably less than half of what LD was going to command. Meanwhile...you groom a Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh.

Great point. In Somer's article this morning, or yesterday, was Wis not quoted as saying something to the tune of, "free ageny has surprised us how fast folks are signing?"

What the hell is that comment about? You're only surprised if you're not prepared. That comment really does give me reason for pause.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Everyone please calm down. It is too early to panic. there are still players we can sign to improve the team and there is still hope we can draft Thomas. If Wells and Ross are named the starting tackles then we can panic. Since I don't have access to the inner workings of the front office I will give them the benefit of the doubt that there is a plan but it might take longer than 3-5 days to implement.

 

[TheCardFan]

Who are these "great offensive lineman" that are available? This is what I don't get about you guys, there isn't great talent out there!

You want to argue?

Ruben Brown - 9 Pro Bowls including last year and played in the Super Bowl where TJ had over 100 yds.

Kris Dielman, Steinbach, Pashos, and Stinchcomb are all better than anyone we have on our roster right now!

But who do they bring in? A back-up C and a lousy T who is an average G.

And no, I didn't get this info from KFFL!

 

[TheCardFan]

Didnt people learn from the Colvin or Hartwell experiences? FAs in the past would merely just come out here to visit so they could use/abuse the Cardinals by getting them into a negotiating battle w/another team to drive-up the ante.. their cost....

Colvin has worked out Hartwell flamed.

Its about being smart and using the draft and FA to fill voids...

 

[CardinalChris]

Having a plan and being able to implement said plan are two different things.

 

[slanidrac16]

I've got to believe that Whiz and Grimm have got to think that Ross is somebody they can get up to speed. Gorin is a guy that had to play against the STeelers a number of times and was totally forgoten about last year. I also got to believe that both Grimm and Whiz saw such ineptness in scheme, philosophy and technique that the new system will make better us better with the current players already on the roster.
We will see.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

You want to argue?

Ruben Brown - 9 Pro Bowls including last year and played in the Super Bowl where TJ had over 100 yds.

Kris Dielman, Steinbach, Pashos, and Stinchcomb are all better than anyone we have on our roster right now!

But who do they bring in? A back-up C and a lousy T who is an average G.

And no, I didn't get this info from KFFL!

Do you we actually know that Rod Graves & Co. did contact the agents/reps of these players, however, they rejected coming-out here for varying reasons....

Perhaps some of these players viewing the Cards having a new coach being under a rebuilding mode...and some of these FAs are entering what might be their final contract.... You notice teams like NE have signed several of the elite talent, but we obviously know they arent too far removed from recent glory......Sure.. the Cards might have all the necessary cap space, however, there are some players who actually put higher priorities over money... plus.. perhaps several rather play out East than in the South West...

There are so many events/facts that unfortunately we're not made privvy of....

Oh.. the KFFL... I think Ryan has you mixed-up w/imacardfan who pads his post count by constantly citing KFFL.....

 

[TheCardFan]

Oh.. the KFFL... I think Ryan has you mixed-up w/imacardfan who pads his post count by constantly citing KFFL.....

Someone with 27k posts is calling out another post padder?

At leaset imacardfan has his post padding facts straight.

RyanPFT...hey, if we throw 27k out there, something is bound to stick!

 

[joeshmo]

Do you we actually know that Rod Graves & Co. did contact the agents/reps of these players, however, they rejected coming-out here for varying reasons....

Perhaps some of these players viewing the Cards having a new coach being under a rebuilding mode...and some of these FAs are entering what might be their final contract.... You notice teams like NE have signed several of the elite talent, but we obviously know they arent too far removed from recent glory......Sure.. the Cards might have all the necessary cap space, however, there are some players who actually put higher priorities over money... plus.. perhaps several rather play out East than in the South West...

After so many years of hearing that excuse isnt it about time we stop using that as a crutch to make us feel better for not succeeding. After being dumped by, used by, or just plain old not taking our phone calls for years by so many free agents you have to start to wonder if its the players or if its you (the FO).

It is called being a good salesmen, being a good a good GM. Getting players to believe in your philosphy and come down for a visit.

If Graves cant be that guy then we need a new guy.

 

[Capital Card]

Wow. Everyone is really worked up over the OL.

I thought they played decently over the last half of the season. Not great, and certainly not against the cream of the league, but not "dog poo" either.

Of that line, correct me if I'm wrong, but we only lost LD, the one guy with easily 50 threads over the past two years on this site devoted to people saying we should get rid of the guy.

There weren't any OT's in this free agency group that got me excited this year. OG's... sure, there were a few I thought would have been major upgrades for us, but they're all gone now. I don't want some concilitory hack just to sign someone for the sake of signing someone.

Barring some miracle, we're going into the season with Ross, Wells, Gorin, and the butcher on 34th and Van Buren as our Tackles. My guess is that we'll take a Tackle with either our 1st or 2nd pick and he'll be starting by the second half of the season. Big Deal.

What if this "plan" gets Leinart hurt? Again, big deal... he got hurt on Leonard Davis' watch and frankley, Big was our best option at LT for this year.

I just can't understand why so many people are so pissed off that we aren't signing the "best" of what appears to be the worst free agent OT class in the history of the free agency. As bad as Gorin and Ross may seem to be, they're no worse that what is currently available.... and if so, not by much.

Go Cards!!!

 

[KingLouieLouie]

After so many years of hearing that excuse isnt it about time we stop using that as a crutch to make us feel better for not succeeding. After being dumped by, used by, or just plain old not taking our phone calls for years by so many free agents you have to start to wonder if its the players or if its you (the FO).

It is called being a good salesmen, being a good a good GM. Getting players to believe in your philosphy and come down for a visit.

If Graves cant be that guy then we need a new guy.

Can Graves change where the Cardinals are geographically located? I mean.... that some times does factor into a players decision whether or not they want to sign somewhere....... Its not a crutch..... it factors in as the truth.. the are things beyond the FO control that does prevent a player from coming-out for a visit.......

You or no one else on here knows everything that goes on behind-the-scenes... then if you do.. you must be one of the Bidwills or Rod Graves himself.. or anyone else who works in some higher capacity in the FO... but obviously.. I highly doubt you do....

 

[ajcardfan]

There are roughly 15 teams who haven't signed ANYONE.

How many of those 15 teams have the cap room we have?

Have any of them brought in 6 guys to visit?

Do any of them have basically no important free agents of their own to re-sign after letting their top one walk?



Honestly, I don't know the answers to those questions. But, I'm highly confident that not one of those 15 teams can answer "Yes" to all those questions.

 

[red desert]

Can Graves change where the Cardinals are geographically located? I mean.... that some times does factor into a players decision whether or not they want to sign somewhere....... Its not a crutch..... it factors in as the truth.. the are things beyond the FO control that does prevent a player from coming-out for a visit.......

You or no one else on here knows everything that goes on behind-the-scenes... then if you do.. you must be one of the Bidwills or Rod Graves himself.. or anyone else who works in some higher capacity in the FO... but obviously.. I highly doubt you do....

Wow. Just wow.

 

[ajcardfan]

Wow. Everyone is really worked up over the OL.

I thought they played decently over the last half of the season. Not great, and certainly not against the cream of the league, but not "dog poo" either.

Yes, they showed improvement. What's discouraging to me, is that we seem set on reshuffling at least 3 spots again. And, we have yet to improve the talent. If we get Thomas, fine, I'll be as happy as a pig in slop. But, if we decide to plug in Gandy or Ross, I'll be concerned as hell for Leinart.

 

[BigRedArk]

Yes, they showed improvement. What's discouraging to me, is that we seem set on reshuffling at least 3 spots again. And, we have yet to improve the talent. If we get Thomas, fine, I'll be as happy as a pig in slop. But, if we decide to plug in Gandy or Ross, I'll be concerned as hell for Leinart.

It's not an official football season unless the Cardinals are playing musical chairs on the OL.!!!!

 

[CardinalChris]

Do you we actually know that Rod Graves & Co. did contact the agents/reps of these players, however, they rejected coming-out here for varying reasons....

Perhaps some of these players viewing the Cards having a new coach being under a rebuilding mode...and some of these FAs are entering what might be their final contract.... You notice teams like NE have signed several of the elite talent, but we obviously know they arent too far removed from recent glory......Sure.. the Cards might have all the necessary cap space, however, there are some players who actually put higher priorities over money... plus.. perhaps several rather play out East than in the South West...

This has crossed my mind a time or two. The players seem to be going to stable coaching or organizational structures. We are neither. So we have to fight through that. I guarantee several players simply wouldn't consider playing for this team because of the history, coaching staff flux and ownership issues.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

People need to settle down or take breaks from the board. No name calling.

 

[ajcardfan]

This has crossed my mind a time or two. The players seem to be going to stable coaching or organizational structures. We are neither. So we have to fight through that. I guarantee several players simply wouldn't consider playing for this team because of the history, coaching staff flux and ownership issues.

I disagree. Strongly.

We did a pretty damn good job getting the guys we wanted the last three years. Last year people were raving about how the Cards had changed and they had aggressively landed all of their top targets in the first three days of free agency. For 95% of free agents, financial security is by far the overriding factor. Then, feeling like they are really wanted. For about half of the visits, we haven't even made an offer yet (Leach, Kaesvaharn) or made it after they left (Hood, Kelly). All that does is tell those guys we aren't THAT sure we want them. That's not how we did business the last three years, that's the old way Graves did business.

 

[WildBB]

Finally someone who makes sense!!!!!!!! I am so sick of the whining & gnashing of teeth from people on this board. This has been the WORST FA group the NFL has ever put out & yet everyone wants to rush out & sign this garbage. We spent a lot of money in free agency the past couple of years & where did it get us??? 5-11, 6-10, 5-11. This team needs SOME depth & PLENTY of real NFL coaching. Whisenhunt & Grimm have experienced what it takes to win during the free agency area, so let them do their jobs. Free Agency does not build strong organizations, the DRAFT does. Spend more time at work or with your kids, but please stop the whining.

 

[CardinalChris]

I disagree. Strongly.

We did a pretty damn good job getting the guys we wanted the last three years. Last year people were raving about how the Cards had changed and they had aggressively landed all of their top targets in the first three days of free agency. For 95% of free agents, financial security is by far the overriding factor. Then, feeling like they are really wanted. For about half of the visits, we haven't even made an offer yet (Leach, Kaesvaharn) or made it after they left (Hood, Kelly). All that does is tell those guys we aren't THAT sure we want them. That's not how we did business the last three years, that's the old way Graves did business.

That was then. You don't think the complete change in coaching staffs (again) doesn't make free agents nervous?