Cardinals Free Agent Targets

[lobo]

There is no scenerio in which you let a good OT go without someone to take his place and taking 2 steps back. I dont care less if he isnt worth 11 Mill in one season, we have the cap space, so much so it wont hinder our FA process one bit, and it isnt my money.[/quote]


i think it is simple as that....we can talk about all the FA's we want or getting Thomas (which I hope we can)....we will not be able to replace the talent easily if at all...pay market value for a year...or sign him to a long term..but don't let him go....BUT we don't sign the checks...if i were to guess..franchised.

something like the price baseball teams are paying for pitching...it is totally outrageous but there are so few guys available....

 

[vinnymac]

davis isn't worth a franchise tag and he shouldn't get paid like a franchise player. y'all said davis was the sixth best tackle in the nfc. now you guys are saying he the sixth best tackle in the league. which one is it. y'all are a bunch of flip flopers. during the season it is get rid of davis and all his false starts, and now it is keep him at all cost. please. if davis will sign as an average tackle then i am all for it, but not to go to extreme of frachising him. he not worth it.

 

[40yearfan]

Bottom line is you just don't let Davis walk away and get nothing in return. What is the harm of tagging him? It gives us time to negotiate a sensible contract with him and weigh all of our alternatives.
If we set Davis free he will get a huge amount of money somewhere else and just might be the first free agent signed on March 1st.

You don't strengthen your team by throwing "good" pieces away for nothing.

One more point. I think many players performances has been hindered or hurt by the last coaching regime. Another thing is losing year in and year out effects players performances too. It's human nature. It's not that a player lets up and plays half as hard or isn't trying, but even a slight let down or lack of focus will lead to mistakes.

Many of you have played sports. Lets take golf. If your heading to the 16th hole with a shot at your personal best round of your life you can bet your are focused. However, the very next day your at the same golf coarse heading into the same hole looking at the worst round of your life, well, lets just say your intensity will be somewhat less as you finish the round.
I know many will respond with "They're professionals and a professional athlete plays hard on every play". True to a point. What I'm saying is a players intensity dosen't have to drop 50% to lose the edge. It could drop 5% on 1 or 2 plays and that may be difference of a missed block or a false start.

And if you are a Cardinal player, many fans will think thats enough to get rid of you.

 

[joeshmo]

davis isn't worth a franchise tag and he shouldn't get paid like a franchise player. y'all said davis was the sixth best tackle in the nfc. now you guys are saying he the sixth best tackle in the league. which one is it. y'all are a bunch of flip flopers. during the season it is get rid of davis and all his false starts, and now it is keep him at all cost. please. if davis will sign as an average tackle then i am all for it, but not to go to extreme of frachising him. he not worth it.

Talk about flip flop, first you say he is a good but not great OT now your saying he is just average.

Well which is it.

I mean I already pointed out why many people changed their minds on keeping or not keeping Davis, that you havent even debated. Now lets here your reasons why you went from Good OT to just Average in a matter of a day.

And Extreme is letting go of a "Good" or "Average" what ever you are calling him these days, OT without a plan to replace him, that goes for any player or position on the roster.

 

[vinnymac]

Talk about flip flop, first you say he is a good but not great OT now your saying he is just average.

Well which is it.

I mean I already pointed out why many people changed their minds on keeping or not keeping Davis, that you havent even debated. Now lets here your reasons why you went from Good OT to just Average in a matter of a day.

And Extreme is letting go of a "Good" or "Average" what ever you are calling him these days, OT without a plan to replace him, that goes for any player or position on the roster.

i said he was a good tackle and he is. i said pay him like an average tackle. quit twisting my words around or learn how to read a sentence correctly.

 

[joeshmo]

i said he was a good tackle and he is. i said pay him like an average tackle. quit twisting my words around or learn how to read a sentence correctly.

So you arent a flip flopper you just dont make any sense.

You want to pay a good OT average OT money? Now I get where you are coming from since you dont even understand the basics of free agency economics.

 

[vinnymac]

i understand joey. y'all are the one's that don't want to addmitt that he hasn't lived up to his 2nd round billing. no pro-bowls to his name. rated 6th in the nfc according to some book that y'all endorse as the law. that tells me that he isn't the great tackle, but you want to pay him as a franchise player. look who doesn't understand the economics. you pay franchise money to people who dominate. i believe everyone here can agree that davis doesn't dominate the offensive line. that is why you pay him average money. now if he proves he can become that franchise player then tear up that average contract and pay the man. he doesn't fall into that franchise player. like i said before if davis made 2-3 probowls then i would be with y'all to sign him at all cost. since he has under achieve since he gotten here. one more thing that comes to mind is this davis isn't a tackle. he is a gaurd. that is all i ever heard throughout this season. switch davis to gaurd his natural position. now y'all want to throw franchise left tackle money to someone most of y'all consider a gaurd. but i don't understand the economics of free agentcy. get a clue

 

[joeshmo]

i understand joey. y'all are the one's that don't want to addmitt that he hasn't lived up to his 2nd round billing. no pro-bowls to his name. rated 6th in the nfc according to some book that y'all endorse as the law. that tells me that he isn't the great tackle, but you want to pay him as a franchise player. look who doesn't understand the economics. you pay franchise money to people who dominate. i believe everyone here can agree that davis doesn't dominate the offensive line. that is why you pay him average money. now if he proves he can become that franchise player then tear up that average contract and pay the man. he doesn't fall into that franchise player. like i said before if davis made 2-3 probowls then i would be with y'all to sign him at all cost. since he has under achieve since he gotten here. one more thing that comes to mind is this davis isn't a tackle. he is a gaurd. that is all i ever heard throughout this season. switch davis to gaurd his natural position. now y'all want to throw franchise left tackle money to someone most of y'all consider a gaurd. but i don't understand the economics of free agentcy. get a clue

1. No one has said anything about living up to or not living up to his 2nd pick status, that hasnt been the issue from day one and still isnt the issue.

2. He isnt ranked 6th. He is in the top 6 as voted on by his peers and coaches who actually play and coach against the guy, not some book we endorse as the law. Where the heck did you get this book idea from? Do you not know how pro bowl voting works. 2/3rds of it is voted on by the players and coaches.

3. There is no LT franchise tag. There is only a OL franchise tag. So even if Davis was a pro bowl OG we would still have to give him average top 5 LT money. And guards are now getting paid just as much as OT's are anyways.

4. You still dont get it. It isnt about if a player is worth their contract or not. If that was the case we should never pay a top 10 pick again and 90% of the players already under contract should be cut or never signed in the first place. It is about if you have the cap space or another player to take the spot at the same or better level, period. In case you havent realized we are not hurting for cap space and we still wont be hurting for cap space if Davis is Franchised.

I can name half the players on our own roster who dont make what they are worth, I dont even know the name of our 1st rounder and can already say he isnt worth his contract. Overpaying for players is the way of the NFL, always has been always will be.

 

[Pariah]

y'all are the one's that don't want to addmitt that he hasn't lived up to his 2nd round billing...get a clue

Who's not admitting that he hasn't lived up to his draft position, and how is that relevent to his current importance to the team?

"get a clue"? Come on, now. You've been presented with plenty of reason why he should be at the very least franchised, and probably attempted to be signed to a long-term deal. Your points have been refuted one by one. You don't seem to grasp Davis' import to the Cardinals nor is worth on the market.

 

[vinnymac]

so we are all agreement that davis is an underachiever

we all agree that he not a pro-bowl player

the book i referring to is "Micheal Lewis Blind Side" or whatever that is. it states according to y"all davis is ranked in the top sixth in the nfc.

you say 2/3 of the pro-bowl voting is by coaches and players. it obvious that coaches and players feel that he doesn't belong in the pro-bowl.

i thoght franchiseing a player means you pay him the average of the top 5 players of his position. the point you are trying to make if he were a pro-bowl gaurd is mute. he is not.


teams over pay players. that is true. since i have proven that davis isn't worth the franchise tag. because no one debating my statement that franchise tag belong to dominate players and davis doesnt dominate, then he not worth overpaying by that much. by franchising him he will be getting paid almost double for what he is worth. you just don't over pay by that much. you can use that cap money to get players that can help improve the team. it might not be used toward the offensive line, but it could be use on the defensive line (charles grant or maybe dwight freeny if he isn't franchised.) a line backer(mitchel,chiefs, or briggs, bears) or a defensive back(ken hamlin, or samuel). i know the cardinals need offensive line. i was just thinking that the eagles have pretty good depth at the offensive line position. so letting tra thomas go isn't to far out of the realm of possibility. you know thomas is going to be looking for a pay day and i think the eagles will go in a different direction.

 

[Pariah]

so we are all agreement that davis is an underachiever

If you're judging him against his draft status, yes. Or, you could say the the Cards and NFL scouts made a mistake when they graded him so high.

we all agree that he not a pro-bowl player

Uh, yeah.

the book i referring to is "Micheal Lewis Blind Side" or whatever that is. it states according to y"all davis is ranked in the top sixth in the nfc.

I read the book. It doesn't say any such thing. It talks about the importance of the LT and how hard it is to find one--the men that can play it well are exceedingly rare.

you say 2/3 of the pro-bowl voting is by coaches and players. it obvious that coaches and players feel that he doesn't belong in the pro-bowl.

But they have decided he's just a step away from it as a two-time alternate.

i thoght franchiseing a player means you pay him the average of the top 5 players of his position. the point you are trying to make if he were a pro-bowl gaurd is mute. he is not.

Moot. Get a clue.

The franchise tag for o-linemen is the same whether you're a LT or a RG. The average comes from all of the salaries along the line, not just the specific position.

teams over pay players. that is true. since i have proven that davis isn't worth the franchise tag. because no one debating my statement that franchise tag belong to dominate players and davis doesnt dominate, then he not worth overpaying by that much.

The franchise tag is for players your franchise can't afford to lose and remain competitive. I think that applies here. And, BTW, I don't think you've proven any of the things you claim to have.

... i was just thinking that the eagles have pretty good depth at the offensive line position. so letting tra thomas go isn't to far out of the realm of possibility. you know thomas is going to be looking for a pay day and i think the eagles will go in a different direction.

If the Cardinals can find a suitable replacement for Big in the offseason, great; Thomas might fit the bill. But smart management would dictate that that is sewn up before letting Big walk and then finding you don't have any other option but to start Fred Wakefield in his place.

The best thing this team can do for its offseason along the offensive line is to retain Davis for at least one more season.

 

[vinnymac]

so jason,

you are saying that leonard davis dominated the offensive line and he worth the franchise tag. the franchise tag was created so you can keep your player that based your franchise around.

rember this is the same guy most of y'all wanted out of town during the season and wanted to move to his "natural" position, gaurd. that is telling me that it didn't matter to most of you who took over the tackle position. now all of sudden we need to keep this guy and give him the bank, because there is no body better to replace him. give me a break.

davis had about five good games last season. the rest of them pretty much sucked. this offensive line cost the cardinals their season. i guess let keep the most underachieving tackle and pay him all the money just so we don't have worry about filling a position.

you think with all this salary cap space teams are having, the players are going to want a increase in pay as well. leonard davis is going to want big money and he not worth big money. if wants to sign for what he worth then i am all for it, but if he wants that big money then imo he needs to go find it. i believe y'all are over estimating his worth. i watched the games and he is way overrated.

what i am saying it not going to take much to replace a player like davis. davis isn't worth the big money you all are saying to throw at him. if the cardinals wanted to keep big around then they would extended his contract during the season. or you would at least heard they were talking about it. none of that happened. you would think they would want to shore up this great tackle that everyone is wanting to throw the bank at.

 

[Covert Rain]

The only way I want LD back is if they move that guy to guard and pay him GUARD MONEY. He is not worth left tackle money.

 

[vinnymac]

y'all wont change my mind on this.

 

[Pariah]

so jason,

you are saying that leonard davis dominated the offensive line and he worth the franchise tag. the franchise tag was created so you can keep your player that based your franchise around.

Here's where I stopped reading.

I'm not saying he dominated--but he came darn close. And, yes, I think he is worth the franchise tag--the franchise tag was created so you didn't lose guys you need. The cards need davis right now because THERE IS NO ONE WHO CAN COME CLOSE TO REPLACING HIM.

 

[Pariah]

y'all wont change my mind on this.

Then ya'll just have to continue to be wrong.

 

[CardLogic]

what i am saying it not going to take much to replace a player like davis

Name two, even one, realistic alternatives for the Cardinals to LD next season. Don't claim Joe Thomas because you can't be certain that he will be on the board when the Cardinals pick; on top of that, don't assume that Thomas will perform in the NFL any better or even as well as Davis has. After all Davis was a "can't miss pick"!

Then prior to naming any FA aquisition keep in mind that as of this moment there is no certainty which players will be FA's and on top of that no certainty of signing those players that become FA's.

you think with all this salary cap space teams are having, the players are going to want a increase in pay as well. leonard davis is going to want big money and he not worth big money. if wants to sign for what he worth then i am all for it, but if he wants that big money then imo he needs to go find it. i believe y'all are over estimating his worth. i watched the games and he is way overrated.

. davis isn't worth the big money you all are saying to throw at him. if the cardinals wanted to keep big around then they would extended his contract during the season. or you would at least heard they were talking about it. none of that happened. you would think they would want to shore up this great tackle that everyone is wanting to throw the bank at.

See that little black dot labled equilibrium? That represents Leonard Davis and the franchise tag price.

 

[Zeno]

See that little black dot labled equilibrium? That represents Leonard Davis and the franchise tag price.

Its like talking to a brick wall, no matter how many ways and times you present the facts he refuses to change his mind. Why bother anymore?

 

[vinnymac]

i feel gorin can play that position just as well as davis has.

by the way that is why you target these players and talk to there agents to see what the likely hood of their player resigning with thier team and the likly hood of them signing with your team. you can at least get a feel of what going on.

 

[vinnymac]

the cardinals have boldin and wilson going to the pro bowl. they will be doing some major recruiting up there. especially with the offensive line.

 

[Pariah]

i feel gorin can play that position just as well as davis has.

Based on what?

 

[Mulli]

Based on what?

Madden?

 

[Zeno]

by the way that is why you target these players and talk to there agents to see what the likely hood of their player resigning with thier team and the likly hood of them signing with your team. you can at least get a feel of what going on.

Talking to a players agent before the player is a free agent is illegal. Teams can't talk to players or their representatives about such things while he is still under contract.

And Gorin does not equal Leonard Davis by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[joeshmo]

by the way that is why you target these players and talk to there agents to see what the likely hood of their player resigning with thier team and the likly hood of them signing with your team. you can at least get a feel of what going on.

You have to place the tag on a player 5 days before you can even talk to any agents or players. Its called tampering if you talk to them early. You cant get a feel for nothing unless the player publicly states his FA intentions to the media.

 

[joeshmo]

i feel gorin can play that position just as well as davis has.

So you think Gorin is a Good OT, and would be seen as a top 6 OT in NFC by his peers?