Cardinals | Green lashes out at Leinart

[abomb]

1) Green is tired of the Cards being blamed on this one.

Their first offer was fair not a lowball offer at all (maybe that was a mistake) around 12.6 (slot + 10% + QB premium) now they have gone up to 14 million. That's more then fair!

I'm sure sick of the rumors the Cards lowballed me etc.

Everyone know the amount of both Cards offers now!

2) Green wanted me to show he could be #2. That's rapidly falling by the wayside. Even if I come back I might be #3 at best. With Navarre looking bad Green has to start thinking about getting a #2 QB in here - which he wouldn't if he had me in here since camp learning and repping! Plus that's going to cost them more cap money to sign the new #2 QB!!! Cap money that could have gone to other positions and extensions if I had been in camp and learning and showing he could be #2.

3) I wish they had drafted Cutler he took less so he could go to camp right away!

Thanks Matt. Now go sign the deal.

 

[The Commish]

This is ridiculous. Ultimately the contract will be torn up anyways if Matt lives up to the hype, in which case he will make more than enough money. Not to mention he has inked a couple lucrative endorsement deals. He is beginning to burn bridges with players, coaches, fans and the media. Let's get this done already.

 

[imaCafan]

Personally, I hope we have little or no "need" for him this year, i.e. Kurt stays healthy and plays 16+ games for us this year!!!!!!!!!

 

[abomb]

Personally, I hope we have little or no "need" for him this year, i.e. Kurt stays healthy and plays 16+ games for us this year!!!!!!!!!

 

[40yearfan]

1) Green is tired of the Cards being blamed on this one.

Their first offer was fair not a lowball offer at all (maybe that was a mistake) around 12.6 (slot + 10% + QB premium) now they have gone up to 14 million. That's more then fair!

I am sure he's sick of the rumors the Cards lowballed him etc.

We know the amount of both Cards offers now!

2) Green wanted Leinart to show he could be #2. That's rapidly falling by the wayside. Even if he comes back he might be #3 at best. With Navarre looking bad Green has to start thinking about getting a #2 QB in here - which he wouldn't if he had Leinart in here since camp learning and repping! Plus that's going to cost us more cap money to sign the new #2 QB!!! Cap money that could have gone to other positions and extensions if Leinart had been in camp and learning and showing he could be #2.

3) I wish we had drafted Cutler he took less so he could go to camp right away!

Good take on the situation and maybe a reason why we are still holding on to some cap money.

 

[lobo]

Good for Coach Green.

i totally agree...my guess is that DG expected that this deal was going to be announced TODAY and before he walked into the meeting he found out that it was not going to happen...DG is a smart guy and surely would not shoot his mouth off knowing that the deal was immenent.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

But to me you're looking at it wrong. There are 2 elements to the standard rookie contract, the guaranteed money, and the total overall package. Green said the first is 14, and the second is "top 5".

So clearly under both elements, Matt's deal is BETTER than Sims'? I mean the annual average on guaranteed money only matters for cap hit doesn't it?

I said I wouldn't take less than $15 million guaranteed on a six year deal if I was Leinart. The guaranteed money is the most important thing should Leinart break his neck or wash out of the NFL or who knows what else.

 

[Russ Smith]

I said I wouldn't take less than $15 million guaranteed on a six year deal if I was Leinart. The guaranteed money is the most important thing should Leinart break his neck or wash out of the NFL or who knows what else.

No I get that but it seems like your objection to the guaranteed money is that in a 6 year deal, 14 million comes out to 2.33 while Sims 12. in 5 years is 2.42. My point is the key to guaranteed money is the total value, not the per year average because in general guaranteed money is paid out long before the deal is up(even if it's not all at once in a signing bonus).

The relevant guaranteed amounts are 12.1 for Sims in front of Leinart, and 11 for Cutler behind him, so 14 clearly exceeds both.

 

[Pariah]

I said I wouldn't take less than $15 million guaranteed on a six year deal if I was Leinart. The guaranteed money is the most important thing should Leinart break his neck or wash out of the NFL or who knows what else.

$14M is significantly more than Simms got. I don't know why you'd be stuck on the $15M number; if he breaks his neck he still gets his money--$2M more than Simms would if he broke his.

But, maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

BTW, for all the neck-breaking talk:

 

[blillyl]

That may be the issue right there.

This is ridiculous. Ultimately the contract will be torn up anyways if Matt lives up to the hype, in which case he will make more than enough money. Not to mention he has inked a couple lucrative endorsement deals. He is beginning to burn bridges with players, coaches, fans and the media. Let's get this done already.

The agent and Matt knows the same thing that other teams drafting before the Cards knew. Hence they are trying to get as much as they can now. May not be a second payday

 

[dreamcastrocks]

$14M is significantly more than Simms got. I don't know why you'd be stuck on the $15M number; if he breaks his neck he still gets his money--$2M more than Simms would if he broke his.

But, maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

BTW, for all the neck-breaking talk:

Actually, that is not the case, and one of the big sticking points, from what I heard. The Cards want injury protection from Leinart, and want to play him significantly less if he is injured, because of his previous injuries.

 

[Pariah]

Actually, that is not the case, and one of the big sticking points, from what I heard. The Cards want injury protection from Leinart, and want to play him significantly less if he is injured, because of his previous injuries.

Well, that's interesting, and a legitimate hold up, IMO.

I can see both sides of that one.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Well, that's interesting, and a legitimate hold up, IMO.

I can see both sides of that one.

I read that they (Cards) want a 2 million buyout clause if he is significantly injured. Leinart's camp want about 75% guaranteed.

 

[Mitch]

Bad news all around on this one.

You can say good for DG...but, really, airing his frustration with contract proposal details to the media is poor judgment and a huge mistake.

Obviously the Condon camp is hung up over some of the language in the contract proposal...it may have nothing to do with the $14M up front.

Not to say that Condon is right...in fact, this holdout creates more bad publicity for Leinart than anything else...who is being perceived, justly or unjustly, as wanting to be given special treatment...special considerations...after all, he is "Matt Hollywood."

As I said in earlier posts, Leinart's image...and the perception of his image will be something he will have to deal with, especially now that the spotlight is all on him as the lone remaining unsigned draft pick.

For DG to blast Leinart publicly today...how will his Cardinal teammates react to him now, if and when he does get into camp? Many of you have already said that they would be cool about it. You still feel that way now?

This is a lose-lose situation...DG loses for exercising poor judgement...and ML loses for the inevitable hits on his growing reputation for being Hollywood around the league.

 

[kerouac9]

No I get that but it seems like your objection to the guaranteed money is that in a 6 year deal, 14 million comes out to 2.33 while Sims 12. in 5 years is 2.42. My point is the key to guaranteed money is the total value, not the per year average because in general guaranteed money is paid out long before the deal is up(even if it's not all at once in a signing bonus).

The relevant guaranteed amounts are 12.1 for Sims in front of Leinart, and 11 for Cutler behind him, so 14 clearly exceeds both.

Yeah, but you're waiting longer for the big payday, which is the second contract. I think the understanding is that if you want to keep him an extra year, then you're going to have to pay a greater guaranteed money.

The total value is the other number (the $45 million that Vince Young got), which is essentially a vanity number, anyway. I suspect that the Cards might still be trying to nudge Condon and Leinart in the playing time escalators. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that Matt could take 40-45% of the snaps in the next two seasons without being named the official starter, and he should kick in an escalator if that's the case.

 

[Russ Smith]

Actually, that is not the case, and one of the big sticking points, from what I heard. The Cards want injury protection from Leinart, and want to play him significantly less if he is injured, because of his previous injuries.

We're not sure there, Green quite CLEARLY said 14 million guaranteed, that the rumor the Cards were not willing to guarantee enough was false. Now does that mean there's no injury buyout clause, who knows?

Did Green simply choose not to mention an injury buyout, or is that really not an issue?

 

[JC_AZ]

I heard that Matt wants to be worth more than Paris and only be required to be slightly more useful...might not be true, but neither might a lot of other things being relayed in here...

Leinart is being a Prima Donna, we all know, but we are all so worried about Navarre backing up KW that some are finding BS justification for this holdout...he has proven nothing at this level and $14 mil should be plenty of incentive to WORK toward making his career a success.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We're not sure there, Green quite CLEARLY said 14 million guaranteed, that the rumor the Cards were not willing to guarantee enough was false. Now does that mean there's no injury buyout clause, who knows?

Did Green simply choose not to mention an injury buyout, or is that really not an issue?

This is something that we do not know.

This is speculation at this point, but something that was written about.

 

[conraddobler]

Bad news all around on this one.

You can say good for DG...but, really, airing his frustration with contract proposal details to the media is poor judgment and a huge mistake.

Obviously the Condon camp is hung up over some of the language in the contract proposal...it may have nothing to do with the $14M up front.

Not to say that Condon is right...in fact, this holdout creates more bad publicity for Leinart than anything else...who is being perceived, justly or unjustly, as wanting to be given special treatment...special considerations...after all, he is "Matt Hollywood."

As I said in earlier posts, Leinart's image...and the perception of his image will be something he will have to deal with, especially now that the spotlight is all on him as the lone remaining unsigned draft pick.

For DG to blast Leinart publicly today...how will his Cardinal teammates react to him now, if and when he does get into camp? Many of you have already said that they would be cool about it. You still feel that way now?

This is a lose-lose situation...DG loses for exercising poor judgement...and ML loses for the inevitable hits on his growing reputation for being Hollywood around the league.

I hate DG too but on this one I'm with him 100%.

He did the right thing, he basically laid down the law and said ok kid I'm calling your bluff, the guy in charge of you hitting your bonuses is tiring of your greed right now.

He laid it all out there and since he's not been part of the Cardinals forever he's got cred on this they wouldn't have.

He put the $ and terms out there and threw the ball directly into their court, this is a final stand type of thing that means, sign the thing or go back into the draft.

Leinart goes back into the draft, I hope he never plays a down of NFL football, that's greed and selfishness to the nth power and I might add we should just sign someone else to be the backup and move on.

DG summed it up, it's more than fair, sign or get off the pot.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah, but you're waiting longer for the big payday, which is the second contract. I think the understanding is that if you want to keep him an extra year, then you're going to have to pay a greater guaranteed money.

The total value is the other number (the $45 million that Vince Young got), which is essentially a vanity number, anyway. I suspect that the Cards might still be trying to nudge Condon and Leinart in the playing time escalators. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that Matt could take 40-45% of the snaps in the next two seasons without being named the official starter, and he should kick in an escalator if that's the case.

Again, 14 million IS a greater guaranteed money than 12.1. I seriously doubt that Matt has to play 6 years to get that money, typically it's all in the first 3 years of the deal.

as for delay to the next big payday, the way the NFL is supposed to work is a guy slips, he gets into camp, plays his ass off, and earns a better deal. Roethlisberger did that, and might have already gotten a better deal if not for his bike accident. My opinion is that if Matt were signed, and won the job next year or the year after, and played well, the Cards would give him a better deal. they did that for Boldin, there's no reason to think they wouldn't do that for Leinart if he outplays his first contract.

What Leinart is trying to do is guarantee his money on the first contract, which really makes me wonder if he too is worried about his health, and guess what, that's why he slipped in the first place. He can't have it both ways, he can't be mad he slipped on injury concerns, and then be unwilling to sign a contract out of fear it doesn't guarantee enough in case of injury.

Admittedly I'm just mad, Green's outburst wasn't an accident, he clearly felt someone needed to publicly embarass Leinart and Condon.

 

[40yearfan]

I hate DG too but on this one I'm with him 100%.

He did the right thing, he basically laid down the law and said ok kid I'm calling your bluff, the guy in charge of you hitting your bonuses is tiring of your greed right now.

He laid it all out there and since he's not been part of the Cardinals forever he's got cred on this they wouldn't have.

He put the $ and terms out there and threw the ball directly into their court, this is a final stand type of thing that means, sign the thing or go back into the draft.

Leinart goes back into the draft, I hope he never plays a down of NFL football, that's greed and selfishness to the nth power and I might add we should just sign someone else to be the backup and move on.

DG summed it up, it's more than fair, sign or get off the pot.

 

[Ryanwb]

You can say good for DG...but, really, airing his frustration with contract proposal details to the media is poor judgment and a huge mistake.

Per usual you find fault with anything DG does.... I'm with him 100% on this one. It's nice we have a coach that doesn't sugar coat everything and make life to be all about sugar and sausages. We could go to back to the Dave McGinnis era where he conducted the orchestra as the ship was sinking.

 

[40yearfan]

Per usual you find fault with anything DG does.... I'm with him 100% on this one. It's nice we have a coach that doesn't sugar coat everything and make life to be all about sugar and sausages. We could go to back to the Dave McGinnis era where he conducted the orchestra as the ship was sinking.

Ryan, this is a first for me. The first time I've ever seen those two food groups put together.

 

[Toro]

Leinart's family needs to step in and tell his agent to get the deal done. If he is the real deal, he will get a big time deal in three or four years.

Condon does not have the best rep in the business.

 

[kerouac9]

as for delay to the next big payday, the way the NFL is supposed to work is a guy slips, he gets into camp, plays his ass off, and earns a better deal. Roethlisberger did that, and might have already gotten a better deal if not for his bike accident. My opinion is that if Matt were signed, and won the job next year or the year after, and played well, the Cards would give him a better deal. they did that for Boldin, there's no reason to think they wouldn't do that for Leinart if he outplays his first contract.

What Leinart is trying to do is guarantee his money on the first contract, which really makes me wonder if he too is worried about his health, and guess what, that's why he slipped in the first place. He can't have it both ways, he can't be mad he slipped on injury concerns, and then be unwilling to sign a contract out of fear it doesn't guarantee enough in case of injury.

Man, it depends. I didn't hear anything about the Steelers looking to re-do Ben R.'s deal this season. Look at how Hines Ward played for a low deal and he didn't get his deal re-done until he held out. Both Peyton Manning and Edgerring James played their keisters off in Indy, and both finished out their rookie contracts. Same with Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jamal Lewis, Champ Bailey, and Shaun Alexander. I'm sure there are others. (EDIT: Richard Seymour)

I really can't blame Matt for getting as much as he can right now. I think that the guaranteed money's all worked out right now. I think the deal is the playing time escalators. How many of the total offensive snaps last season did Josh McCown play? I think that Leinart knows that for the next two years, the Cards could easily have co-starters, with Warner playing two-thirds of the games and him playing the other third. If that's the case, I think he wants to be paid like a starting QB. That's just my feeling on the holdup right now.