Cardinals Head Coaching Candidates 2023

[Chopper0080]

Also, why is it surprising that there are potential HCs who are not enamored with a QB who is an outlier in size, personality, is going through ACL rehab, and comes with a large contract? The NFL is such a group think league that I would be shocked if there were not some people who wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

 

[lobo]

Kafka is Kliff without the good looks and dancing meme.

Being Patrick Mahomes QB coach is like being a Nanny for a Chinese kid. You just sit around filing your nails while they do all the work.

That’s a freaking hysterical analogy and it’s probably pretty close to true

Beat me to the punch..had exactly the same comments to the word and then erased it! I added A+ for funny.

 

[Chopper0080]

I want a HC who sees what I see:

An extremely talented young QB who hasn't been coached in the right way. Any coach worth his salt will view him this way. A coach who doubts that, doubts themselves.

Disagree with this. Kyler is short. His best trait is his running. He has been injured the past two seasons. Has a rep for not putting in extra work. Has a rep for not being a great leader. He is no longer on a rookie contract and is 26. There are plenty of reasons to pass on the HC job if Kyler is who you are tied to along with a first time GM and an overly involved owner.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Disagree with this. Kyler is short. His best trait is his running. He has been injured the past two seasons. Has a rep for not putting in extra work. Has a rep for not being a great leader. He is no longer on a rookie contract and is 26. There are plenty of reasons to pass on the HC job if Kyler is who you are tied to along with a first time GM and an overly involved owner.

His arm is pretty fantastic too. A real leader would believe they can fix him. I've taken on a number of troubled Soldiers and "fixed" them to a degree or influenced them to be significantly better.

 

[Chopper0080]

His arm is pretty fantastic too. A real leader would believe they can fix him. I've taken on a number of troubled Soldiers and "fixed" them to a degree or influenced them to be significantly better.

Again, disagree. A real arrogant leader might. For a lot of these guys, their first HC job is their only HC if they fail. If I am an HC, I am extremely hesitant tying my HC career to Kyler Murray and his contract and his injury.

I mean, how good was his arm last year? In his career he has never thrown for over 4k (edited, mispoke and thank you) yards. Does a player with a great arm not do that? He shrinks in the biggest moments (to date)...is that what you are looking for?

It has already been discussed that the NFL is not a teaching league. How much time do you want to have to spend with your QB when you are having to do all of these other duties? And has Kyler given any indication that he will do it on his own?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

his injury.

I'm much more concerned about his head than his ACL.

 

[BritCard]

Disagree with this. Kyler is short. His best trait is his running. He has been injured the past two seasons. Has a rep for not putting in extra work. Has a rep for not being a great leader. He is no longer on a rookie contract and is 26. There are plenty of reasons to pass on the HC job if Kyler is who you are tied to along with a first time GM and an overly involved owner.

His arm is pretty fantastic too. A real leader would believe they can fix him. I've taken on a number of troubled Soldiers and "fixed" them to a degree or influenced them to be significantly better.

Both perspectives have merit.

The problem is, going for a HC job isn't like being a Gunnery Sergeant or First Lieutenent. If you can't fix the person THEY get canned, if you can't fix Kyler YOU get canned.

There are only so many HC jobs and so many 2nd chances if you fail. I can see why someone might say "Why blow my shot on this outside bet? I'd rather be able to pick a rookie or sign an FA".

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Recognize that the writer is Tony Pauline who has a lot of connections in the NFL.

Then he should know better.

 

[Chopper0080]

Then he should know better.

Or we should recognize that this isn't some message board guy reporting something.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Reading the article, it sounds like fan speak, regarding Murray. He says ‘people’…in the other points below, he gives names or at least positions, like ‘scouts say’, etc.

Dude - do you not understand this? Nobody is going to attach their name to the criticism, but to act like it's not happening bc nobody will put their name to it is ludicrous.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm much more concerned about his head than his ACL.

Both have merit but he is (likely) not going to be able to do any physical reps when the new offense and scheme is installed which will push back his assimilation of it further.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Dude - do you not understand this? Nobody is going to attach their name to the criticism, but to act like it's not happening bc nobody will put their name to it is ludicrous.

I didn't ask for a name. Did you actually read all of my comments on this?

 

[Chopper0080]

I didn't ask for a name. Did you actually read all of my comments on this?

fair but just because you don't like how it is written doesn't make it untrue.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I didn't ask for a name. Did you actually read all of my comments on this?

"Proves my point...He says 'people'. It's all conjecture and rumor, not based on facts or actual 'sources'."

What would you consider facts or actual sources? You seem to be intimating that this is all conjecture and rumor - why?

 

[kerouac9]

Both have merit but he is (likely) not going to be able to do any physical reps when the new offense and scheme is installed which will push back his assimilation of it further.

I dunno. Wouldn’t be surprised if he could take reps in training camp but not cleared for contact.

It’s way more important for him to be there for the meetings and actual installs, including minicamps. One could imagine him saying he’s gonna stay in Dallas (at home) and focus on his rehab and I’ll see you when I’m clear to play. That’s the darkest timeline.

I didn't ask for a name. Did you actually read all of my comments on this?

So you’re fine with it if he says “a number of NFL front office types” instead of “people”? Weird thing to get hung up on.

 

[SoonerLou]

Also, why is it surprising that there are potential HCs who are not enamored with a QB who is an outlier in size, personality, is going through ACL rehab, and comes with a large contract? The NFL is such a group think league that I would be shocked if there were not some people who wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

There are always going to be coaches who arent quick to rush to Kyler. Same way not every coach wanted to coach Russell Wilson.

People can run with the toxic stuff. Some of it is just preferring taller/sturdier QBs.

So if a DeMeco Ryans is like yea that isnt my kinda QB. Ok that it is what it is. I think the problem is Pauline making it feel like everyone felt that way. When reality Reich didnt wait on Bidwill, Payton got the Broncos to pay the price and most of the other candidates are still very much in play.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

fair but just because you don't like how it is written doesn't make it untrue.

...and just because you do like how it's written (or agree with it) doesn't make it true. If he adds substance, one way or the other, it's more meaningful. Otherwise, it's just rumor.

Heck, look at Payton and Denver. Albright came out and reported that Sean's interview went so poorly, because Sean butted heads with one of the owners, that Denver had moved off of him. Everyone jumped on that...even me. Sean comes out and sends one tweet refuting it and the global narrative was he was the leak and now he's doing damage control. For days he was being bashed and now he's the coach. Was he 1st choice, 2nd, 3rd, 10th???? We will never really know, but poor reporting started a wildfire of negativity. I'm trying to get to the point ignoring the false flags and rumors and paying more attention to real reporting...but it's hard...lol

 

[kerouac9]

There are always going to be coaches who arent quick to rush to Kyler. Same way not every coach wanted to coach Russell Wilson.

People can run with the toxic stuff. Some of it is just preferring taller/sturdier QBs.

So if a DeMeco Ryans is like yea that isnt my kinda QB. Ok that it is what it is. I think the problem is Pauline making it feel like everyone felt that way. When reality Reich didnt wait on Bidwiill, Payton got the Broncos to pay the price and most of the other candidates are still very much in play.

This is a pretty broad reading of “people are saying.”

He didn’t even say “you’re hearing it more and more.”

 

[football karma]

the Kyler thing is a real wild card

the Cards are committed to him for the next two seasons at a minimum.

For the HC candidate, his outcomes are:

1. Kyler works. Hurray.
2. Kyler doesn't work, and he is out of a job after two years.
3. Kyler doesn't work, he still has a job, but no QB and a slug of dead cap money going forward.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

"Proves my point...He says 'people'. It's all conjecture and rumor, not based on facts or actual 'sources'."

What would you consider facts or actual sources? You seem to be intimating that this is all conjecture and rumor - why?

If you check my other comments I gave specific examples. Below the Murray stuff, he actually talks about speaking to scouts, names players, etc...making those types of comments more meaningful. "People" is so ambiguous...what people? People in the stands? The waterboy? Scouts with a team? Other coaches?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Anyway, I'm moving on. It's a nothing burger to me, but obviously means a ton to others.

 

[SoonerLou]

This is a pretty broad reading of “people are saying.”

He didn’t even say “you’re hearing it more and more.”

Fair.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

No Wolf today. Might have to tune in.

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[Krangodnzr]

Again, disagree. A real arrogant leader might. For a lot of these guys, their first HC job is their only HC if they fail. If I am an HC, I am extremely hesitant tying my HC career to Kyler Murray and his contract and his injury.

I mean, how good was his arm last year? In his career he has never thrown for over 3k yards. Does a player with a great arm not do that? He shrinks in the biggest moments (to date)...is that what you are looking for?

It has already been discussed that the NFL is not a teaching league. How much time do you want to have to spend with your QB when you are having to do all of these other duties? And has Kyler given any indication that he will do it on his own?

The amount of yards thrown has nothing to do with arm strength. Pretty disingenuous argument there.

It's not about teaching, it's about scheming.

 

[Chopper0080]

I dunno. Wouldn’t be surprised if he could take reps in training camp but not cleared for contact.

It’s way more important for him to be there for the meetings and actual installs, including minicamps. One could imagine him saying he’s gonna stay in Dallas (at home) and focus on his rehab and I’ll see you when I’m clear to play. That’s the darkest timeline.

So you’re fine with it if he says “a number of NFL front office types” instead of “people”? Weird thing to get hung up on.

Admittedly, I am pretty much done with Kyler. Not all his fault as some of it is the organizations inability to get Kyler the experienced help he needs.

This means that I really don't trust Kyler's ability to learn through visual reps and I don't believe he will push his rehab to get back until he is 100% cleared by an independent Dr. Kyler is going to prioritize Kyler (IMO) and not going to put himself at risk trying to rush.

I don't believe he is a great communicator so I believe that will slow down his learning prior to getting significant reps.

I believe that we are likely to bring in a more traditional NFL offense which is also going to be a big hurdle for Kyler as he has never run one. Kyler is going to have to learn sight adjustments, and learning NFL play verbiage which he has never learned. He will likely be expected to set protections. He will likely be under C significantly which means he will have to learn to read pre-snap, take his drop with his back to the defense, and then confirm the defense once he hits his drop depth. He is also going to have to learn drop depths which he hasn't needed to do significantly.

Maybe I am being overdramatic, but if you believe Kliff's offense was overly simple, then the learning curve that Kyler is going to have will be huge and he won't get many reps prior to the season to work at it.