Cardinals Head Coaching Candidates 2023

[Garthshort]

Keep in mind that there are only 32 HC jobs. And about 4-5 are open every year. To wait for a better job opportunity or not. That is the question. My question is how many guys who decided to wait are still waiting?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Both perspectives have merit.

The problem is, going for a HC job isn't like being a Gunnery Sergeant or First Lieutenent. If you can't fix the person THEY get canned, if you can't fix Kyler YOU get canned.

There are only so many HC jobs and so many 2nd chances if you fail. I can see why someone might say "Why blow my shot on this outside bet? I'd rather be able to pick a rookie or sign an FA".

You can win with Kyler Murray, we've seen it first hand. The Giants just went to the playoffs with Daniel Jones. It's doable.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Kinda funny...lol

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[Chopper0080]

The amount of yards thrown has nothing to do with arm strength. Pretty disingenuous argument there.

It's not about teaching, it's about scheming.

Ok. But if arm strength mattered that much, Jamarcus Russell wouldn't have fell on his face and Brady probably wouldn't be the greatest QB ever.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Admittedly, I am pretty much done with Kyler. Not all his fault as some of it is the organizations inability to get Kyler the experienced help he needs.

This means that I really don't trust Kyler's ability to learn through visual reps and I don't believe he will push his rehab to get back until he is 100% cleared by an independent Dr. Kyler is going to prioritize Kyler (IMO) and not going to put himself at risk trying to rush.

I don't believe he is a great communicator so I believe that will slow down his learning prior to getting significant reps.

I believe that we are likely to bring in a more traditional NFL offense which is also going to be a big hurdle for Kyler as he has never run one. Kyler is going to have to learn sight adjustments, and learning NFL play verbiage which he has never learned. He will likely be expected to set protections. He will likely be under C significantly which means he will have to learn to read pre-snap, take his drop with his back to the defense, and then confirm the defense once he hits his drop depth. He is also going to have to learn drop depths which he hasn't needed to do significantly.

Maybe I am being overdramatic, but if you believe Kliff's offense was overly simple, then the learning curve that Kyler is going to have will be huge and he won't get many reps prior to the season to work at it.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. A smart coach will bring him along slowly, and try to improve the run game and defense first. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow when you have a QB on a massive contract to take this approach, but the Cardinals are virtually stuck with him for a few more years.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ok. But if arm strength mattered that much, Jamarcus Russell wouldn't have fell on his face and Brady probably wouldn't be the greatest QB ever.

It's only one aspect of QB play, but Murray can sling it. We've all seen it.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

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[BritCard]

You can win with Kyler Murray, we've seen it first hand. The Giants just went to the playoffs with Daniel Jones. It's doable.

You can with most QB's in spurts. The question is can he do it consistently.

I've said it before but my biggest concern is Kyler having to learn a pro style offense with traditional verbiage and get 200+ plays down. Then, once he's done all that, apply all the checks at the LOS that are expected of a QB. Then once he's done all that, learn to accurately apply those brand new plays while using the options to adjust for what the defense is doing.

He's basically having to learn Chinese in 6 months after never speaking a word of anything but English.

And do all that while rehabbing from a serious knee injury.

I've posted this before, it's a great video and Cam is very good in it. I just struggle to see Kyler handling this for the first time at 26.

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[Chopper0080]

You can win with Kyler Murray, we've seen it first hand. The Giants just went to the playoffs with Daniel Jones. It's doable.

His career record of 25-31-1 says he isn't a consistent winning QB at the NFL level, and his one season with a winning record is the outlier at this point in time. Jay Cutler had two seasons with a winning record so the same argument could have been made for him but ultimately he was who he was. Talented but underachieving.

At this point, I take Daniel Jones over Kyler Murray.

 

[SoonerLou]

Again, disagree. A real arrogant leader might. For a lot of these guys, their first HC job is their only HC if they fail. If I am an HC, I am extremely hesitant tying my HC career to Kyler Murray and his contract and his injury.

I mean, how good was his arm last year? In his career he has never thrown for over 3k yards. Does a player with a great arm not do that? He shrinks in the biggest moments (to date)...is that what you are looking for?

It has already been discussed that the NFL is not a teaching league. How much time do you want to have to spend with your QB when you are having to do all of these other duties? And has Kyler given any indication that he will do it on his own?

I think you mean 4K yards.

And he would have done so in 2020 if not being knocked out of most of the last game of season. He missed 3 games in 2021.

He averaged 248 YPG in 2020
He averaged 270 YPG in 2021

He only had 2 starting caliber wrs (at the same time) for 1 game in 2022.

The amount of yards thrown has nothing to do with arm strength. Pretty disingenuous argument there.

It's not about teaching, it's about scheming.

Surprising from Chop. Keim level of advanced scouting.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. A smart coach will bring him along slowly, and try to improve the run game and defense first. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow when you have a QB on a massive contract to take this approach, but the Cardinals are virtually stuck with him for a few more years.

The salary cap and 1st time GM make this an very difficult path to take. Hiding a player who makes 15-20% of your cap is near impossible. Very little margin for error.

 

[Krangodnzr]

His career record of 25-31-1 says he isn't a consistent winning QB at the NFL level, and his one season with a winning record is the outlier at this point in time. Jay Cutler had two seasons with a winning record so the same argument could have been made for him but ultimately he was who he was. Talented but underachieving.

At this point, I take Daniel Jones over Kyler Murray.

Now I think you're just jaded.

Daniel Jones career record 12-25.

It's bad, sure, but not nearly as bad as you are making this out to be.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Again, disagree. A real arrogant leader might. For a lot of these guys, their first HC job is their only HC if they fail. If I am an HC, I am extremely hesitant tying my HC career to Kyler Murray and his contract and his injury.

I mean, how good was his arm last year? In his career he has never thrown for over 3k yards. Does a player with a great arm not do that? He shrinks in the biggest moments (to date)...is that what you are looking for?

It has already been discussed that the NFL is not a teaching league. How much time do you want to have to spend with your QB when you are having to do all of these other duties? And has Kyler given any indication that he will do it on his own?

there is a report now that is saying the Cards being hamstrung to the Murray deal is whats making this coaching hire so difficult. Its probably why Demeco said no thanks on the interview.

Giving that entitled bum that big contract may have been one of the dumbest moves in the history of sports.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

Now I think you're just jaded.

Daniel Jones career record 12-25.

It's bad, sure, but not nearly as bad as you are making this out to be.

Daniel Jones would run laps around Murray.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The salary cap and 1st time GM make this an very difficult path to take. Hiding a player who makes 15-20% of your cap is near impossible. Very little margin for error.

I'm not saying hide.

I'm saying take a page out of the Pete Carroll playbook. Bring Kyler along slowly. Play good defense and run the ball.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think you mean 4K yards.

And he would have done so in 2020 if not being knocked out of most of the last game of season. He missed 3 games in 2021.

He averaged 248 YPG in 2020
He averaged 270 YPG in 2021

He only had 2 starting caliber wrs (at the same time) for 1 game in 2022.


Surprising from Chop. Keim level of advanced scouting.

Yes, 4k yards and thank you.

To this point, Kyler's NFL career is a lot of coulda, woulda, and shoulda. I am over it. For me, after 4 years, he is what he is until he shows something different.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You can with most QB's in spurts. The question is can he do it consistently.

I've said it before but my biggest concern is Kyler having to learn a pro style offense with traditional verbiage and get 200+ plays down. Then, once he's done all that, apply all the checks at the LOS that are expected of a QB. Then once he's done all that, learn to accurately apply those brand new plays while using the options to adjust for what the defense is doing.

He's basically having to learn Chinese in 6 months after never speaking a word of anything but English.

And do all that while rehabbing from a serious knee injury.

I've posted this before, it's a great video and Cam is very good in it. I just struggle to see Kyler handling this for the first time at 26.

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If Cam Newton can do this, Kyler Murray can.

 

[SoonerLou]

You can with most QB's in spurts. The question is can he do it consistently.

I've said it before but my biggest concern is Kyler having to learn a pro style offense with traditional verbiage and get 200+ plays down. Then, once he's done all that, apply all the checks at the LOS that are expected of a QB. Then once he's done all that, learn to accurately apply those brand new plays while using the options to adjust for what the defense is doing.

He's basically having to learn Chinese in 6 months after never speaking a word of anything but English.

And do all that while rehabbing from a serious knee injury.

I've posted this before, it's a great video and Cam is very good in it. I just struggle to see Kyler handling this for the first time at 26.

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There's a flipside to this argument.

Is it possible that Kyler, being in the air raid or a variation of it, since 7th grade sort of peaked or was burnt out by it? Maybe being in that system so long made him a know it all and it backfired. A new system forces him to adapt and also find the uptapped potential.

Cam Newton struggled with play calling/Auburn's system on Gruden camp. He was able to figure out the pro play calling by the next year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yes, 4k yards and thank you.

To this point, Kyler's NFL career is a lot of coulda, woulda, and shoulda. I am over it. For me, after 4 years, he is what he is until he shows something different.

And you're not wrong. Win with old school football principles. Fix the OL and the running game.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm saying take a page out of the Pete Carroll playbook. Bring Kyler along slowly. Play good defense and run the ball.

You can't pay a guy top QB money to be a game manager. That scenario only works when the rest of the talent is transcendent, and the QB is on a rookie contract.

 

[BritCard]

Now I think you're just jaded.

Daniel Jones career record 12-25.

It's bad, sure, but not nearly as bad as you are making this out to be.

12-25 was before this year.

It's now 22- 32 - 1

Kyler is 25 - 31 - 1

 

[Chopper0080]

Now I think you're just jaded.

Daniel Jones career record 12-25.

It's bad, sure, but not nearly as bad as you are making this out to be.

If I am trying to hide my QB, Jones does that better. He is more wiling to risk his body, has a frame to do it, and his teammates back him despite his struggles. You think Kyler has had bad weapons, look at what Jones has had to work with in New York the past two years.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You can't pay a guy top QB money to be a game manager. That scenario only works when the rest of the talent is transcendent, and the QB is on a rookie contract.

Is there a choice? The flip side is pay him over $90 million to go away.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If I am trying to hide my QB, Jones does that better. He is more wiling to risk his body, has a frame to do it, and his teammates back him despite his struggles. You think Kyler has had bad weapons, look at what Jones has had to work with in New York the past two years.

Daniel Jones doesn't do anything better.

Not a damn statistic in his career backs up anything you are saying.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Is there a choice? The flip side is pay him over $90 million to go away.

Painted ourselves in a corner, we did. Best scenario is fixing Kyler...anything else is a long term proposition.