Cardinals @ Lions postgame thread

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Simmons is best used as a TE matchup weapon in coverage. I look at his comps (imo) Kam Chancelor and Thomas Davis and think that using him as a base S (or base over LB) and then a nickel LB is easily the best use for his ability. He can 100% lock up TEs. He has shown that and vs premium TEs this is how you use him.

Against the run, you have to have him away from the ball so he can run and chase vs read and react OR have him on an EDGE where he sets the edge or pursues backside. That is why I think he is a base S or base over OLB. Personally I prefer the S position in base because he is away from the ball in the run game so he can see and attack but also gives you a size matchup vs TEs in the passing game.

As a nickel I agree that you don't want him matching up vs many slot WRs. I like a zone nickel LB who can spy vs mobile QBs, man vs backs out of the backfield or blitz. I think those things make the best use of his athleticism and maximizes his versatility.

Also, keep things simple and keep him playing fast.

I didn’t want to go here, but it’s where I’ve arrived. I think you may be right.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You’re never far behind lol I respect it.

Was just pointing out a fact.

 

[scandalous_b]

Top 10 pick who consistently underperforms, looks lost, and isn't impactful?

Budda is the guy that can do no wrong around here - another pathetic game with multiple missed tackles and no impact on the back end.

I get that he's a little guy that tries hard, but that doesn't hide that fact that he's been a ghost most of this season.

Thomspon is the far more impactful player at the safety position this year.

I don’t disagree with the recent frustrations over Simmons - but I actually thought he was pretty damn good yesterday.

People act like the dropped interception was a bad thing - but I can’t think of too many other players making a play on the ball. He also had at least one nice run stop and forced a fumble. Thought he was pretty impactful for the most part.

The reality is that the scheme is a little bit broken right now. You can blame Simmons & the LBs all you want - but the guys currently playing in front of them (including the edge defenders) are some of the worst in football at defending the run. Until they find a way to make up for that, nobody is really going to look good.

 

[DVontel]

First, he owned up.

Second, you’re right, you called it. No hindsight. But I think you’re off when saying “obvious choice” when virtually all publications were blessing us for the Simmons pick.

And he’s not even finished season 2. I think you’re premature in closing that book.

Premature or not, it’s pretty damn disheartening to see a top 10 pick just remain stagnant two seasons in. Especially at one of the less-impactful positions in football. Add that he was drafted over a player that filled a bigger need all the while playing a very impactful position, & that player has been playing damn near All-Pro(with the exception of last night weirdly), yea, patience begins to wear thin.

 

[scandalous_b]

I am always amazed when posters try to discredit other posters by labeling their foresight as hindsight. They were literally right from the get go. At this point everyone should just say, “yup, you were right” because they were.

It’s never that black and white. I explained why already…

But that's the point...

Yeah taking Wirfs would have been great. But acting like Wirfs was the only guy deserving of the pick is wrong too. Taking Wills, Becton, or Jefferson would have turned out fine too. Hell - I haven't given up on Isaiah Simmons yet.

I wouldn't say that people that wanted Simmons, Wills, Becton, Jefferson, etc. are wrong (yet). The people that are wrong are the ones that said Wirfs sucks and should never be the pick.

 

[unseenaz]

If you’re gonna be the type of person to say 3 years later “we shoulda drafted X, here look I posed that 3 years ago” then you gotta also be the person to bear your misses too. We are all fans. EZ to sit back and say what you want when none of it matters

 

[MrYeahBut]

Hicks being dragged for at least a few yards on every tackle he makes or chasing behind someone like a granny who's had her purse stolen.

I finally found something to laugh at amid all the misery of yesterday's loss... a granny whose purse was stolen...lol

Thanks for that

 

[scandalous_b]

Damn. Still dodging. Had to refer straight to hyperbole. Sheesh.


Ain’t no damn hindsight. That was the obvious choice then & there.

Well, he better hurry the hell up because the pages are getting turned mighty quickly.

Arguing that Tristan Wirfs was the “obvious choice then & there” is honestly just as wrong. That means that you thought that Jedrick Wills, Mekhi Becton, and Justin Jefferson were completely inferior talents to Wirfs - which is absolutely not true.

 

[DVontel]

Arguing that Tristan Wirfs was the “obvious choice then & there” is honestly just as wrong. That means that you thought that Jedrick Wills, Mekhi Becton, and Justin Jefferson were completely inferior talents to Wirfs - which is absolutely not true.

I thought Becton & Jefferson were inferior talents to Wirfs. Been right on Becton. Justin has been great & better than the WR most wanted in Lamb. I preferred Wirfs slightly over Wills due to better athleticism, & Wirfs has a very good lead on him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Premature or not, it’s pretty damn disheartening to see a top 10 pick just remain stagnant two seasons in. Especially at one of the less-impactful positions in football. Add that he was drafted over a player that filled a bigger need all the while playing a very impactful position, & that player has been playing damn near All-Pro(with the exception of last night weirdly), yea, patience begins to wear thin.

I get it. I own an authentic wrong number Simmons Jersey and I wish we’d drafted wirfs at this point. But we have Simmons. Have to hope the light comes in for him or we get a DC that figures out how to maximize his talents.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If you’re gonna be the type of person to say 3 years later “we shoulda drafted X, here look I posed that 3 years ago” then you gotta also be the person to bear your misses too. We are all fans. EZ to sit back and say what you want when none of it matters

Eh the posters that are crowing about wirfs are the ones who usually own their mistakes too.

 

[scandalous_b]

I thought Becton & Jefferson were inferior talents to Wirfs. Been right on Becton. Justin has been great & better than the WR most wanted in Lamb. I preferred Wirfs slightly over Wills due to better athleticism, & Wirfs has a very good lead on him.

How were you right on Becton? He was awesome last year as a rookie LT on a horrible team and in a horrible situation. This year he got hurt.

I think it’s a little early to be taking a victory lap on that one.

 

[DVontel]

How were you right on Becton? He was awesome last year as a rookie LT on a horrible team and in a horrible situation. This year he got hurt.

I think it’s a little early to be taking a victory lap on that one.

The best ability is availability. There were also concerns about Becton’s long-term durability due to his weight/health &…..we see why.

 

[scandalous_b]

I will say - there is something ironic & absolutely hilarious about posters taking victory laps over a player who got his ass absolutely kicked last night on national television lol

 

[scandalous_b]

The best ability is availability. There were also concerns about Becton’s long-term durability due to his weight/health &…..we see why.

He injured his knee after getting rolled up on. That doesn’t exactly have much to do with his weight/health. More unlucky than anything.

 

[Arz101]

I know it is just a game. But this loss to one win team feels something awful that is lingering for a second day. Anyone else in the same boat or you guys are moving onto Cincinnati?

 

[BritCard]

I think Simmons is best used as a TE matchup weapon in coverage. I look at his comps (imo) Kam Chancelor and Thomas Davis and think that using him as a base S (or base over LB) and then a nickel LB is easily the best use for his ability. He can 100% lock up TEs. He has shown that and vs premium TEs this is how you use him.

Against the run, you have to have him away from the ball so he can run and chase vs read and react OR have him on an EDGE where he sets the edge or pursues backside. That is why I think he is a base S or base over OLB. Personally I prefer the S position in base because he is away from the ball in the run game so he can see and attack but also gives you a size matchup vs TEs in the passing game.

As a nickel I agree that you don't want him matching up vs many slot WRs. I like a zone nickel LB who can spy vs mobile QBs, man vs backs out of the backfield or blitz. I think those things make the best use of his athleticism and maximizes his versatility.

Also, keep things simple and keep him playing fast.

I seem to remember someone started a thread about how Simmons could be an elite strong safety and wouldn't make a good linebacker when we drafted him. With many of these exact same points. I can't remember who...

 

[BritCard]

How were you right on Becton? He was awesome last year as a rookie LT on a horrible team and in a horrible situation. This year he got hurt.

I think it’s a little early to be taking a victory lap on that one.

When he was healthy he wasn't as good as Wirfs. Therefor he was right.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I know it's risky but has Vance done a CB blitz this year at anytime because I think Marco Wilson could really destroy a QB if the situation presents itself... guess I am looking for creativity, instead of mere posturing before the snap of his constant LB shuffle (I do not want to mention his DE covering a WR asinine 'how do you like me now') which has Simmons totally indecisive or actually sending a LB up the middle which even got Hicks a sack instead of dropping back and waiting for someone to catch a pass before they act