Cardinals @ Lions postgame thread

[FB94]

On several occasions I saw 300lb defensive lineman dropping off in pass coverage, or our two slowest LBs trying to cover a WR. Is Joseph trying to be too cute with his calls? Why cant we just keep it somewhat simple and just turn them loose

 

[Chopper0080]

I know exactly what I am talking about. I watched him alot. He was still the (at best) 3rd rated OT in the draft and possibly the 4th depending on the draft room. He has exceeded his projection and I am comfortable saying that.

I wanted Thomas or Wills. Krang wanted Becton bad. It's a crap shoot and you know it.

With that being said, IS was the clear choice IMO over any of em. That's what makes it a crap shoot.

Wirfs had the most starting experience and had an amazing athletic profile. He came from a program known to produce NFL OL where I believe he was one of the first freshman ever to start. He was "downgraded" because he played RT, he was only 6'5, and people thought he was too "athletic" to play OT needing to get kicked inside to OG. All of these were stupid criticisms and he was a finalist for best OL in college which he lost to Penei Sewell. However much you thought you watched Wirfs, I watched more. Dude was a beast in college.

 

[Covert Rain]

Pathetic on almost every level. No team is scared of the Cards come post season.

Not one!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

What has two thumbs and won't be watching sports TV for the next six days?

 

[Chopper0080]

But he wasn’t. He was a RT and that’s probably 3rd on the list of importance on the offensive line behind LT and C.

He was considered raw with a lot of upside coming out. He was far from dominate and had a horrible bowl game.

He was the 4th offensive lineman taken in that draft. Hindsight is 20/20 but to act like he was blue chip can’t miss isn’t what was the reality at the time.

lol..no. He was #1 OL on many people's boards, mine included. The RT BS was just that. The " he is too athletic" was BS. The he was raw (because he was young) was BS. His bad bowl game is hilarious. He was fine against USC.

So all of the critiques that people like me were saying were BS before the draft are now proven to be BS after the draft. HE was the best OL in the draft before the draft and is the best OL after the draft. If you got caught up in the NFL draft group think that is on you. If you watched it and didn't need your OTs to be 6'7 (DJ) he was the best.

 

[reebokalone2001]

Watching Saints and Bucs taking turns stopping each other, I can't help but want their run defense (either one will work), and Siants' pass rush for us if one can dream.

 

[reebokalone2001]

lol..no. He was #1 OL on many people's boards, mine included. The RT BS was just that. The " he is too athletic" was BS. The he was raw (because he was young) was BS. His bad bowl game is hilarious. He was fine against USC.

So all of the critiques that people like me were saying were BS before the draft are now proven to be BS after the draft. HE was the best OL in the draft before the draft and is the best OL after the draft. If you got caught up in the NFL draft group think that is on you. If you watched it and didn't need your OTs to be 6'7 (DJ) he was the best.

I watched the 2019 Holiday Bowl to take a look at Epenesa. Other than a few times he lost his focus during the game, I believe Wirfs flat out dominated USC's Dline that game.

 

[Finito]

lol..no. He was #1 OL on many people's boards, mine included. The RT BS was just that. The " he is too athletic" was BS. The he was raw (because he was young) was BS. His bad bowl game is hilarious. He was fine against USC.

So all of the critiques that people like me were saying were BS before the draft are now proven to be BS after the draft. HE was the best OL in the draft before the draft and is the best OL after the draft. If you got caught up in the NFL draft group think that is on you. If you watched it and didn't need your OTs to be 6'7 (DJ) he was the best.

Yes he was amazing that’s why he was the 4th offensive lineman taken in the draft. Your argument has become Na Uh I’m right and everyone is wrong.

He was actually considered kind of an underachiever. A how’s that guy so big and athletic and not a legend. Thought of as finesse guy. The number 1 prospect at a position shouldn’t be “fine” in his bowl game he should be dominate and he was far from it. One thing I really took away from that game was his bad balance he spent a lot of time on the floor

I watch plenty of college football and plenty of Wirfs. YOU thought he was amazing that’s great.

Like I said hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Finito]

I watched the 2019 Holiday Bowl to take a look at Epenesa. Other than a few times he lost his focus during the game, I believe Wirfs flat out dominated USC's Dline that game.

A top offensive line prospect who “loses focus” on plays is not dominate.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Kyler barely has a .500 record in 3 years. All three years Kyler faded in the second half of the season. Are we sure about paying him 150 million guaranteed?

Today he said these loses are not same as the issues they had last year. I have no idea what Kyler means anymore.

His pressers are canned word salad.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

CJ said his account got hacked.

“Hacked”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BS.

Someone just HAPPENED to hack... Chandler Jones’ Twitter account minutes after a bad tweet went up about him that he responded to like a classless piece of crap?

Okay.

Yeah, sorry not buying it.

 

[scandalous_b]

lol..no. He was #1 OL on many people's boards, mine included. The RT BS was just that. The " he is too athletic" was BS. The he was raw (because he was young) was BS. His bad bowl game is hilarious. He was fine against USC.

So all of the critiques that people like me were saying were BS before the draft are now proven to be BS after the draft. HE was the best OL in the draft before the draft and is the best OL after the draft. If you got caught up in the NFL draft group think that is on you. If you watched it and didn't need your OTs to be 6'7 (DJ) he was the best.

We all need to settle down.

Everyone acknowledged at the time that that class of OTs was historically great. Most people had Wirfs, Becton, Wills & Thomas pretty interchangeable in the top tier - but it was definitely a shock that Andrew Thomas went first of the group.

The knock on Wirfs at the time wasn't that he was a RT. Jedrick Wills was also a RT for Alabama. Becton only played one season at LT. Only Andrew Thomas had a great track record of playing LT.

I would say there were more concerns with how Wirfs would hold up in pass protection on an island against NFL pass rushers. The scheme at Iowa typically "protected" him with a TE. And while Wirfs was extremely dominant for the most part, when he did struggle, it was against more physically gifted rushers. I remember him having a few problems against Michigan & Penn State in his final season at Iowa.

So with all that said - I think both sides of this argument are wrong...

Wirfs was absolutely considered dominant in college. He lived up to all the hype in his final season at Iowa. Not really even sure how anyone could disagree with that.

At the same time, this narrative of "before draft BS" is extremely exaggerated. The dude was taken #13 overall - and the Bucs traded up to get him. The pick was pretty universally praised at the time too. And it's not like the other OTs taken ahead of him are terrible and don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Wirfs. All four guys have had moments - and its undeniable that Wirfs walked into by far the best situation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We all need to settle down.

Everyone acknowledged at the time that that class of OTs was historically great. Most people had Wirfs, Becton, Wills & Thomas pretty interchangeable in the top tier - but it was definitely a shock that Andrew Thomas went first of the group.

The knock on Wirfs at the time wasn't that he was a RT. Jedrick Wills was also a RT for Alabama. Becton only played one season at LT. Only Andrew Thomas had a great track record of playing LT.

I would say there were more concerns with how Wirfs would hold up in pass protection on an island against NFL pass rushers. The scheme at Iowa typically "protected" him with a TE. And while Wirfs was extremely dominant for the most part, when he did struggle, it was against more physically gifted rushers. I remember him having a few problems against Michigan & Penn State in his final season at Iowa.

So with all that said - I think both sides of this argument are wrong...

Wirfs was absolutely considered dominant in college. He lived up to all the hype in his final season at Iowa. Not really even sure how anyone could disagree with that.

At the same time, this narrative of "before draft BS" is extremely exaggerated. The dude was taken #13 overall - and the Bucs traded up to get him. The pick was pretty universally praised at the time too. And it's not like the other OTs taken ahead of him are terrible and don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Wirfs. All four guys have had moments - and its undeniable that Wirfs walked into by far the best situation.

Not by the people who were screaming for the pick at the time. And there was a vocal group here. I admittedly wasn’t even one of them, but to call those who did exaggerating doesn’t wash.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not by the people who were screaming for the pick at the time. And there was a vocal group here. I admittedly wasn’t even one of them, but to call those who did exaggerating doesn’t wash.

Yeah I hate when posters try to downplay someone else’s foresight. Happens all the time. There was definitely a contingent of posters who were RIGHT in trumpeting the merits of taking wirfs (like cheese, I was not one).

 

[scandalous_b]

Not by the people who were screaming for the pick at the time. And there was a vocal group here. I admittedly wasn’t even one of them, but to call those who did exaggerating doesn’t wash.

I'm not talking about randos on message boards. I 100% believe that there were a select few people on here saying that he sucks. You're always going to have that.

I am talking about consensus opinion. Nobody with any kind of reputation was out bashing Tristan Wirfs and saying he couldn't succeed in the NFL. You're always gonna have idiots.

Take this guy for example...

Yes he was amazing that’s why he was the 4th offensive lineman taken in the draft. Your argument has become Na Uh I’m right and everyone is wrong.

He was actually considered kind of an underachiever. A how’s that guy so big and athletic and not a legend. Thought of as finesse guy. The number 1 prospect at a position shouldn’t be “fine” in his bowl game he should be dominate and he was far from it. One thing I really took away from that game was his bad balance he spent a lot of time on the floor

I watch plenty of college football and plenty of Wirfs. YOU thought he was amazing that’s great.

Like I said hindsight is 20/20.

1. NOBODY considered Wirfs an underachiever. That just wasn't a thing. He was a three-year starter and an All-American at Iowa.
2. Tristan Wirfs is absolutely a legend at Iowa. I don't even know what that means. He was the first true freshman to ever start on the OL for Kirk Ferentz.
3. NOBODY considered Wirfs a finesse guy. He was more regarded for his run blocking & strength than anything else. If anything, people were concerned about the finesse side of his game.
4. Tristan Wirfs was not "fine" in his bowl game. It was one of his best performances of that season. If you don't believe me - he graded out with 88.9 according to PFF in that game. No idea what you are talking about.

 

[scandalous_b]

Yeah I hate when posters try to downplay someone else’s foresight. Happens all the time. There was definitely a contingent of posters who were RIGHT in trumpeting the merits of taking wirfs (like cheese, I was not one).

I think it's just as stupid, even in hindsight, to act like Tristan Wirfs HAD to be the pick.

Simmons has had his struggles, and maybe you wouldn't take him again - but Jedrick Wills & Mekhi Becton aren't exactly losers. Taking either of those guys would have been more than fine.

Hell - I would argue that Wirfs wasn't even the best player on the board. Justin Jefferson is probably a more valuable asset than Wirfs right now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think it's just as stupid, even in hindsight, to act like Tristan Wirfs HAD to be the pick.

Simmons has had his struggles, and maybe you wouldn't take him again - but Jedrick Wills & Mekhi Becton aren't exactly losers. Taking either of those guys would have been more than fine.

Hell - I would argue that Wirfs wasn't even the best player on the board. Justin Jefferson is probably a more valuable asset than Wirfs right now.

Here’s the stupid part... it’s not hindsight when AT THE TIME POSTERS WERE CALLING FOR WIRFS.

THats called foresight. I didn’t have it but many posters here did so to ignore that is stupid.

 

[Vacard]

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[scandalous_b]

Here’s the stupid part... it’s not hindsight when AT THE TIME POSTERS WERE CALLING FOR WIRFS.

THats called foresight. I didn’t have it but many posters here did so to ignore that is stupid.

But that's the point...

Yeah taking Wirfs would have been great. But acting like Wirfs was the only guy deserving of the pick is wrong too. Taking Wills, Becton, or Jefferson would have turned out fine too. Hell - I haven't given up on Isaiah Simmons yet.

I wouldn't say that people that wanted Simmons, Wills, Becton, Jefferson, etc. are wrong (yet). The people that are wrong are the ones that said Wirfs sucks and should never be the pick.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But that's the point...

Yeah taking Wirfs would have been great. But acting like Wirfs was the only guy deserving of the pick is wrong too. Taking Wills, Becton, or Jefferson would have turned out fine too. Hell - I haven't given up on Isaiah Simmons yet.

I wouldn't say that people that wanted Simmons, Wills, Becton, Jefferson, etc. are wrong (yet). The people that are wrong are the ones that said Wirfs sucks and should never be the pick.

That’s fair... ish.

 

[BritCard]

We need to talk about how bad Byron Murphy has been the last 2 games.

Absolutely owned by the Rams and the Lions. After a good start to the season the PFF recognized also his overall grade is now down to 66.

 

[Minski]

We need to talk about how bad Byron Murphy has been the last 2 games.

Absolutely owned by the Rams and the Lions. After a good start to the season the PFF recognized also his overall grade is now down to 66.

To be honest the whole team has been tripe the last 2 games, especially on D. Seems like VJ loves soft zones and hates run D, so doesnt actually stop anything. I'm so sick of Hicks being dragged for at least a few yards on every tackle he makes or chasing behind someone like a granny who's had her purse stolen.

 

[Arz101]

To be honest the whole team has been tripe the last 2 games, especially on D. Seems like VJ loves soft zones and hates run D, so doesnt actually stop anything. I'm so sick of Hicks being dragged for at least a few yards on every tackle he makes or chasing behind someone like a granny who's had her purse stolen.

Cardinals have systemic issues on both offense and defense and why they are a bottom 10 team right now despite the record.

 

[Arz101]

Despite good success this year, For three years Cardinals

1. Had Poor run defense.
2. Were Incompetent to finish seasons strong.

No idea why