Cardinals @ Lions postgame thread

[DVontel]

lol..no. He was #1 OL on many people's boards, mine included. The RT BS was just that. The " he is too athletic" was BS. The he was raw (because he was young) was BS. His bad bowl game is hilarious. He was fine against USC.

So all of the critiques that people like me were saying were BS before the draft are now proven to be BS after the draft. HE was the best OL in the draft before the draft and is the best OL after the draft. If you got caught up in the NFL draft group think that is on you. If you watched it and didn't need your OTs to be 6'7 (DJ) he was the best.

I’m also actually curious as to what scheme Simmons would actually flourish in.

What scheme is going to make him not overrun the run gaps? Disengaging from OLine? Cover anything that is not a vertical route?

I’m not even defending Vance because he’s awful, but what scheme would Simmons actually live up to the 8th overall pick? Because he hasn’t been anywhere close.

 

[Stout]

I’m also actually curious as to what scheme Simmons would actually flourish in.

What scheme is going to make him not overrun the run gaps? Disengaging from OLine? Cover anything that is not a vertical route?

I’m not even defending Vance because he’s awful, but what scheme would Simmons actually live up to the 8th overall pick? Because he hasn’t been anywhere close.

You're biased on Simmons and it clearly shows. Questioning if he would ever play well and if he would ever fit a scheme is over the top. Until and unless VJ stops tinkering with him and making him play five different positions, we're not going to get the best out of him and we'll not know how good he can be.

 

[Stout]

I hate the fact that I'm starting to be right about certain things from this past offseason, because that does not bode well for the Cards.

 

[Arz101]

What happened to Randole Moore ?

 

[DVontel]

You're biased on Simmons and it clearly shows. Questioning if he would ever play well and if he would ever fit a scheme is over the top. Until and unless VJ stops tinkering with him and making him play five different positions, we're not going to get the best out of him and we'll not know how good he can be.

None of his flaws that were pointed out aren’t scheme specific.

What scheme is going to make him get off blocks?

What scheme is going to make him not overrun the wrong gaps 24/7?

What scheme is going make him have much better fluidity out of nowhere to guard crossing & slant routes?

Oh, none of them. It’s player-specific. It’s not like a guy is a 3-4 OLB that’s wrongly playing in a 4-3 DE or zone CB playing in man-coverage scheme.

What does he do well? Blitz probably? Blanket opponents on go routes? That’s a major problem for the 8th overall pick.


You want to call out people to eat crow? That’s great. Fine, but you need to eat yours as well.

Until he shows otherwise, I will continue to be biased on Simmons.

 

[Stout]

None of his flaws that were pointed out aren’t scheme specific.

What scheme is going to make him get off blocks?

What scheme is going to make him not overrun the wrong gaps 24/7?

What scheme is going make him have much better fluidity out of nowhere to guard crossing & slant routes?

Oh, none of them. It’s player-specific. It’s not like a guy is a 3-4 OLB that’s wrongly playing in a 4-3 DE or zone CB playing in man-coverage scheme.

What does he do well? Blitz probably? Blanket opponents on go routes? That’s a major problem for the 8th overall pick.


You want to call out people to eat crow? That’s great. Fine, but you need to eat yours as well.

Until he shows otherwise, I will continue to be biased on Simmons.

Glad to see the hypocrisy is recognized. Because you shut up pretty totally when the defense and Simmons were playing well. But, hey, admitting you have a problem is the first step. The rest? You're deluded, but it's because he's your blind spot. I understand that and, to a degree, can commiserate.

 

[DVontel]

Glad to see the hypocrisy is recognized. Because you shut up pretty totally when the defense and Simmons were playing well. But, hey, admitting you have a problem is the first step. The rest? You're deluded, but it's because he's your blind spot. I understand that and, to a degree, can commiserate.

Well, it’s nice to see you’ll continue to be a huge hypocrite.

Attacking others & demanding them to eat their crow when they’re wrong, but won’t hold up on your end of the bargain. Fine job.

 

[DVontel]

I also loved how you answered none of the questions because you know it’s undeniable, lol.

 

[Stout]

I also loved how you answered none of the questions because you know it’s undeniable, lol.

Right. He's trash and there's no system that'll fit him and he never does anything right. Sooo logical

Well, it’s nice to see you’ll continue to be a huge hypocrite.

Attacking others & demanding them to eat their crow when they’re wrong, but won’t hold up on your end of the bargain. Fine job.

I demanded others to eat crow in a "Richard Cranium" move to point out the utter and total hypocrisy of the koolaiders on this board rubbing darksider noses in it week in and week out and then getting all outraged over one--count 'em, one--crow-eating thread going the opposite direction. Worked like a charm.

As far as your take? Maybe we should have taken Wirfs--in hindsight--but the book is certainly not closed on Simmons.

 

[DVontel]

Right. He's trash and there's no system that'll fit him and he never does anything right. Sooo logical


I demanded others to eat crow in a "Richard Cranium" move to point out the utter and total hypocrisy of the koolaiders on this board rubbing darksider noses in it week in and week out and then getting all outraged over one--count 'em, one--crow-eating thread going the opposite direction. Worked like a charm.

As far as your take? Maybe we should have taken Wirfs--in hindsight--but the book is certainly not closed on Simmons.

Damn. Still dodging. Had to refer straight to hyperbole. Sheesh.


Ain’t no damn hindsight. That was the obvious choice then & there.

Well, he better hurry the hell up because the pages are getting turned mighty quickly.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm not talking about randos on message boards. I 100% believe that there were a select few people on here saying that he sucks. You're always going to have that.

I am talking about consensus opinion. Nobody with any kind of reputation was out bashing Tristan Wirfs and saying he couldn't succeed in the NFL. You're always gonna have idiots.

Take this guy for example...



1. NOBODY considered Wirfs an underachiever. That just wasn't a thing. He was a three-year starter and an All-American at Iowa.
2. Tristan Wirfs is absolutely a legend at Iowa. I don't even know what that means. He was the first true freshman to ever start on the OL for Kirk Ferentz.
3. NOBODY considered Wirfs a finesse guy. He was more regarded for his run blocking & strength than anything else. If anything, people were concerned about the finesse side of his game.
4. Tristan Wirfs was not "fine" in his bowl game. It was one of his best performances of that season. If you don't believe me - he graded out with 88.9 according to PFF in that game. No idea what you are talking about.

Maybe hearing this from multiple people will stick.

 

[Finito]

Maybe hearing this from multiple people will stick.

Or like hearing Wirfs was far from being a lock as the number 1 lineman in draft will stick with you? Or did you just pick and choose what you wanted to take from it.

Wirfs is/was a really good player but he was not John Ogden coming out.

 

[Finito]

I got so many texts yesterday. I’m telling my boys the season is over and all of them were like

Oh come on your 10-4 your being dramatic

Nope you don’t understand. Nobody understands except cardinal fans

 

[Cheesebeef]

I got so many texts yesterday. I’m telling my boys the season is over and all of them were like

Oh come on your 10-4 your being dramatic

Nope you don’t understand. Nobody understands except cardinal fans

My raider fan friend understands perfectly.

 

[Chopper0080]

I’m also actually curious as to what scheme Simmons would actually flourish in.

What scheme is going to make him not overrun the run gaps? Disengaging from OLine? Cover anything that is not a vertical route?

I’m not even defending Vance because he’s awful, but what scheme would Simmons actually live up to the 8th overall pick? Because he hasn’t been anywhere close.

I think Simmons is best used as a TE matchup weapon in coverage. I look at his comps (imo) Kam Chancelor and Thomas Davis and think that using him as a base S (or base over LB) and then a nickel LB is easily the best use for his ability. He can 100% lock up TEs. He has shown that and vs premium TEs this is how you use him.

Against the run, you have to have him away from the ball so he can run and chase vs read and react OR have him on an EDGE where he sets the edge or pursues backside. That is why I think he is a base S or base over OLB. Personally I prefer the S position in base because he is away from the ball in the run game so he can see and attack but also gives you a size matchup vs TEs in the passing game.

As a nickel I agree that you don't want him matching up vs many slot WRs. I like a zone nickel LB who can spy vs mobile QBs, man vs backs out of the backfield or blitz. I think those things make the best use of his athleticism and maximizes his versatility.

Also, keep things simple and keep him playing fast.

 

[scandalous_b]

None of his flaws that were pointed out aren’t scheme specific.

What scheme is going to make him get off blocks?

What scheme is going to make him not overrun the wrong gaps 24/7?

What scheme is going make him have much better fluidity out of nowhere to guard crossing & slant routes?

Oh, none of them. It’s player-specific. It’s not like a guy is a 3-4 OLB that’s wrongly playing in a 4-3 DE or zone CB playing in man-coverage scheme.

What does he do well? Blitz probably? Blanket opponents on go routes? That’s a major problem for the 8th overall pick.


You want to call out people to eat crow? That’s great. Fine, but you need to eat yours as well.

Until he shows otherwise, I will continue to be biased on Simmons.

Why is everyone going after Simmons to begin with? He was probably the Cardinals’ best player on the field yesterday.

I get the frustration in general, but I just don’t feel like this is the week to go after him.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Why is everyone going after Simmons to begin with? He was probably the Cardinals’ best player on the field yesterday.

I get the frustration in general, but I just don’t feel like this is the week to go after him.

Top 10 pick who consistently underperforms, looks lost, and isn't impactful?

Budda is the guy that can do no wrong around here - another pathetic game with multiple missed tackles and no impact on the back end.

I get that he's a little guy that tries hard, but that doesn't hide that fact that he's been a ghost most of this season.

Thomspon is the far more impactful player at the safety position this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Here’s the stupid part... it’s not hindsight when AT THE TIME POSTERS WERE CALLING FOR WIRFS.

THats called foresight. I didn’t have it but many posters here did so to ignore that is stupid.

I am always amazed when posters try to discredit other posters by labeling their foresight as hindsight. They were literally right from the get go. At this point everyone should just say, “yup, you were right” because they were.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We need to talk about how bad Byron Murphy has been the last 2 games.

Absolutely owned by the Rams and the Lions. After a good start to the season the PFF recognized also his overall grade is now down to 66.

Our entire defensive backfield has been bad the last two games. I can’t think of a single pass defensed by the secondary in the lions game. Doesn’t help that the pass rush has been neutered. I wonder if something has been exposed with our corners. Maybe those concerned at the beginning of the year regarding our corners were on to something . . .

 

[DVontel]

Our entire defensive backfield has been bad the last two games. I can’t think of a single pass defensed by the secondary in the lions game. Doesn’t help that the pass rush has been neutered. I wonder if something has been exposed with our corners. Maybe those concerned at the beginning of the year regarding our corners were on to something . . .

They realized they can’t cover for 15 seconds because Chandler, Golden, Kennard, & others are either too busy playing patty-cake with the OL or weirdly covering a WR downfield.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, it’s nice to see you’ll continue to be a huge hypocrite.

Attacking others & demanding them to eat their crow when they’re wrong, but won’t hold up on your end of the bargain. Fine job.

Stout ate crow all season

 

[Stout]

Damn. Still dodging. Had to refer straight to hyperbole. Sheesh.


Ain’t no damn hindsight. That was the obvious choice then & there.

Well, he better hurry the hell up because the pages are getting turned mighty quickly.

TO YOU. He was the obvious choice TO YOU. Consensus on draft day is that we got a steal. I'll give you kudos, if I never have, for calling from the get go that you wanted Wirfs. Pretending it was just the obvs pick pre-draft for everybody is, of course, incorrect. As someone pointed out, he wasn't the next gen OT prospect coming out of college. But, fair is fair: you called wanting him and he has turned into a good player.

 

[DVontel]

Stout ate crow all season

You’re never far behind lol I respect it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Damn. Still dodging. Had to refer straight to hyperbole. Sheesh.


Ain’t no damn hindsight. That was the obvious choice then & there.

Well, he better hurry the hell up because the pages are getting turned mighty quickly.

First, he owned up.

Second, you’re right, you called it. No hindsight. But I think you’re off when saying “obvious choice” when virtually all publications were blessing us for the Simmons pick.

And he’s not even finished season 2. I think you’re premature in closing that book.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I got so many texts yesterday. I’m telling my boys the season is over and all of them were like

Oh come on your 10-4 your being dramatic

Nope you don’t understand. Nobody understands except cardinal fans

This