the_future23
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Ya ya ya, another Steeler. But dude is a straight burner. He has speed and would compliment Fitz perfectly. A deep ball threat that can outrun anyone.
Cardinals need to make a push for Mike Wallace
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kerouac9
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Why have a draft at all? If he's given the first-round tender, we'd have to pay him $25 million guaranteed (maybe more) plus give up the first round pick.
Someone might be dumb enough to sign him to an offer sheet (Tampa? Cleveland?), but they'd have to be creative to create a deal that Pittsburgh wouldn't/couldn't match.
Someone might be dumb enough to sign him to an offer sheet (Tampa? Cleveland?), but they'd have to be creative to create a deal that Pittsburgh wouldn't/couldn't match.
I don't think he's for us, but I wonder why you think a team would have to be "dumb" to try. He's certainly worth a first rounder and a ton of money, IMO.
Folster
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I think we'd be better served setting our sights on a receiver like Pierre Garcon.
Since our front office seems incapable of focusing on more than one thing at a time, I'd rather not go after a WR at all this offseason.
Short of that, if I had my druthers, I'd take a good long look at Manningham.
kerouac9
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A first-rounder and a ton of money? Really? Under the new CBA, where someone like Blackmon is going to get paid like $8 million over 4 years? I think you're overestimating Mike Wallace.
Wallace is a very good player in the Steelers' offense, but it's in the Steelers' offense with Ben Roethlisberger delivering him the ball. I've gone over before how difficult it is to predict how a receivers' skills are going to translate across franchises.
Randy Moss went from Minnesota to Oakland for a first-rounder and a ton of money, and was a huge bust for them. Do you think that Wallace is of similar skill to Randy Moss?
"Similar?" Yes. Same raw-talent caibre? No. Of course there's risk--there's always risk. But Moss to Oakland isn't quite a fair comparison. Moss has always been an all-world talent with all-world attitude. We all know Moss dogged it pretty spectacularly in Oakland. Maybe you see a drop off in Wallace's production outside of Pittsburgh (or maybe you don't), but I think the chances of him falling off the map like Moss did are pretty remote.
Despite how much of a sure-thing players might seem coming out of college, you don't know if they'll take the next step to becoming a star in the pros. You pay a premium for that when getting e veteran NFL star in his prime.
So, yes, if I were a team that needed a no. 1 WR I'd pay the first and a big-time contract and assume the risk that he might not be as good.
JMHO
kerouac9
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Pariah, can you think of a single instance of a high-profile WR changing teams and it working out? I'm not talking about Wes Welker leaving for a second- and fourth-round pick, I mean a pro bowl caliber WR changing teams for a big contract and it working out.
Two teams tried to do it with Joey Galloway and both walked away with regrets.
When the best-case scenario is Mushin Muhammad with the Bears, I hope that some team does it, and it's another team in the NFC West.
To be honest with you, I can't think of that many instances when a team lets a star WR (in his prime and without issues) walk.
Boldin left AZ and hasn't fallen off a cliff.
Marshall left Denver, and for all his mental issues still caught, what?, 90 balls this year? With garbage at QB, too.
I think there's a pretty small sample to look at when it comes to "star" WRs changing teams, and that speaks to just how hard a player like Wallace is to come by.
Again, JMHO. I understand why someone wouldn't want to make the investment. But I also think that a first-round pick is a crap-shoot and seeing a body of work in the NFL helps mitigate the risks.
Well said. K9 is just off his rocker when it comes to Wide Receivers. It's hilarious how many times we've heard since the SB how many QBs are struggling because they don't have any weapons.
What I would ask though is what team has ever picked up a restricted free agent for a first round pick and a huge salary? I don't think its ever happened.
kerouac9
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Um... check the stats. Boldin hasn't been anything like the player he was in Arizona since he moved to B-more. But I'll give you a quick list off the top of my head, and you can tell me if you want to join this club:
Joey Galloway from Carolina to Seattle and then Dallas and finally Tampa Bay
Plaxico Burress from Pittsburgh to New York Giants
Santonio Holmes from Pittsburgh to New York Jets
Mushin Muhammad from Carolina to Chicago
Deion Branch from New England to Seattle
T.J. Houshmanzadeh from Cincy to Seattle
Jerry Rice from San Francisco to Oakland and then Seattle
Javon Walker from Green Bay to Denver and then Oakland (I think--it may have been the other way around)
Terrell Owens from San Francisco to Philly and then Dallas
David Boston from Arizona to San Diego
Sydney Rice from Minnesota to Seattle
Brandon Marshall from Denver to Miami
Az-Zahir Hakim from St. Louis to... Detroit, I think?
Antwaan Randle-El from Pittsburgh to Washington
Terry Glenn from New England to Dallas
Derrick Mason from Tennessee to Baltimore
Those are all the high- to medium-profile WR movements that I can remember from the past decade or so.
1200 yards and 14 TDs and first team all-pro in Philly in 2004. 3,578 yards and 38 TDs in 3 seasons in Dallas. In his 30's. Yeah that sucks.
1200 yards and 7 TDs and pro bowl for Oakland in 2002. At age 40! That sucks too. Rice was 42 when he played for Seattle.
Javon Walker had one good season in Green Bay. That's medium to high profile? He still had over 1000 yards for only the 2nd time in his career in Denver with Jake Plummer as QB.
Galloway never played for Carolina. But he had over 3300 yards and 23 TDs his first 3 seasons in Tampa in his 30s. That sucks.
Those are 4 of the first 5 guys I checked. I also checked David Boston. That was a stupid move by SD. Because Boston had already lost his mind while still in Arizona.
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kerouac9
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That's right; Galloway started his career in Seattle. Dallas gave up two first round picks for him on the Franchise tag. Scored 11 TDs for them in four seasons for the favor.
I didn't include only moves that supported my case. I put all the ones that I could remember together.
And, yes, Javon Walker was a massively high profile move when it was made. Dude gained nearly 1400 yards receiving and scored 12 TDs his first season as a starter(!!!!!). Held out the next year and tore up his knee the first day back.
So if you can locate two unmitigated success stories (and those guys had much longer track records than Wallace does when they left their original teams).
Of course, that first season with Philly was far below his previous four-year average in receptions and yards, but don't post anything that might dispute your firmly held opinion that receivers are movable parts.
I didn't include only moves that supported my case. I put all the ones that I could remember together.
And, yes, Javon Walker was a massively high profile move when it was made. Dude gained nearly 1400 yards receiving and scored 12 TDs his first season as a starter(!!!!!). Held out the next year and tore up his knee the first day back.
So if you can locate two unmitigated success stories (and those guys had much longer track records than Wallace does when they left their original teams).
Of course, that first season with Philly was far below his previous four-year average in receptions and yards, but don't post anything that might dispute your firmly held opinion that receivers are movable parts.
In 4 years in Green Bay Walker had one season with over 1000 yards. That's not a top tier high profile NFL caliber WR. That's Steve Breaston.
I don't care what Dallas gave up for Galloway. You are claiming few if any WRs moves teams and is successful. Making stupid moves for free agents is just that. Stupid it isn't position specific.
As for how many players I found I only looked at 5 and 4 of them were successful with other teams.
I don't know what the heck you are talking about here: "Of course that first season in Philly was far below his previous..." If its Owens, Terrell had more yards and more TDs than his previous year in SF and was 31 years old and made first team All-Pro.
In addition to what DJ pointed out--that's not a list of abject failures from top to bottom--you specifically asked for a "pro bowl caliber WR." That's not what that list represents; if you're adding Az Hakim into the mix there's no reason not to include Wes Welker.
Again, I've acknowledged the risk. I've also stated that it is my opinion that Wallace is worth his price tag for teams that need a true number one. Maybe he won't be the top-5 guy he is now, but much like Baltimore and Boldin, even if his numbers slip a little, he's likely to be a guy who is important to that offense's success.
Again, I've acknowledged the risk. I've also stated that it is my opinion that Wallace is worth his price tag for teams that need a true number one. Maybe he won't be the top-5 guy he is now, but much like Baltimore and Boldin, even if his numbers slip a little, he's likely to be a guy who is important to that offense's success.
JeffGollin
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Wallace could help us a lot, but I'm not sure "needing" any single FA out of the entire pool of NFL FA's is very realistic. (Too many variables)
Early
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I think they need to give all the money to get Peyton Manning. Keep the defense. Build the offense through the draft to suit what Manning likes to do. Outside wideout, offensive line, a good receiving RB.
We have good inside WR's in Doucet and Roberts and solid TE's. Defense just needs to have more time, they don't need extra talent this year, offense is more a need.
We have good inside WR's in Doucet and Roberts and solid TE's. Defense just needs to have more time, they don't need extra talent this year, offense is more a need.
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Well, we don't have Doucet at this point, and given that most of what I see in the FA market is not appreciably better than Early I'd be inclined to re-sign him.
This may come as a strange suggestion, but, I would also sign Braylon Edwards to a "show me" contract.
While I agree with your general premise, the "D" does need a few things to keep clicking and can't simply be ignored. CC's Tag or long-term deal is a cost that must be borne; retaining Marshall is an issue of consequence, and we are short at least one backup OLB.
Dr. Jones
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Moss going from the Raiders to the Patriots?
kerouac9
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It should also be said in fairness that I hated Andre Johnson coming out of Miami, LOVED Charles Rogers coming out of Michigan State, and wanted the Cards to draft Roy Williams if they had to take a receiver instead of Fitz.
I was right there with you.
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Would love it but the Steelers wont ever let him go. We have a better shot at Brees.
It's more likely that a team with a low first round pick with some cap space and a WR need could make him an offer. The Niners or the Patriots may be able to sign him to a contract that the Steelers may not have the ability to match.
