Cardinals on the Clock?

[Ronin]

I covet a great offensive line to protect our QB and open holes for DJ. A lousy OLine ruins good teams by not giving the QB enough time to throw or establish a running game. Too many 3-and-outs and our defense gets worn out in the 4th quarter and gives up big plays.

+1

 

[daves]

you realize those kicking woes didn't get better last season, right?

The kicking game was bad last season... but you must be forgetting how much unfathomably worse they were in 2016.

Punting: 2017: Andy Lee, 47.3 yd average, 0 blocked
2016: Quigley / Butler / Wile, 41.9 yd average, 2 blocked

Kicking: 2017: Dawson, 8/8 FG inside 30 yds, 20/27 from 30-49, 4/5 50+, 80% overall, 23/26 XP, 0 blocked
2016: Catanzaro, 6/7 FG inside 30, 12/15 from 30-49, 3/6 50+, 75% overall, 43/47 XP, 1 blocked

Returns both for and against were about equally abysmal both years.

...dbs

 

[MadCardDisease]

you realize those kicking woes didn't get better last season, right?

Addition by subtraction.

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Amos Jones asking for directions to Cleveland

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Name your 5 better...

Patriots
Packers
Eagles
Steelers
Panthers

And that’s not my top three, that’s just the first 5 I thought of that were better.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What is silly about it? I never said it mattered as far as wins & losses who your 3rd QB is. As far as 1 thru 3 we are better suited than most. What is hard to understand about that? Haven't we been on our #3 in the past? If it matters zero why comment?

Sam Bradford is a loser lol. We've had loser QB's in the past. Sam isn't a loser. Wager as to where he ends up league wise as QB this year? We can go by stats or wins losses. Or your famed website you always refer to for absolute say on how a player performed?

Sams not a loser but he hasn’t proven to be a winner and there’s the injury tag. That alone, coupled with a failed Glennon and an unproven Rosen makes our QB room slanted towards the back end of the league.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There's only 2 on this list that has a better 3 than we do. Philly & Green Bay & Green Bay is questionable. Like I said. We are in the top 5. You can't go by starting QB alone.

The 2nd and 3rd don’t matter if the 1st is mikes better than our 1st.

It’s like you’re saying:

Your 1st >>>> our 1st
Our 2nd > your 2nd
Our 3rd > your 3rd

We win!!!

That’s nonsense considering 2nd and 3rd likely don’t see the field and if they do for any team for any length of time their team is likely sunk.

That’s like saying, “we have a better offensive line even though only our center is better because all of our backup linemen are better than your’s!” That’s ridiculous.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sure, let's ignore the kicking woes of that season that had nothing to do with "those guys."

The team has won 7 & 8 games the last two seasons. You can point to all the different excuses you want, but that’s who we are right now.

 

[kerouac9]

Denver? I think they are the worst in the league - Case Keenum is not a legit starter. Paxton Lynch is garbage. I think Elway is certifiable for not having drafted a QB at 5.

Bradford is not the 25th best starter - he is top 15 easily the way he has played in his last 20 starts.

I dunno. I guess in the last quarter of his career starts we agree he's somewhere in the middle third of NFL quarterbacks. That's pretty bad considering he was the #1 overall picks and his last 20 games started late in 2015.

Wanna guess what his record has been in those last 20 games? I also forgot that in his "good" season, Bradford and the Vikes started 5-0 and failed to make the playoffs despite having a Top 5 defense.

 

[cardncubfan]

you realize those kicking woes didn't get better last season, right?

Yes they did. We made the ones where the game was on the line vs missing them the year prior.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The kicking game was bad last season... but you must be forgetting how much unfathomably worse they were in 2016.

Punting: 2017: Andy Lee, 47.3 yd average, 0 blocked
2016: Quigley / Butler / Wile, 41.9 yd average, 2 blocked

Kicking: 2017: Dawson, 8/8 FG inside 30 yds, 20/27 from 30-49, 4/5 50+, 80% overall, 23/26 XP, 0 blocked
2016: Catanzaro, 6/7 FG inside 30, 12/15 from 30-49, 3/6 50+, 75% overall, 43/47 XP, 1 blocked

Returns both for and against were about equally abysmal both years.

...dbs

The punting game improved. The kicking game looks fairly similar. Dawson missed 8 FGs and Cat missed 7 FGs. Dawson had higher volume, but also had worse percentage on PATs.

 

[cardncubfan]

The 2nd and 3rd don’t matter if the 1st is mikes better than our 1st.

It’s like you’re saying:

Your 1st >>>> our 1st
Our 2nd > your 2nd
Our 3rd > your 3rd

We win!!!

That’s nonsense considering 2nd and 3rd likely don’t see the field and if they do for any team for any length of time their team is likely sunk.

That’s like saying, “we have a better offensive line even though only our center is better because all of our backup linemen are better than your’s!” That’s ridiculous.

I think you have a lower opinion of Sam than I do. Bradford isn't that far off from Rodgers or Brady so it's not >>>> it's more like half of >.

 

[daves]

The punting game improved. The kicking game looks fairly similar. Dawson missed 8 FGs and Cat missed 7 FGs. Dawson had higher volume, but also had worse percentage on PATs.

Don't forget the blocked kick. And though you'd surely prefer not to... remember the game vs. the Seahawks.

The kicking and punting games singlehandedly cost games in 2016; not so much in 2017.

Come to think of it, i'm not really sure why we're discussing it.

...dbs

 

[kerouac9]

I think you have a lower opinion of Sam than I do. Bradford isn't that far off from Rodgers or Brady so it's not >>>> it's more like half of >.

LOL.

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[daves]

You have to be good with those guys, first. The Cards went 7-8-1 with both those guys healthy.

You've posted this multiple times, and i can't discern your point.

If you're trying to claim that the Cardinals would be no better with both of those guys healthy than without, then it's self-evident that you're wrong.

The 2016 team went 7-8-1 with a +56 point differential, 48 offensive TDs, the #6 offense and #14 defense in the NFL. Uncharacteristically for an Arians team, they underperformed their pythagorean win expectation by 2 games.

The 2017 team went 8-8 with a -66 point differential, 27 offensive TDs, and the #25 offense and #19 defense.

A lot has changed since 2017, but it's fair to say that adding a healthy above-average QB and a healthy David Johnson to the 2017 team would have make them much, much better. Which, i think, is the point you've trying to refute by quoting the 7-8-1 record from 2016.

...dbs

 

[cardncubfan]

LOL.

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Are you on the right or the left?

 

[kerouac9]

You've posted this a couple of times, and i can't discern your point.

If you're trying to claim that the Cardinals would be no better with both of those guys healthy than without, then it's self-evident that you're wrong.

The 2016 team went 7-8-1 with a +56 point differential, 48 offensive TDs, the #6 offense and #14 defense in the NFL. Uncharacteristically for an Arians team, they underperformed their pythagorean win expectation by 2 games.

The 2017 team went 8-8 with a -66 point differential, 27 offensive TDs, and the #25 offense and #19 defense.

A lot has changed since 2017, but it's fair to say that adding a healthy above-average QB and a healthy David Johnson to the 2017 team would have make them much, much better. Which, i think, is the point you've trying to refute by quoting the 7-8-1 record from 2016.

...dbs

Maybe, but I don't know if it's 11 TDs better with David Johnson. In 2016 we also had the third-easiest schedule in the NFL by DVOA. Our point differential was almost entirely based on the +33 we had against a bad Tampa team and the +31 we had against an awful LARM team.

In 2017, it's not like we were hitting on all cylinders against the Lions before DJ went down — he was probably going to regress toward the mean some in any circumstances. And I'm pretty sure Carson Palmer played most of that 33-0 loss to LARM in London.

Heading into this season, we got a defensive head coach, a quarterback who is the definition of overpaid mediocrity, and an offensive coordinator who is on his third job in as many seasons. Last year he was fired after like 10 games, and the Broncos offense got better!

I'm not convinced that this team is David Johnson away from being good. Even with David Johnson, they were still at the whim of a kicker's leg in too many games.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The team has won 7 & 8 games the last two seasons. You can point to all the different excuses you want, but that’s who we are right now.

The kicking game and how it directly contributed to losses in 2016 and the 14/15 players on IR or missing significant time in 2017 were not "excuses" but demonstrable facts that contributed to our record.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Heading into this season, we got a defensive head coach, a quarterback who is the definition of overpaid mediocrity, and an offensive coordinator who is on his third job in as many seasons. Last year he was fired after like 10 games, and the Broncos offense got better!

These are my concerns also.

Everyone keeps touting McCoy, but he really needs to show something and be creative. Not putting much stock in his system until I see it work.

 

[Phrazbit]

Eh... I doubt many teams would take our QB situation over theirs. Bradford is a B or C QB when he's healthy... and he's rarely healthy, Rosen is a mystery.

However, IMO we have too many playmakers on both sides of the ball to contend for the top pick. The top pick will be some team with like 1-3 wins, I suspect we'll get 5-8... barring Bradford having an extra gear AND staying healthy or Rosen being one of the best rookies ever.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think you have a lower opinion of Sam than I do. Bradford isn't that far off from Rodgers or Brady so it's not >>>> it's more like half of >.

Wow... I would say Bradford is... at best, a poor man's Alex Smith. Which isn't to say he is bad, but he is WORLDS behind Rogers and Brady.

When he isn't injured, he is a Charlie Checkdown, game manager. You don't want to play from behind with Sam Bradford as your QB. He's the guy who throws for a 5 yard out route on 3rd and 8.

 

[Garthshort]

It all has to do with the QB position. Most 'experts' are expecting the Arizona QB's to struggle this year, whether because of injuries or inexperience. As a fan, I disagree, but see where they are coming from.

 

[overseascardfan]

It all has to do with the QB position. Most 'experts' are expecting the Arizona QB's to struggle this year, whether because of injuries or inexperience. As a fan, I disagree, but see where they are coming from.

Everything depends on how well the OL holds up. If they can’t block then offense is not going to win games.

 

[Cardiac]

Everything depends on how well the OL holds up. If they can’t block then offense is not going to win games.

I agree that the Oline has to be good so that Bradford can possibly stay healthy. There is a reason that Bradford remains a commodity that still has value in many NFL front offices. Well another reason besides many teams are QB starved. Bradford has talent and the biggest knock on him is injuries but he has flashed quality QB play.

So if the Oline keeps him upright and IF Bradford stays healthy then I can see this team winning 10 games. Brutal schedule at this point but we all know that some teams that were good to great last year will fall flat this year because it happens every single year.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Maybe, but I don't know if it's 11 TDs better with David Johnson. In 2016 we also had the third-easiest schedule in the NFL by DVOA. Our point differential was almost entirely based on the +33 we had against a bad Tampa team and the +31 we had against an awful LARM team.

In 2017, it's not like we were hitting on all cylinders against the Lions before DJ went down — he was probably going to regress toward the mean some in any circumstances. And I'm pretty sure Carson Palmer played most of that 33-0 loss to LARM in London.

Heading into this season, we got a defensive head coach, a quarterback who is the definition of overpaid mediocrity, and an offensive coordinator who is on his third job in as many seasons. Last year he was fired after like 10 games, and the Broncos offense got better!

I'm not convinced that this team is David Johnson away from being good. Even with David Johnson, they were still at the whim of a kicker's leg in too many games.

I agree that there are a lot of unknowns heading into this season. The biggest questions being a new head coach and coaching staff. Followed by a new starting QB. Then I would say moving to a 4-3 defense from a 3-4. Finally I would say the health of the OL.

So for me the biggest question is how quickly Wilks can learn on the job and be a solid HC. The reason I was so high on BA when the Cards made him their HC was the proven track record he had with the Colts when he filled in as the HC for them. Wilks is going to be learning on the fly as a HC. There will be some growing pains there early in the season.

Then there is the factor of a new OC working with a totally new QB room. It takes time for QBs to learn a new play book and become familiar with their WRs from a timing standpoint. I think Bradford and Rosen are very intelligent and will be able to pick up McCoy's offense fairly quickly. However the question remains on how long it will take them to get on the same page as their Receivers.

Next there is the big change on Defense. Aside from losing the Honeybadger not much has changed from a defensive roster standpoint. The good news is that transitioning to a 4-3 isn't as difficult as going to a 3-4. For some this transition may actually be a positive as the 4-3 players have less to remember (see Nkemdiche). For others it may be more difficult (LBs and learning/adapting to their new roles).

Finally there is the OL and the question of health. 4 of the OL starters missed significant time last year with injury. If the injury bug hits the OL again this year it could be a long painful season for the Offense.

Still even with all of these questions I see the Cardinals as a 6-10 team as they work through the transition of a new coaching staff and the team rebuilding and getting younger.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Still even with all of these questions I see the Cardinals as a 6-10 to 8-8 team as the work through the transition of a new coaching staff and team rebuilding and getting younger.

Agree