Cardinals Ownership blamed for QB Mess

[Cbus cardsfan]

I call Bull ____ on this. The ownership and FO recognied Q's value to this team immediately, and gave him a contract extension VERY quickly. It was not the FO or Ownership that drove Q out of here, but Whiz's demands that he wait his turn to get FItz money. Anybody who spoke out against Whiz's preachings on this matter were overlooked until the last minute, and by that time, the feelings were so bad between these players and the organization, that offering equal money to what others offered to them was fruitless by our FO. THis includes Dansby and Rolle, (though Rolle was of no real consequence). Remember, Whiz was not that big a Warner fan either, because he started Leinart ahead of him for two different seasons before giving in to Warner.

It is true that Whiz did not initially like either Leinart or Warner. He only settled in on Wrner when it became clear that it gave him the best opportunity to win between the two. Warner produced records of 9-7 with three playoff wins and a SB loss in '08 He produced a 10-7 record with one playoff win in and a loss to NO in '09. Warner saw that Whiz had no intent to keep either Gandy or Wells in '10, and realizing that he would have a poorer O-line than last year, AND a weaker Defense than last year, opted for retirement, a very prudent move by him.

Both Rolle and Dansby turned down the same money that they signed for in NY and Miami, when our FO offered it to them. THis waiting for the payday thing has been a persistent thing with Whiz since his arrival, just as has the paying dues thing been for any youngsters who hoped to, (or even deserved to), break into the starting lineup. It seems to be a personal rule, and not one dictated by the FO or by ownership.

I too, feel that this article is an attempt to take blame somewhat away from Whiz, but Whiz has far more to answer for than all other sources put together when this problem is truly analyzed. Had Whiz treated these players with the same loyalty he demanded of them, they might have stayed to play for us when offered the big money, instead of opting out. I suspect that they tired quickly of his public criticisms,and his attempts to chastise them publicly.

This is so wrong,i don't know where to start. Whiz didn't demand Boldin wait for Fitz money. Boldin was supposedly promised a new deal by Graves and Graves reneged and Boldin was PO'd. Whis doesn't mettle in contract negotiations. He id make a comment on the situation, when asked, but to blame Boldin leaving on Whiz is completely false. In fact, Graves traded him.He didn't leave via free agency. Dansby and Rolle offers were save face offers by Graves after the fact. Why was he willing to offer them money after the other teams had basically agreed to deals with them? To try and save face , that's why. Now Graves can think the fan base is dumb enough to think he made legit offers but the players chose to leave.
Whiz jas played rookies and moved them into prominent roles whne they were ready. DRC started from about week 8 on. Beanie was the main ball carrier the 2nd half of last season. Most rookies need adjustment time. Williams is playing more and more. What's wrong with making them earn their spot?
The article places the blame exactly where it should, on Rod Graves doorstep. Warner didn't retire because of Gandy and Wells, are you serious. If there was any chance he'd return, it probably ended when Graves traded Boldin for unknown reasons and let his best defensive player leave for nothing.
I'm not a huge Bulger fan but if you put him on this team with Boldin and Dansby the Cards are probably resting players for the playoffs this weekend.
The season ticket holders and fans should be pissed and let the FO know it. 53 straight sellouts and they cut payroll by 30 mill. I'm sure they didn't lower prices accordingly.

 

[thephoenixson28]

This is so wrong,i don't know where to start. Whiz didn't demand Boldin wait for Fitz money. Boldin was supposedly promised a new deal by Graves and Graves reneged and Boldin was PO'd. Whis doesn't mettle in contract negotiations. He id make a comment on the situation, when asked, but to blame Boldin leaving on Whiz is completely false. In fact, Graves traded him.He didn't leave via free agency. Dansby and Rolle offers were save face offers by Graves after the fact. Why was he willing to offer them money after the other teams had basically agreed to deals with them? To try and save face , that's why. Now Graves can think the fan base is dumb enough to think he made legit offers but the players chose to leave.
Whiz jas played rookies and moved them into prominent roles whne they were ready. DRC started from about week 8 on. Beanie was the main ball carrier the 2nd half of last season. Most rookies need adjustment time. Williams is playing more and more. What's wrong with making them earn their spot?
The article places the blame exactly where it should, on Rod Graves doorstep. Warner didn't retire because of Gandy and Wells, are you serious. If there was any chance he'd return, it probably ended when Graves traded Boldin for unknown reasons and let his best defensive player leave for nothing.
I'm not a huge Bulger fan but if you put him on this team with Boldin and Dansby the Cards are probably resting players for the playoffs this weekend.
The season ticket holders and fans should be pissed and let the FO know it. 53 straight sellouts and they cut payroll by 30 mill. I'm sure they didn't lower prices accordingly.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[bg7brd]

Catfish - you are completely out to lunch on this. Cbus and Seandonic summed it up nicely.

 

[NJCardFan]

As far as Leinart is concerned, it wasn't even Whiz who drafted him. The only reason he was kept around all this time IMHO was because the FO wanted him to be THE guy.

This is in part BS. Did they want Leinart to be 'the guy'? Of course. A year before a 1st round pick and a huge contract was spent on the guy so this isn't a stretch. The problem with Leinart was that Whiz wanted him to build his game around Whiz's scheme and not the other way around. Good coaches see what type of QB they have and they develop their game plan around that. Whiz wanted Leinart to be a drop back pocket passer which is not the type of QB he was. Green recognized this and game planned around the fact that Leinart was built for the West Coast offense. Quick slants and such. Watch the Bears and Viking games. I mean, the guy threw for 2,500 yards and 11 TD in 12 games his rookie year so there was some promise but the WC offense isn't Whiz's thing. I'd be willing to bet that a team built around the WC offense *cough*<Seattle>*cough* signs him and he'll be somewhat successful.

 

[TJ]

I call Bull ____ on this. The ownership and FO recognied Q's value to this team immediately, and gave him a contract extension VERY quickly. It was not the FO or Ownership that drove Q out of here, but Whiz's demands that he wait his turn to get FItz money. Anybody who spoke out against Whiz's preachings on this matter were overlooked until the last minute, and by that time, the feelings were so bad between these players and the organization, that offering equal money to what others offered to them was fruitless by our FO. THis includes Dansby and Rolle, (though Rolle was of no real consequence). Remember, Whiz was not that big a Warner fan either, because he started Leinart ahead of him for two different seasons before giving in to Warner.

Q's contract was due to circumstance. Because he was a 2nd rounder when he demanded an extension in 2005, he had little leverage in negotiations moving from that level of a rookie contract up. Fitz was a 1st rounder who hit all of his escalators and needed to be re-signed in 2008 (his cap value was $16 mil at the time); otherwise, we would have had no cap money.

As for QBs. Although Leinart was the starter at first, Warner was getting the "no huddle" reps. It was only a matter of time before Warner supplanted him and it happened quicker because of Leinart's clavicle injury.

It is true that Whiz did not initially like either Leinart or Warner. He only settled in on Wrner when it became clear that it gave him the best opportunity to win between the two. Warner produced records of 9-7 with three playoff wins and a SB loss in '08 He produced a 10-7 record with one playoff win in and a loss to NO in '09. Warner saw that Whiz had no intent to keep either Gandy or Wells in '10, and realizing that he would have a poorer O-line than last year, AND a weaker Defense than last year, opted for retirement, a very prudent move by him.

You are way off here. Warner retired because of nagging injuries that he felt were going to impact his quality of life moving forward so he could be a family man. Recall that in 2009, the guy had hip surgery before the season, played all year with a shoulder injury and sustained multiple concussions. Being that he was 39, it wasnt going to get better. He made a smart decision for his well being and I hold no ill will towards him

Both Rolle and Dansby turned down the same money that they signed for in NY and Miami, when our FO offered it to them. THis waiting for the payday thing has been a persistent thing with Whiz since his arrival, just as has the paying dues thing been for any youngsters who hoped to, (or even deserved to), break into the starting lineup. It seems to be a personal rule, and not one dictated by the FO or by ownership.

The waiting thing has been here for ever and ever. Why are you singling Whis out? This is unmerited criticism.

With regards to individual players. Dansby was offered the same contract; HOWEVER in Florida, there is no income tax. Therefore, that contract turned out to be more lucrative for him. Part of the reason LeBron James signed with the Heat.

Dansby had no loyalty to anyone but the pay check. He made this abundantly clear the last two seasons he was here.

As for Rolle. He wanted to play in the big city lights and his teammate and good friend, Kenny Phillips, plays SS for the Giants.

I too, feel that this article is an attempt to take blame somewhat away from Whiz, but Whiz has far more to answer for than all other sources put together when this problem is truly analyzed. Had Whiz treated these players with the same loyalty he demanded of them, they might have stayed to play for us when offered the big money, instead of opting out. I suspect that they tired quickly of his public criticisms,and his attempts to chastise them publicly.

Who did he chastise publicly? You seem to be comparing the guy to Henry VIII when there is no base for the criticisms you are giving him.

 

[Shane]

This is in part BS. Did they want Leinart to be 'the guy'? Of course. A year before a 1st round pick and a huge contract was spent on the guy so this isn't a stretch. The problem with Leinart was that Whiz wanted him to build his game around Whiz's scheme and not the other way around. Good coaches see what type of QB they have and they develop their game plan around that. Whiz wanted Leinart to be a drop back pocket passer which is not the type of QB he was. Green recognized this and game planned around the fact that Leinart was built for the West Coast offense. Quick slants and such. Watch the Bears and Viking games. I mean, the guy threw for 2,500 yards and 11 TD in 12 games his rookie year so there was some promise but the WC offense isn't Whiz's thing. I'd be willing to bet that a team built around the WC offense *cough*<Seattle>*cough* signs him and he'll be somewhat successful.

Laughable. If he was going to go to Seattle they had a need for a 3rd qb whe Matt was released and they didn't even attempt to bring him in. That's saying something. Carroll. Even stated they had no interest iirc just because most thought that landing spot made the most sense.

 

[Buckybird]

This is so wrong,i don't know where to start. Whiz didn't demand Boldin wait for Fitz money. Boldin was supposedly promised a new deal by Graves and Graves reneged and Boldin was PO'd. Whis doesn't mettle in contract negotiations. He id make a comment on the situation, when asked, but to blame Boldin leaving on Whiz is completely false. In fact, Graves traded him.He didn't leave via free agency. Dansby and Rolle offers were save face offers by Graves after the fact. Why was he willing to offer them money after the other teams had basically agreed to deals with them? To try and save face , that's why. Now Graves can think the fan base is dumb enough to think he made legit offers but the players chose to leave.
Whiz jas played rookies and moved them into prominent roles whne they were ready. DRC started from about week 8 on. Beanie was the main ball carrier the 2nd half of last season. Most rookies need adjustment time. Williams is playing more and more. What's wrong with making them earn their spot?
The article places the blame exactly where it should, on Rod Graves doorstep. Warner didn't retire because of Gandy and Wells, are you serious. If there was any chance he'd return, it probably ended when Graves traded Boldin for unknown reasons and let his best defensive player leave for nothing.
I'm not a huge Bulger fan but if you put him on this team with Boldin and Dansby the Cards are probably resting players for the playoffs this weekend.
The season ticket holders and fans should be pissed and let the FO know it. 53 straight sellouts and they cut payroll by 30 mill. I'm sure they didn't lower prices accordingly.

While I can't stand the thought of the human snail being our GM, he does answer to one of the biggest $$$ meisers (Bowtie) in the history of sports. Mr B does alot for charities but skimps success & product on the field thru his human puppet, Mr Graves. I truely believe that the "same ole cardinals" still exist & won't change until the old man is sadly pased. Michael will be the man who eventually changes this teams legacy & already has to some extent. But, as long as his Dad is still around...

 

[TJ]

Bulger is garbage. Great move by ownership if true and further proof that Whisenhunt is clueless.

Whis could bring Tom Brady in and youd still throw find a way to throw the man under the bus.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Whis could bring Tom Brady in and youd still throw find a way to throw the man under the bus.

LOL at that thought. I just want him to bring in anyone that can actually play instead of McFadden and Faneca. It would be nice to get at least one impact free agent during his tenure. Brady...LMAO.

 

[azsouthendzone]

As far as Whiz being clueless I have to say the jury is still out on that. Anyone who dragged this team to a super bowl deserves a long leash IMHO.

He has a long enough leash to hang himself unfortunately.

 

[82CardsGrad]

LOL at that thought. I just want him to bring in anyone that can actually play instead of McFadden and Faneca. It would be nice to get at least one impact free agent during his tenure. Brady...LMAO.

Well, he did bring in Haggans and Porter as well... oh, wait...

 

[football karma]

Interesting -- while I believe getting Bulger NEXT year would be a good idea, having him this year would have been a disaster

Bulger is in the shell shocked mode still. He got pounded the last three years and is gun shy and flinchy. He needs a year to recover, much in the same way Warner got a year of not playing much before he eventually got to be a starter again.

Putting Bulger behind this line from the start of the season would have resulted in him retiring this year.

Whomever takes snaps next year -- fixing the offensive line protection has to be done.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

LOL at that thought. I just want him to bring in anyone that can actually play instead of McFadden and Faneca. It would be nice to get at least one impact free agent during his tenure. Brady...LMAO.

The Cards have never brought in a FA that was wanted by other teams. They got lucky and hit with Berry and Warner but neither were considered impact FA's at the time. They were more like looking to catch on with anyone who will take them FA's. Graves's, since he's the one in charge of free agency, impact signings have been more along the lines of Terence Holt, Al Johnson, Oliver Ross, and Orlando Huff.

 

[desertdawg]

Interesting -- while I believe getting Bulger NEXT year would be a good idea, having him this year would have been a disaster

Bulger is in the shell shocked mode still. He got pounded the last three years and is gun shy and flinchy. He needs a year to recover, much in the same way Warner got a year of not playing much before he eventually got to be a starter again.

Putting Bulger behind this line from the start of the season would have resulted in him retiring this year.

Whomever takes snaps next year -- fixing the offensive line protection has to be done.

Muchos.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The Cards have never brought in a FA that was wanted by other teams. They got lucky and hit with Berry and Warner but neither were considered impact FA's at the time. They were more like looking to catch on with anyone who will take them FA's. Graves's, since he's the one in charge of free agency, impact signings have been more along the lines of Terence Holt, Al Johnson, Oliver Ross, and Orlando Huff.

You have to look at it from the bizzaro azsouthendzone logic:

In one corner, you have Whiz - Who is going through his first losing season in 4 after wholesale changes and the loss of a Hall of Fame QB. Oh, and he's taken to the team to it's only super bowl, and has won more playoff games then every other Cardinals coach over the last...forever.

In the other corner, you have Graves and the Cardinals front office. A front office that has been the laughing stock of the league and arguably the most pathetic team of all time in all of sports.


The stupidity of certain members of this board is only superseded by their insistence to continue to make the same insane arguments over and over.

 

[Rats]

You have to look at it from the bizzaro azsouthendzone logic:

In one corner, you have Whiz - Who is going through his first losing season in 4 after wholesale changes and the loss of a Hall of Fame QB. Oh, and he's taken to the team to it's only super bowl, and has won more playoff games then every other Cardinals coach over the last...forever.

In the other corner, you have Graves and the Cardinals front office. A front office that has been the laughing stock of the league and arguably the most pathetic team of all time in all of sports.


I can stipulate to this if you can stipulate that Dennis Green had to deal with the same Front office and inherited a roster of rejects, then added real NFL talent ,and that with Warners resurgence( with Haleys help)Whis benefited from this to win those Division titles. He is now rebuilding and has the opportunity (with his guys) to win. If he is so great he should be able to overcome the bafoons in the ownership group by adding top talent that he can "coach up". He couldn't this year.

 

[bugboy]

It is laughable for Whisenhunt to be on a witch hunt against Leinart for four years. Sure, he is a bit lazy and maybe a little cocky. But who cares? So is Jay Cutler and he would have been a godsend for the Cardinals.

Just don't understand why so many quarterbacks get hung out to dry just because they don't have the "work ethic" of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees. How many guys really do?

I find it hard to believe that fans assume the Cards would still be in this same fix with Leinart under center. Like him or not, I don't see him as being any "worse" than guys like Carson Palmer (Bengals) or Ryan Fitzpatrick (Bills), two QB's playing better than anybody on the Cardinals this year.

I can easily see Leinart putting up journeyman numbers like Matt Hasselbeck, with about a 1-1 TD/INT ratio which is what the Seahawks are getting from him but at least they have some wins. And again, his numbers are still better than anyone on this year's team.

The team will continue to go through this madness while Whisenhunt keeps looking for "the next Roethlisberger."

 

[Rats]

It is laughable for Whisenhunt to be on a witch hunt against Leinart for four years. Sure, he is a bit lazy and maybe a little cocky. But who cares? So is Jay Cutler and he would have been a godsend for the Cardinals.

Just don't understand why so many quarterbacks get hung out to dry just because they don't have the "work ethic" of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees. How many guys really do?

I find it hard to believe that fans assume the Cards would still be in this same fix with Leinart under center. Like him or not, I don't see him as being any "worse" than guys like Carson Palmer (Bengals) or Ryan Fitzpatrick (Bills), two QB's playing better than anybody on the Cardinals this year.

I can easily see Leinart putting up journeyman numbers like Matt Hasselbeck, with about a 1-1 TD/INT ratio which is what the Seahawks are getting from him but at least they have some wins. And again, his numbers are still better than anyone on this year's team.

The team will continue to go through this madness while Whisenhunt keeps looking for "the next Roethlisberger."

He and Rothenslut didn't have a cozy relationship either but I agree with you on Matt and I think most reasonable ones here think we probably get our NFC Worst division title had Ken Whisnchoke not punted on 4th and inches with regards to Matt. Academic now as he has had to endure DA scud launcher and it dented his resume even with his supporters. He has failed in 4 years in replaceing talent that has left and our record reflects it.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It is laughable for Whisenhunt to be on a witch hunt against Leinart for four years. Sure, he is a bit lazy and maybe a little cocky. But who cares? So is Jay Cutler and he would have been a godsend for the Cardinals.

Excellent analogy, you keep showing your NFL acumen with every post! Comparing Leinart to Cutler is somewhere beyond laughable. In case you missed the memo, NFL talent evaluators valued Cutler so highly, he was traded for Kyle Orton, TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS and a 3rd rounder. The Cardinals couldn't even get a 7th ROUND PICK FOR LEINART!

 

[Sandan]

This is so wrong,i don't know where to start. Whiz didn't demand Boldin wait for Fitz money. Boldin was supposedly promised a new deal by Graves and Graves reneged and Boldin was PO'd.

Remember this line came from Drew R [spawn of the devil] his agent. If I have a choice between believing Boldin/DR or RG I'll take Rod Graves every time.

RG may or may not be the best GM but he is honest and reasonable, would anybody say DR is honest and reasonable

 

[Duckjake]

Excellent analogy, you keep showing your NFL acumen with every post! Comparing Leinart to Cutler is somewhere beyond laughable. In case you missed the memo, NFL talent evaluators valued Cutler so highly, he was traded for Kyle Orton, TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS and a 3rd rounder. The Cardinals couldn't even get a 7th ROUND PICK FOR LEINART!

That was because of Leinart's contract. Nobody was going to give up draft picks and then pay a #2 that much money especially a week before the season started so they would have no chance to evaluate him in their system.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

That was because of Leinart's contract. Nobody was going to give up draft picks and then pay a #2 that much money especially a week before the season started so they would have no chance to evaluate him in their system.

His contract was a discouraging factor, however the fact that the best option he had was to be a number 3 qb in a qb starved league speaks volume as to what his value is. To compare him in any way to Cutler, other than draft position is ludicrous.

 

[bugboy]

Excellent analogy, you keep showing your NFL acumen with every post! Comparing Leinart to Cutler is somewhere beyond laughable. In case you missed the memo, NFL talent evaluators valued Cutler so highly, he was traded for Kyle Orton, TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS and a 3rd rounder. The Cardinals couldn't even get a 7th ROUND PICK FOR LEINART!

Cutler is also so respected around the league that a lot of people consider the Bears trading for him to be a bust, a pretty interesting classification since the Broncos coach who made the trade has since been fired for bad personnel moves. However it is widely considered a "good move" for the Broncos to have gotten rid of him, Cutler, I mean. Though I noticed McDaniels being fired has also been well received.

Cutler is also compared to Jeff George by just about every other NFL fan, blogger and "expert."

I think they are pretty darn similar in that one coach drafted each of them, only to be replaced by a coach who went out of their way to run each guy out of town.

I like Cutler myself but outside of the Chicago Bears front office, I'd be interested in seeing who considers Cutler an "elite" quarterback on the level with Manning or Brady, like you seem to suggest he is.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Cutler is also so respected around the league that a lot of people consider the Bears trading for him to be a bust, a pretty interesting classification since the Broncos coach who made the trade has since been fired for bad personnel moves. However it is widely considered a "good move" for the Broncos to have gotten rid of him.

Cutler is also compared to Jeff George by just about every other NFL fan, blogger and "expert."

I think they are pretty darn similar in that one coach drafted each of them, only to be replaced by a coach who went out of their way to run each guy out of town.

I like Cutler myself but outside of the Chicago Bears front office, I'd be interested in seeing who considers Cutler an "elite" quarterback on the level with Manning or Brady, like you seem to suggest he is.

What may go down as one of all-time swindles is what Holgrem did to McDaniels in getting Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn. Now there's a guy you can compare Leinart to in Quinn, Cutler not so much.

 

[desertdawg]

What may go down as one of all-time swindles is what Holgrem did to McDaniels in getting Peyton Hillis for Brady Quinn. Now there's a guy you can compare Leinart to in Quinn, Cutler not so much.

The Leeen-eart = Quinn.