Cardinals RB?

[Faithful]

Green will turn this Shipp around. The 0-line included.

:notworthy

 

[CardNots]

When the last our opponent respected the passing game? You can get the OL problems fixed as well as the RB position. You still won't be able to run unless the other team respects your passing game.

I wonder how our failure to run is related to a poor vertical passing game?

 

[Sandan]

The team let go Kendall who was good enough to start for a playoff team. I am willing to bet that means he could have contributed for us. Oh I forgot he expected Green to follow labor rules so he was canned. Silly him to have those expectations.

Maybe it's because he wouldn't play guard for us

 

[Sandan]

Since Stump Mitchell and Larry Centers, the Cardinals have gone through a slew of RB's - including Murrell, Thomas Jones and Emmitt, only to struggle running the ball. Variable - the different running backs, Constant - the O-line/TE. (Think there may be a clue here?)

Jeff you are normally very organized in your thoughts but I guess you hadn't had your coffee yet this morning.

Are you saying e have had the same O-Line for all that time, I don't think so. Both have been changing

 

[JeffGollin]

Jeff you are normally very organized in your thoughts but I guess you hadn't had your coffee yet this morning. Are you saying we have had the same O-Line for all that time, I don't think so. Both have been changing
Sometimes, in an effort to be concise, I leave myself open to not being complete in my comments.

The underlying point of my comment was that we're at that time of the off season when everyone goes gah gah over the glamor players; in this case running backs.

It's true that the team has devoted draft picks and trades toward shoring up the offensive line. But the bottom line is that our running attack has been subpar for quite a while. And when you watch tape, you see all too many instances where our linemen are bullrushed back into the backfield, bump into each other and various other kinds of blocking "hijinx."

On the other hand, you watch a team like the Jets or the Steelers and it's like the red sea parting. A hole appears. The runner runs through it. How novel!!!

I don't know why it is that we've had trouble running the ball the way we need to. It could be specific players. It could be the coaching. It could be someone tipping off the plays. It could be faulty presnap reads. It could be complicated blocking patterns.

Conceivably it could also be our running backs, but my eyeballs tell me that when the blocking is there, Hambrick has shown he can run through the hole, Shipp has gained primo yardage and we all remember a couple of long runs in preseason that Damian Anderson picked up off Rue's blocks.

It's in my DNA to believe that the underpinnings of great running attacks come from strong offensive line/TE blocking. And for some reason, it isn't happening. (Maybe we should try voodoo).

With this in mind, I feel that there's a tendency overemphasize drafting the high-profile RB as some kind of cure-all, whereas there may be a player at another position at #8 who can help us more.

(Note - Or not. If it turns out that Ron Brown was the best player on our board at #8 (or possibly Benson - if the coaches liked him - if we traded up to #3), I'd be happy to get either one of them).
__________________

 

[Sandan]

But the bottom line is that our running attack has been subpar for quite a while.

I agree with everything you said but this is the understatement of the century.

While I don't have remotely the length of time with this disease that John_h does, I do remember ... dare I say it ....

Leeland Mcalroy, run, left, run right, run left again ... splat 2 yds deep in the backfield. Ah, I remember the good old days of Cardinals running games.

 

[BigRedMO]

Nidan, my belief regarding Kendall is that when you are 6-10 if you have a guy that can start with a playoff team and that area is not good on your team then you find a way to motivate him and get him in the line-up. To me Green cutting him was aying that Green could not motivate him to follow his plan. That says more about Green's leadership then about Kendall. Green had a useful asset that he could not motivate but another coach could.

Once again to go back into history when Hanifan took over the line he moved future all pro center Tom Banks from guard, moved future hall of famer Dierdorf from left tackle to right tackle, McMillan from right tackle to left tackle and moved to the first string future all-pros Conrad Dobler and Bob Young. The point I am getting at is that on the current team there seems to be not enough good offensive linemen. If a guy can play the team needs to find a spot somewhere on the line for him.

The ability to motivate players and get them to play together is a skill that is greatly underappreciated. Coryell, Hanifan, Gibbs and Dowhower were masters at getting the maximum contribution from players and getting them to play as a team.

 

[ajcardfan]

Nidan, my belief regarding Kendall is that when you are 6-10 if you have a guy that can start with a playoff team and that area is not good on your team then you find a way to motivate him and get him in the line-up. To me Green cutting him was aying that Green could not motivate him to follow his plan. That says more about Green's leadership then about Kendall. Green had a useful asset that he could not motivate but another coach could.

You're probably right. If Green had just allowed Kendall to give him a shoulder rub while he cried in front of the team, he wouldn't have had to cut him. That Pete Kendall would've been running through brick walls for Green and we'd all be waiting by the mailbox for our special S.I. Super Bowl editions.

 

[Russ Smith]

Maybe it's because he wouldn't play guard for us

Kendall was the starting C when he got cut, are you saying Green wanted him to move to G so he could start Step, and Kendall refused? ANything is possible but I sure never heard that rumor. I know Lex complained that we moved Kendall to C to extend his career and give him more paychecks.

If that was the case it's odd that Kendall went to the Jets and played guard there, while having "a dozen" teams pursuing him which suggests if he REALLY didn't want to play guard, he wouldn't have signed with a team that was going to play him at guard.

Just doesn't pass the logic test a guy who doesn't want to play guard gets himself cut, then has his pick of several teams and picks the one that has a probowl C(his buddy) and is guaranteed to NOT let him play C.

 

[earthsci]

Just doesn't pass the logic test a guy who doesn't want to play guard gets himself cut, then has his pick of several teams and picks the one that has a probowl C(his buddy) and is guaranteed to NOT let him play C.

You're pretty smart Russ, I'm sure that you can figure it out. Perhaps it wasn't so much that Kendall didn't want to play center as it was that he didn't think that was what should happen. You know, taking out a vet (Spikes), replacing him with a vet (Kendall) and plugging in a rookie. Kendall was the leader of the OL and we know, if he didn't agree to it he probably made alot of noise.

 

[Russ Smith]

You're pretty smart Russ, I'm sure that you can figure it out. Perhaps it wasn't so much that Kendall didn't want to play center as it was that he didn't think that was what should happen. You know, taking out a vet (Sparks), replacing him with a vet (Kendall) and plugging in a rookie. Kendall was the leader of the OL and we know, if he didn't agree to it he probably made alot of noise.

If I follow, you're saying Green wanted to replace Spikes with Kendall, to get Step in the starting lineup, and Kendall didn't like that? Kendall presumably would have played LG again with Wells at RG since Kendall has played LG his whole career.


I don't know what happened but I do know Step was caught by surprise when Kendall was released, as was Wylie, so it seems odd that Step didn't know they wanted him to start?

BTW I do agree, if Green felt Step at C and Kendall at G was the best lineup, he should have done that, and if Kendall refused, cut him by all means. I just hadn't heard that rumor before.

My opinion on the Kendall thing changed, at some point I think it came down to Green just didn't believe Kendall was going to buy in to his program, so he made an example of him. I do think in a perfect world Green would have convinced him to buy in, but I can understand why Green chose to do it, maximum shock value for the rest of the team couldn't have been clearer. Ultimately as good as Kendall was the team lost games his entire time here. I just wish Green had handled it differently I refuse to believe we couldn't have traded Kendall there was clearly a market for him.

 

[john h]

If I follow, you're saying Green wanted to replace Spikes with Kendall, to get Step in the starting lineup, and Kendall didn't like that? Kendall presumably would have played LG again with Wells at RG since Kendall has played LG his whole career.


I don't know what happened but I do know Step was caught by surprise when Kendall was released, as was Wylie, so it seems odd that Step didn't know they wanted him to start?

BTW I do agree, if Green felt Step at C and Kendall at G was the best lineup, he should have done that, and if Kendall refused, cut him by all means. I just hadn't heard that rumor before.

My opinion on the Kendall thing changed, at some point I think it came down to Green just didn't believe Kendall was going to buy in to his program, so he made an example of him. I do think in a perfect world Green would have convinced him to buy in, but I can understand why Green chose to do it, maximum shock value for the rest of the team couldn't have been clearer. Ultimately as good as Kendall was the team lost games his entire time here. I just wish Green had handled it differently I refuse to believe we couldn't have traded Kendall there was clearly a market for him.

At this level I for the most part do not see making examples of grown men (with big egos) examples off or any value in so called "shock value". You sit down with your employees and discuss the problem or differences to see if they can be resolved. Audults do not tend to respond positively when they see people they perceive as good employees fired for reasons they do not comprehend. I think this had a negative effect on the team beyond Kendals abilities as a player.

 

[BigRedMO]

John I agree with you about making an example of a person. There may be times when someone has to be terminated but I dont agree that it should be done to make an example of them. They are people not photo copiers. If more employers thought of their people as other than equipment things would be better for people and organizations. Organizations would have a better chance at loyalty and maximum effort from an employee that way.

 

[WildBB]

John I agree with you about making an example of a person. There may be times when someone has to be terminated but I dont agree that it should be done to make an example of them. They are people not photo copiers. If more employers thought of their people as other than equipment things would be better for people and organizations. Organizations would have a better chance at loyalty and maximum effort from an employee that way.

And for another thing he went on record saying he's not the one who snitched out Green to the union. Hence the Shelton trade talk now.

 

[Russ Smith]

John I agree with you about making an example of a person. There may be times when someone has to be terminated but I dont agree that it should be done to make an example of them. They are people not photo copiers. If more employers thought of their people as other than equipment things would be better for people and organizations. Organizations would have a better chance at loyalty and maximum effort from an employee that way.

In theory I agree with you, the one thing I'll say in green's defense was we hired him knowing how he worked. Green is very much my way or the highway bunker mentality, the Cards HAD to know that before they hired him. I think green simply felt Kendall's value as a player wasn't as good as his potential to be divisive. Same with blake, on the surface I think both guys would have helped this team win games, but would have detracted from Green building HIS team.

I wouldn't have cut Kendall, but I understand why Green did.

 

[BigRedMO]

I absolutely think that there are times when an employee and employer just cant be productive and one has to go. That person more often than not is the employee. It is not pleasant but if the employee has been given notice of what is expected and it is reasonable and he does not comply then I understand the need to fire a person. I just disagree with the idea of a person being fired as an example to others to toe the line. Each person should be dealt with individually in that case.

 

[JeffGollin]

I absolutely think that there are times when an employee and employer just cant be productive and one has to go.
Unless we were actually there, we don't really know, but I don't think productivity entered into this.

My take is that Dennis Green took the job operating on certain fixed inviolate principles. One of those principles involved changing the mind-set of a chronically losing franchise 180 degrees.

Rightly or wrongly, The Sheriff came into Dodge with both guns blazing - he introduced his team to lengthy full speed, full contact high-tempo minicamp practices that operated on the edge of violating the spirit if not the letter of the NFL Labor agreement.

Pete supposedly dimed Dennis (or at least Dennis thought so).

If Green was to be single-minded in installing his program as he felt it needed to be installed regardless of a certain amount of inevitable resistance, the issue boiled down to "Team Leader or Latrine Lawyer?" and, in Dennis' eyes, Kendall had to go.

That's how I saw it. Do I agree with it? No. Losing Kendall's talent and leadership cost the team. But I do understand why Dennis felt he had to do it - it involved bigger principles involved with building a winning franchise.

 

[earthsci]

I wouldn't have cut Kendall, but I understand why Green did.

This is why you are a great person to have on this board. Open minded.

I just disagree with the idea of a person being fired as an example to others to toe the line. Each person should be dealt with individually in that case.

I don't think that was the only reason. The example part. Pete was the OL leader if not the entire offense. He was very vocal about his opinions, even if if it didn't agree with the party line. I think that Denny got rid of Pete to remove any opposition to his plan.

By the way, up until the day that Kendall was released, he was my favorite player on the Cards.

 

[BigRedMO]

Earth sci,


My last post was speaking in generalities as in a hypothetical case. It was not referring to Kendall. It was general philosophy.

 

[BigRedMO]

Changing attitude may be important but you dont want to run off your talent in the process. I believe in constructive motivation instead of destructive. It is too hard to find good players.

The NFL is very competitive. There is not much difference in teams from top to bottom. Take a couple players from one and give them to another it can drastically change both teams. So I prefer not to give away players who can play if at all possible.

 

[john h]

This is why you are a great person to have on this board. Open minded.



I don't think that was the only reason. The example part. Pete was the OL leader if not the entire offense. He was very vocal about his opinions, even if if it didn't agree with the party line. I think that Denny got rid of Pete to remove any opposition to his plan.

By the way, up until the day that Kendall was released, he was my favorite player on the Cards.

I would not have cut Kendall and the team was worse for it. You do not cut off your nose to spite your face. We needed good OL then and we need them now. Makes zero sense no matter how you spin it. It should have been worked out. We got nothing for him and will at some point use a draft pick or trade to replace him and it is doubtful who ever it is will be as good. A lot of teams have players who probably disagree with the coach. Certainly Corey Dillon would qualify. It was a bad move then and it remains a bad move as we will need a backup center this year or maybe a better one than the one we started. DG did not think this through. He acted out of instinct. If a company fires every employee who disagrees with their boss they have a sorry company. You need some disagreement so you can explore other options that might be presented. You do not need a bunch of yes cool aid drinkers. These days you find many super stars say what they think not what the coach wants to hear.

 

[Rats]

I would not have cut Kendall and the team was worse for it. You do not cut off your nose to spite your face. We needed good OL then and we need them now. Makes zero sense no matter how you spin it. It should have been worked out. We got nothing for him and will at some point use a draft pick or trade to replace him and it is doubtful who ever it is will be as good. A lot of teams have players who probably disagree with the coach. Certainly Corey Dillon would qualify. It was a bad move then and it remains a bad move as we will need a backup center this year or maybe a better one than the one we started. DG did not think this through. He acted out of instinct. If a company fires every employee who disagrees with their boss they have a sorry company. You need some disagreement so you can explore other options that might be presented. You do not need a bunch of yes cool aid drinkers. These days you find many super stars say what they think not what the coach wants to hear.

John, Pete Kendall had to many injuries to justify his paycheck. He was a gutsy player that spoke his mind. This was a personality clash to be sure but it was in the end the best move. You don't have to spin anything to see that. DG wasn't going anywhere and there would have been to many times butting heads with "Hardhead" Kendall as disorganized as this offense and the Oline was. Kendall would not have helped the situation and would have probably been injured by the 10th week of the season. It was counter productive to keep him. And if he squealed on his Coach after the minicamp there was no way DG, even if he wanted to, could have kept him. That is not hard to see unless you do not want to.