Cards expected to move on from Mathieu

[RugbyMuffin]

Re: Hate for Tyrann:
What I hate is enduring all the typical personnel mistakes teams typically make over a period of years to get a player who's a legitimate baller - only to give away all that talent for practically nothing.

Its been 2 years, the talent that was worth the amount of money he is being given is no longer there.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It's still why players hate fans. Not all fans, but plenty.

Agreed.

Remember that players do hate fans, and that player's loyal to fans is never enough when it is time to have a labor strike, or get their next contract.

Thus fans will talk like fans will talk without really caring of hurt feelings.

They want their cake and to eat it too. They want the fans to support them, no matter what, and then understand when the loyalty isn't returned when the money part of the job comes around.

In turn, that is why I say, get out there, and win the damn football game and make it entertaining or I will stop paying to watch.

Its a business.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It was a calculated risk that had little reward.

Agreed.

But, when the reward COULD have been a perennial defensive player of the year talent, can anyone question why they took the risk ?

The situation is just no working out, it happens. Not sure what some people want out of the situation.

 

[Southpaw]

The real shock may come when he doesn't get the expected big $$$$$ offer from 31 other teams. That will establish his real market value.

 

[BillsCarnage]

The real shock may come when he doesn't get the expected big $$$$$ offer from 31 other teams. That will establish his real market value.

Yup. Which is why he's crazy to not restructure the deal. But honestly, why would the Cards still want to pay him that kind of $$ either.

 

[Solar7]

Agreed.

Remember that players do hate fans, and that player's loyal to fans is never enough when it is time to have a labor strike, or get their next contract.

Thus fans will talk like fans will talk without really caring of hurt feelings.

They want their cake and to eat it too. They want the fans to support them, no matter what, and then understand when the loyalty isn't returned when the money part of the job comes around.

In turn, that is why I say, get out there, and win the damn football game and make it entertaining or I will stop paying to watch.

Its a business.

The thing is, players do things for the community, they donate, they form foundations, they get out there and try to make a difference. Fans seem to ignore that when a guy drops the ball that would have won them their fantasy matchup, or doesn't recover from injury as fast as they'd like. I think it's unfair. Again, not all fans are like this, but I think that someone that dumps on someone just for the sake of being a public figure is kind of a crappy person.

Now, if it's someone like Aldon Smith or someone else that has done something despicable? Have at 'em.

 

[CardsFan88]

It's a tough deal for HB. He puts it all out there, despite his size, and has become a better person.

He can risk getting it all or being cut and getting less. There will obviously be a market for him, and even a halfway lucrative one. But he isn't going to get close to what he has under this deal. Probably somewhere in the 5-8 mill range per season, but likely 2-4 years. So 10-32 million overall I'd guess? It too would likely have roster bonuses in a 2nd or 3rd year of the deal which means the higher end isn't guaranteed to be there either even if the reported numbers suggest it 'could be'.

It is within his rights to be upset and want to go elsewhere for the same or less then we are restructuring, but given all the faith, support, and money the Cards have given him after taking a risk on him, I hope he doesn't take it too personal.

Right now he's in an uncertain situation and it must be frustrating. He doesn't control his fate unless he decides to burn bridges. Sometimes that alone can lead people to burn bridges, because it's the only thing they control. But doing that is a risk, even if it might feel good to him. Hopefully cooler heads prevail and both sides make a compromise.

I appreciate the things he's done here and wish him well. I hope he is on our team, but understand one way or another. The Cards need the flexibility to make moves in a new era. Unfortunate for him, his money vs ability/production have the biggest target around it and any change can reap the Cardinals the greatest benefit of recouped flexibility over the next few seasons.

He can risk getting cut and risk getting a deal from somewhere else, or realize the situation the team is in along with his reduced ability and agree to a restructure. Any Cards restructure might be his best offer. I hope they work it out.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The thing is, players do things for the community, they donate, they form foundations, they get out there and try to make a difference. Fans seem to ignore that when a guy drops the ball that would have won them their fantasy matchup, or doesn't recover from injury as fast as they'd like. I think it's unfair. Again, not all fans are like this, but I think that someone that dumps on someone just for the sake of being a public figure is kind of a crappy person.

Now, if it's someone like Aldon Smith or someone else that has done something despicable? Have at 'em.

You are entitled to your opinion.

Personally, I find it fine. I personally keep my heckling based on what their job is. Meaning I will complain about a dropped pass, but could care less what the guy does when he is at home. Some people take it further then I do, but they pay their ticket, and invest their time, and the public figure is in the public. No issue with it, and certainly do not find a person to be "crappy" because they are at a bar, or on a message board talking bad about a public figure.

To each his own, I see both sides of that situation, and am fine with either. I certainly do not have sympathy for a public figure, who gets paid to be a public figure, then having to deal with what is part of the job in being a public figure.


By the way, many people besides athlete's and public figures do things for their community, and with much less time and resources. So, that is great an all, but I do not see what that has to do with anything.

 

[Solar7]

You are entitled to your opinion.

Personally, I find it fine. I personally keep my heckling based on what their job is. Meaning I will complain about a dropped pass, but could care less what the guy does when he is at home. Some people take it further then I do, but they pay their ticket, and invest their time, and the public figure is in the public. No issue with it, and certainly do not find a person to be "crappy" because they are at a bar, or on a message board talking bad about a public figure.

To each his own, I see both sides of that situation, and am fine with either. I certainly do not have sympathy for a public figure, who gets paid to be a public figure, then having to deal with what is part of the job in being a public figure.


By the way, many people besides athlete's and public figures do things for their community, and with much less time and resources. So, that is great an all, but I do not see what that has to do with anything.

The point is that he's not a bad person that warrants a "good riddance" reply? He's done everything right since he came here. The volunteer hours and contributions are just him doing more with resources that many of us don't have.

I'm just of the mindset you shouldn't insult people you don't know. It reminds me of girls in high school who would call all of the cheerleaders terrible names and spread rumors about them, because apparently the cheerleaders were "*******" by default because they either had looks or money. I guess it's a "judge not, lest ye be judged" part of my personality.

 

[Arz101]

If you have anything negative to say about Tyrann Mathieu as a person since he has been an Arizona Cardinal, get up from your PC and walk away for good.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The point is that he's not a bad person that warrants a "good riddance" reply?

I personally agree. Got nothing personal against Mathieu. Guy has worked hard to get where he needs to.

Those who do that type of thing, does it really matter? Is Mathieu going to read that, and even if he did, would he really care ? He can laugh and count his money, which is what I would do in his place.

Yet, I pay money to watch Cardinals football, and strictly talking football, he needs to take a pay cut, or be released. Its just good business to do so, especially at this point, because the Cardinals have already given him more time then most teams would to prove he is a top 5 defensive back and should be paid as such.

I sit around and talk about athletes who are so far above my skills all day, saying "He sucks" or this guy is better than this guy, etc., etc. It is part of it. If the players get hurt feelings because I think they are not worth their salary any more, well, too bad.

It reminds me of girls in high school who would call all of the cheerleaders terrible names and spread rumors about them, because apparently the cheerleaders were "*******" by default because they either had looks or money. I guess it's a "judge not, lest ye be judged" part of my personality.

I guess. What you describe above is a societal thing that I could talk about for hours on. But, if you want to be a cheerleader, you are going to be in front of a crowd. If you are jealous of the cheearleader because of looks and money, then get in the gym and a get a job......but I digress.

I'm just of the mindset you shouldn't insult people you don't know.

Understood and respected statement. If you are of that mindset, I would say you are in a less than 1% of the world's population with that.

Thus I am just not sure how realistic that is.

This society spends a lot of time worrying, complaining, and hand wringing about people they do not know.

Sports is a drop in the bucket, in comparison to politics and religion where you have people bad mouthing their neighbors without even knowing their names, and those neighbors are not public figures.......if those "neighbors" truly exist at all.


Again, its all good, I understand where you are coming from. But, I think it would be safe to assume that even though you find people to be "crappy" for these traits you have to accept them with some of your friends and associates, since there are not to many that can keep that line, so to speak.

That fact you can, is impressive.

 

[Solar7]

I personally agree. Got nothing personal against Mathieu. Guy has worked hard to get where he needs to.

Those who do that type of thing, does it really matter? Is Mathieu going to read that, and even if he did, would he really care ? He can laugh and count his money, which is what I would do in his place.

Yet, I pay money to watch Cardinals football, and strictly talking football, he needs to take a pay cut, or be released. Its just good business to do so, especially at this point, because the Cardinals have already given him more time then most teams would to prove he is a top 5 defensive back and should be paid as such.

I sit around and talk about athletes who are so far above my skills all day, saying "He sucks" or this guy is better than this guy, etc., etc. It is part of it. If the players get hurt feelings because I think they are not worth their salary any more, well, too bad.




I guess. What you describe above is a societal thing that I could talk about for hours on. But, if you want to be a cheerleader, you are going to be in front of a crowd. If you are jealous of the cheearleader because of looks and money, then get in the gym and a get a job......but I digress.





Understood and respected statement. If you are of that mindset, I would say you are in a less than 1% of the world's population with that.

Thus I am just not sure how realistic that is.

This society spends a lot of time worrying, complaining, and hand wringing about people they do not know.

Sports is a drop in the bucket, in comparison to politics and religion where you have people bad mouthing their neighbors without even knowing their names, and those neighbors are not public figures.......if those "neighbors" truly exist at all.


Again, its all good, I understand where you are coming from. But, I think it would be safe to assume that even though you find people to be "crappy" for these traits you have to accept them with some of your friends and associates, since there are not to many that can keep that line, so to speak.

That fact you can, is impressive.

Great post. I hold nothing against someone saying a player sucks... I'm sure I badmouthed Ryan Lindley plenty of times for his performance, and he's a family friend. I just don't like the anonymity of the internet - shouting insults at someone when they have no chance to fire back.

But yeah, I know plenty of people who judge others they don't know - I always just try to have the philosophical conversation with them. I guess part of it too is that I remember times in my life where people made baseless assumptions about me or said mean things for no reason, and I know I don't like the feeling, and wouldn't want to perpetuate it.

Sorry for steering us way off course in this conversation, haha.

 

[oaken1]

The thing is, players do things for the community, they donate, they form foundations, they get out there and try to make a difference. Fans seem to ignore that when a guy drops the ball that would have won them their fantasy matchup, or doesn't recover from injury as fast as they'd like. I think it's unfair. Again, not all fans are like this, but I think that someone that dumps on someone just for the sake of being a public figure is kind of a crappy person.

Now, if it's someone like Aldon Smith or someone else that has done something despicable? Have at 'em.

my 74 year old mother does things for the community... she serves at the homeless shelter two days a month...has for 50 years. Lots of people do charitable works.... know what most of them dont have?? Tax shelters...oops, sorry.... you used the word...Foundation.

These players spend their entire lives being told they are special, they're the greatest... they get adored and beloved by fans everywhere all the way through college and into the pros.....
nobody ******* when fans say a player is the best, say he is awesome....does that somehow make those fans better people?? Or does anyone wonder if maybe they do creepy things in the wee hours while looking at the poster on the wall? ( If you think they dont, let me refer you to TangoDnzr)

why the hypocrisy? why is it okay to stroke these guys until they have an unrealistic sense of self worth but then deplorable to point out their negatives?
Players "hate" fans... screw them, with a capital F..... not a single one of them would be where they are if it were not for the fans. Truth. Fact. If there were no football fans there would be no NFL. Without the fans they would never get those fat checks.
so,...you think along with being hypocrites they are also ungrateful little bastards?

what about the people who love on them soooo much... they cover up illegal activities for them in college? some of that stuff was highlighted when Jaimous Winston came in the league... but its been going on forever all over the country. Lots of those guys should have been in jail instead of on the college field... but sheriffs are fans too, so they let them off with a stern warning and a wink... and a "lets go beat Ohio State slugger!"
do you think the players hate the fans then? are those guys poopy people too?? For letting criminal activity go unpunished?? But, oh wait.... they were nice to the poor player...

you should read up on those "Foundations".... the reason so many players have them is because they allow you to write off a huge stack of cash without having to give up any money at the time. Instead, you pay into the foundation later when it is more convenient.... usually over several years...helps a player keep his money when he gets a $60mil signing bonus... many players never actually pay the money in which contributes to why so many end up broke later...the tax man cometh.... mostly, a "Foundation" is a PR tool and tax shelter... thats it.

 

[Solar7]

my 74 year old mother does things for the community... she serves at the homeless shelter two days a month...has for 50 years. Lots of people do charitable works.... know what most of them dont have?? Tax shelters...oops, sorry.... you used the word...Foundation.

These players spend their entire lives being told they are special, they're the greatest... they get adored and beloved by fans everywhere all the way through college and into the pros.....
nobody ******* when fans say a player is the best, say he is awesome....does that somehow make those fans better people?? Or does anyone wonder if maybe they do creepy things in the wee hours while looking at the poster on the wall? ( If you think they dont, let me refer you to TangoDnzr)

why the hypocrisy? why is it okay to stroke these guys until they have an unrealistic sense of self worth but then deplorable to point out their negatives?
Players "hate" fans... screw them, with a capital F..... not a single one of them would be where they are if it were not for the fans. Truth. Fact. If there were no football fans there would be no NFL. Without the fans they would never get those fat checks.
so,...you think along with being hypocrites they are also ungrateful little bastards?

what about the people who love on them soooo much... they cover up illegal activities for them in college? some of that stuff was highlighted when Jaimous Winston came in the league... but its been going on forever all over the country. Lots of those guys should have been in jail instead of on the college field... but sheriffs are fans too, so they let them off with a stern warning and a wink... and a "lets go beat Ohio State slugger!"
do you think the players hate the fans then? are those guys ****** people too?? For letting criminal activity go unpunished?? But, oh wait.... they were nice to the poor player...

you should read up on those "Foundations".... the reason so many players have them is because they allow you to write off a huge stack of cash without having to give up any money at the time. Instead, you pay into the foundation later when it is more convenient.... usually over several years...helps a player keep his money when he gets a $60mil signing bonus... many players never actually pay the money in which contributes to why so many end up broke later...the tax man cometh.... mostly, a "Foundation" is a PR tool and tax shelter... thats it.

Yep, there's two valid parts of the argument. But there's a lot of people who see them as a product than they do as individuals. It's up to you how you want to treat them, but especially in the case of pro football, we're asking them to put their bodies on the line for our entertainment. We throw our cash at them to watch them break limbs, suffer chronic brain disorders, and generally shorten their lifespan just so we can see modern day gladiators. Sure, they're not getting eaten by lions or stabbed in the side, but they're still doing things with little regard for human empathy - ignoring the consequences that they came from, the addictions they may have, the perils of remaining mentally stable in that environment.

Money doesn't cure all ails - in fact, it has a tendency to make them worse.

 

[oaken1]

Yep, there's two valid parts of the argument. But there's a lot of people who see them as a product than they do as individuals. It's up to you how you want to treat them, but especially in the case of pro football, we're asking them to put their bodies on the line for our entertainment. We throw our cash at them to watch them break limbs, suffer chronic brain disorders, and generally shorten their lifespan just so we can see modern day gladiators. Sure, they're not getting eaten by lions or stabbed in the side, but they're still doing things with little regard for human empathy - ignoring the consequences that they came from, the addictions they may have, the perils of remaining mentally stable in that environment.

Money doesn't cure all ails - in fact, it has a tendency to make them worse.

right.
These guys get paid millions to play a game. all the talk of injury risk and long term damage is crap,..completely irrelevant.
I was a driller for a few years. I saw two guys die, one get permanent brain damage causing right side paralysis,...one guy lost a hand and another lost an eye....watched a guy lose the top digit on his index finger...he put it in the cooler and went back to work.

not a single one of those guys ever even saw 150k a year, and every one of them worked harder than those candy asses in the nfl.

There are countless careers and millions of Americans who risk permanent injury or death every day. They take those risks because they are providing for their families.... and those risks are accepted. Police, firemen, electrical linemen, soldiers, search and rescue teams...all at greater risk than an nfl player...and none of them will ever see a check with six zeros on it...and none of them want public sympathy when their performance lags.

football players play a game...a game.

and funny enough...if they dont like random strangers calling them out on twitter for a bad performance.... they can walk away.... go sell cars...maybe become a backhoe operator, earn their living on 40k a year like so many americans do

but they choose to play a game

 

[moosehead]

The thing is, players do things for the community, they donate, they form foundations, they get out there and try to make a difference. Fans seem to ignore that when a guy drops the ball that would have won them their fantasy matchup, or doesn't recover from injury as fast as they'd like. I think it's unfair. Again, not all fans are like this, but I think that someone that dumps on someone just for the sake of being a public figure is kind of a crappy person.

Now, if it's someone like Aldon Smith or someone else that has done something despicable? Have at 'em.

That's true enough, but to be fair, "regular" people do all of that too (although usually on a different scale) - typically that is not a consideration when it comes to my job performance, or compensation... I love HB, I love his leadership on this team, love his community contributions - but from a pure business perspective, his price is too high - in my opinion.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

having a public life was his choice. It comes with the big checks.

Exactly...... If they had Fat-head decals for fortune 500 employees, and people were betting in Vegas (in lieu of the stock market) Those people would catch plenty of flack as well...

I saw Van Halen in their Prime, and went nuts.. A decade or so later, I saw them again, And Eddie was so wasted (and terrible) I wanted to punch him in the face and tell him he owed me 30 bucks..

No one forced you into the spotlight, take the good with the bad.

 

[WisconsinCard]

How many of us have real life experience, with being grossly over-paid... and falling far short of your projected goals, then being asked to take a pay-cut, or get the axe?

"Sorry Sir, I know I missed my projected sales by 80%... But no way in hell am I taking a pay-cut....When they see how good I was years ago....The companies will be lining up to over-pay me, most will disregard how terribly average I was the last few years!"

This happens in sports all the time... Real life? Probably not so much.

I think HB is way underrated on this board, but not in the NFL. You state he fell short of his projected goals, and I say he probably met many of his goals. We look at him and has he lost a step? Sure seems like it, but he is still better than most. He is not the player we watched before the injuries and so many assume he is not a valuable asset. I think he is, and I think the cards and him will work a deal that lowers his cap number but increases his contracts worth.

 

[Ronin]

Gregg Rosenthal
@greggrosenthal

Tyrann Mathieu, here at @NFLNetwork Thursday, said he and agent spoke with Cardinals Thursday. They asked him to take a pay cut.

 

[Ronin]

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

This was expected, but is significant. Would be a large paycut based on what his expected role would be in a new defense. This is why the Honey Badger could be a free agent.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Why not restructure? Why only paycut?

 

[juza76]

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet

This was expected, but is significant. Would be a large paycut based on what his expected role would be in a new defense. This is why the Honey Badger could be a free agent.

How does this Rap know Mathieu role will be not so important in the new defense?

 

[Solar7]

Why not restructure? Why only paycut?

A restructure only pushes back the problem. This is the "out" that was built into the contract for us. If we just move that guaranteed money back, we're going to get hit for all of this no matter what.

Unfortunately.

 

[Ronin]

Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo

Due $11m this year and another $11m in 2019 after earning $21m+ the previous two years. Cards would love to keep the versatile Badger but the numbers have to work for him.

 

[Buckybird]

Why not restructure? Why only paycut?

Because he’s way overpaid for the production!

Imo if they ask him that, it’s means they are prepared to cut him if he doesn’t reciprocate & help the team out.

2017 is likely the last we see of the Badger wearing Cardinal red because I don’t think he’s going to comply. Personally I’d wait until June 1st for cap reasons.