Cards get Adrian Peterson in trade with New Orleans

[MadCardDisease]

Hahahahhaaaaa!

So you’re touting:

Relying on a rookie wr taking an ENORMOUS step up from small school competition in 3rd round,

Resigning one of their own free agents in jones,

Signing an ancient cb who they didn’t intend on relying on considering he was on the bench for the first 6 games,

Moving up in a draft to get a guy who only impacted special teams this year,

And a new ancient kicker and punter

As going for the brass ring?!? Seriously?!? I can only laugh at that list. Particularly in light of them watching Calais, both safeties leave. I think you might need a definition for “sarcasm.”

And just to clarify. You believe that MB, SK and BA had no real intention to win the SB this past season?

 

[daves]

Fair. This board loves its hyperbole. That said, many of us either knew or thought there was a strong possibility.

Agreed.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Let me remind you that the Cardinals had limited cap space since you clearly don't remember. Please explain to me how you would pay for Calais and the two safeties without blowing up the cap? Where would that extra $29M come from?

There was no way to retain Calais. But there was money to retain at least one of the safeties. We kept our powder dry for no reason. And they didn’t really try to upgrade the other cb slot, did they? You can’t seriously convince me that they tried to make at run at it last offseason. No sane person could make that argument with a straight face.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And just to clarify. You believe that MB, SK and BA had no real intention to win the SB this past season?

I think every coach believes it, but do I think Michael and Keim believed they an even an outside shot at the Super Bowl? Not really. And if they did I would have to seriously question their football acumen.

 

[wit3card]

Fair. This board loves its hyperbole. That said, many of us either knew or thought there was a strong possibility.

Yes and there where posts about it in early september about it. And yes some thought Adrian Peterson was only a prize to buy, but it costed us I think a 6th and a 7th rounder or two 6th rounders? Overall at least a 5th rounder on value only on draft day value. Not incoporated maybe 2 wins that without him would have been loses, maybe even 3 (he played very well against the Jags).

In 2018 we will see if AP was worth a 5th rounder and at least the 9th and at worst the 5th pick in the draft. (going up 6 to 10 spots).

So yes we will see if DJ/AD will be at least stron enough to take away that loss in draft potential.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes and there where posts about it in early september about it. And yes some thought Adrian Peterson was only a prize to buy, but it costed us I think a 6th and a 7th rounder or two 6th rounders? Overall at least a 5th rounder on value only on draft day value. Not incoporated maybe 2 wins that without him would have been loses, maybe even 3 (he played very well against the Jags).

In 2018 we will see if AP was worth a 5th rounder and at least the 9th and at worst the 5th pick in the draft. (going up 6 to 10 spots).

So yes we will see if DJ/AD will be at least stron enough to take away that loss in draft potential.

He didn’t even play against the Jags.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And just to clarify. You believe that MB, SK and BA had no real intention to win the SB this past season?

If they did, we have big problems moving forward. Seemed obvious to me that we were punting on the season by not filling glaring holes on a team that was below .500 the season before. Simply adding a kicker/punter wasn’t going to solve the problems of gaping holes at WR/CB/DL.

If they were 100% committed to going for it last year, they could have done any number of things to address those issues. There were plenty of WR options on the FA market... a lot of them taking 1 year deals like Alston Jeffrey. They also could have franchised CC for one year to keep the D up to snuff. Or they could have tried to get a corner instead of simply cutting their starters pay and lucking into Williams being serviceable after they buried him on the bench for the first five games of the year.

No... I think (hope) the brain trust thought maybe we’d be a playoff contender if EVERYTHING broke our way, and Arians blustery butt probably thought they were going to win a Super Bowl... but he thought that the last season when the team fell flat on its face.

 

[Stout]

It wasn't untill August that the WR group really started to be a concern. Up until then it was considered one of the stronger units on the team. But then John Brown never could get healthy. JJ Nelson regressed and couldn't hang onto a ball. Chad Williams still needed to learn behind Fitz. I believe that the Coaches were expecting much more from this group heading into the preseason. The Cardinals couldn't afford a name FA WR and the only WRs worthy of a 1st round pick were gone before the Cardinals first pick.

Tramon Williams was signed July 30th. I think he did a decent job as the #2 CB when he took over in week 6. I blame the coaches for not starting him earlier.

Well that's just not true. Or at least, it was only true for you. There were lots of concerns about Smoke, because we had no idea if he could return to form. Chad Williams...yeah, nobody was counting on him to make the WR corps a strength on this team; even supporters of the pick admitted he wouldn't be an immediate contributor, that he'd have to develop. That left us Fitz and hoping the rest pan out. That's a far, FAR cry from being one of the stronger units on the team.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Well that's just not true. Or at least, it was only true for you. There were lots of concerns about Smoke, because we had no idea if he could return to form. Chad Williams...yeah, nobody was counting on him to make the WR corps a strength on this team; even supporters of the pick admitted he wouldn't be an immediate contributor, that he'd have to develop. That left us Fitz and hoping the rest pan out. That's a far, FAR cry from being one of the stronger units on the team.

You didn't seem too concerned about Smoke during OTAs last May.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/john-brown-feels-100.250267/

Good news.

Hell BA was saying he had 12 NFL caliber WRs during that time period. I don't remember anyone saying it was a major weakness of the team at that time. Yes everyone was looking for Fitz's replacement due to future retirement concerns, but Chad was supposed to spend the year learning from Fitz.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ns-lays-into-arizona-cardinals-wide-receivers

I must've been seeing things back in the spring when I said we had had 12 guys who could play in the NFL," Arians said, via the team's official website. "We might have two."

Those two are future Hall of Famer Larry Fitzgerald and fifth-year pro Jaron Brown. The rest of the group -- John Brown, J.J. Nelson, Brittan Golden, Aaron Dobson, Jeremy Ross, Chad Williams, etc. -- has dealt with either injury or inconsistency during camp

 

[wa52lz]

He didn’t even play against the Jags.

His 20 carries and 4 receptions for 99 total yds beg to differ
http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400951622

 

[Covert Rain]

There was no way to retain Calais. But there was money to retain at least one of the safeties. We kept our powder dry for no reason. And they didn’t really try to upgrade the other cb slot, did they? You can’t seriously convince me that they tried to make at run at it last offseason. No sane person could make that argument with a straight face.

Probably true but having said that the great organizations somehow always seem to find a way to keep their high impact players. Losing Calais was a big blow IMO to absorb. His impact was only highlighted on his new team.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think every coach believes it, but do I think Michael and Keim believed they an even an outside shot at the Super Bowl? Not really. And if they did I would have to seriously question their football acumen.

I Hate to tell you they all believed they had a shot at one more Super Bowl run with Carson, Fitz and BA. You can question the moves they made to achieve success last season, but to think they didn't believe they had a shot at a Super Bowl run is total insanity.

 

[MadCardDisease]

If they did, we have big problems moving forward. Seemed obvious to me that we were punting on the season by not filling glaring holes on a team that was below .500 the season before. Simply adding a kicker/punter wasn’t going to solve the problems of gaping holes at WR/CB/DL.

If they were 100% committed to going for it last year, they could have done any number of things to address those issues. There were plenty of WR options on the FA market... a lot of them taking 1 year deals like Alston Jeffrey. They also could have franchised CC for one year to keep the D up to snuff. Or they could have tried to get a corner instead of simply cutting their starters pay and lucking into Williams being serviceable after they buried him on the bench for the first five games of the year.

No... I think (hope) the brain trust thought maybe we’d be a playoff contender if EVERYTHING broke our way, and Arians blustery butt probably thought they were going to win a Super Bowl... but he thought that the last season when the team fell flat on its face.

I truly believe they were 100% committed. I don't agree with all of the moves that they made to get there but to say they weren't 100% committed to winning is just crazy IMO.

 

[Stout]

lol @MadCardDisease : If you're using that as a rebuttal against me, I think you'll need a SLIGHTLY more telling quote

 

[Stout]

I Hate to tell you they all believed they had a shot at one more Super Bowl run with Carson, Fitz and BA. You can question the moves they made to achieve success last season, but to think they didn't believe they had a shot at a Super Bowl run is total insanity.

Which is why Ouchie, I, and others thought they were nuts.

 

[Covert Rain]

Which is why Ouchie, I, and others thought they were nuts.

I truly believe they thought it was a possibility. Just like I am also sure they also knew this wasn't the same team with Warner that made that magical run. As a fan, I didn't really ever entertain the idea because unlike that Warner team I never felt like this team was at that level.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I truly believe they were 100% committed. I don't agree with all of the moves that they made to get there but to say they weren't 100% committed to winning is just crazy IMO.

Crazy is looking at their atrocious WR group, CB group and doing next to nothing to improve them, while keeping Amos Jones.

You’re making it seem like the Cardinals were picked by a lot of people to win the division... if not be contenders to go to the Super Bowl. That wasn’t the case by an overwhelming majority of the media or some fans here who thought we likely wouldn’t even make the playoffs.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Crazy is looking at their atrocious WR group, CB group and doing next to nothing to improve them, while keeping Amos Jones.

I'm not arguing that keeping Amos Jones and thinking Bethel was good enough to be a starter were smart choices. Nor did I think paying a ton of cash for Gresham was wise. I think pretty much all of us agreed those were crazy choices heading into the season.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I truly believe they were 100% committed. I don't agree with all of the moves that they made to get there but to say they weren't 100% committed to winning is just crazy IMO.

I will go further and say that they thought that they had a 2 year window. Everyone was signed on two year deals.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Crazy is looking at their atrocious WR group, CB group and doing next to nothing to improve them, while keeping Amos Jones.

You’re making it seem like the Cardinals were picked by a lot of people to win the division... if not be contenders to go to the Super Bowl. That wasn’t the case by an overwhelming majority of the media or some fans here who thought we likely wouldn’t even make the playoffs.

The media's record at picking isn't that great honestly. ESPN actually picked us to go 10-6, tied with the Seahawks.

 

[TJ]

A front office comprised of Keim and Mike B. is never going to be anything less than 100% committed to winning and winning right away. The notion that they didn't try or half-assed the season is comical. The 49ers and Browns are teams that fit the model of tanking.

 

[Cheesebeef]

A front office comprised of Keim and Mike B. is never going to be anything less than 100% committed to winning and winning right away. The notion that they didn't try or half-assed the season is comical. The 49ers and Browns are teams that fit the model of tanking.

There can be a middle ground between tanking and going all in. I didn’t see all in last offseason and the results proved that thought wasn’t comical.

 

[MadCardDisease]

You’re making it seem like the Cardinals were picked by a lot of people to win the division... if not be contenders to go to the Super Bowl. That wasn’t the case by an overwhelming majority of the media or some fans here who thought we likely wouldn’t even make the playoffs.

Maybe you have poor memory? Many had the Cardinals making the playoffs with more than 10 wins. Where is this "overwhelming majority" saying the Cardinals were going to suck?


CBS had the Cardinals going 11-5

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...s-every-game-for-every-team-super-bowl-champ/


SI had the Cardinals going 10-6

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/05/10/nfl-2017-projected-team-records


USAToday had the Cardinals going 12-4

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/09/2017-nfl-predictions-award-division-super-bowl-winners-team-records


ESPN had the Cardinals going 10-6

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...le-predicted-records-for-all-32-nfl-teams#NFC W

 

[TJ]

There can be a middle ground between tanking and going all in. I didn’t see all in last offseason and the results proved that thought wasn’t comical.

That's not true. You're either in it to win, or you're tanking, and unlike the NBA, there are few NFL teams who can be seen as tankers. Seattle, Denver, Oakland, Dallas, and others were all-in and came up short. I'd argue that Arizona was more committed than others because it kept signing older players in an effort to win now and plug holes.

You can question the moves that the team made or didn't make, but it has nothing to do with commitment and philosophy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's not true. You're either in it to win, or you're tanking, and unlike the NBA, there are few NFL teams who can be seen as tankers. Seattle, Denver, Oakland, Dallas, and others were all-in and came up short. I'd argue that Arizona was more committed than others because it kept signing older players in an effort to win now and plug holes.

You can question the moves that the team made or didn't make, but it has nothing to do with commitment and philosophy.

Disagree with your absolute terms. Teams can try to be competitive while not going all in because they don’t want to effect a rebuild going forward, especially when it looks like time’s running out. That’s what I believe we did.

As for the teams you mentioned above... they were different from us. All of them had made the playoffs one year previously (sans Denver) and didn’t suffer huge FA losses like we did.

We were a mediocre non-playoff team in 2016 that brought back less talent and failed to address significant holes at WR and CB, even though we went into the year 11 million under the cap. Those are all facts, facts which lead me to believe they HOPED they would be better, but weren’t going all in on the season.