Cards get Adrian Peterson in trade with New Orleans

[schutd]

I guess we will see, right? If we have to expend additional draft capital to move up and get a qb I was right. If we stand pat and a QB falls to us but one drafted higher up ends up being a considerably better qb, I was right. But I don’t suspect any of you to ever admit it. It seems the only ones who ever come on here and give a mea culpa are the realists who get bashed by the koolaiders all the time. I don’t think I’ve ever read a kookaider say, “yup, you were right. I was wrong.”

Ouchie, I feel you. I think the majority of fans feel exactly as you feel.

I as an individual suffer from extreme amounts of empathy. I feel it makes me a very caring and understanding person, but also prevents me from taking a hard stand on issues, because I can so clearly see why others feel the way they do. A complete blessing and curse personality trait.

I look at this issue over and over again, and while I feel like you do, I cannot for the life of me see how someone who is playing the game, or doing the jobs the that FO does could ever, in the moment, during a season, say to themselves, "lets lose this one. Cause it helps the future of the organization." I wish they could. I hate 8 and 8. Passionately.

But the idea that players and coaches and GM's and even owners would, in the heat of battle, perform some sort of tactical retreat while looking toward NEXT YEAR (they save those for next week, or next quarter or next offensive series!)... Man, I just don't see it. Not mid season. Not even pre season. Ask a guy in a contract year to lay down. Eff that. Wasn't it Dansby a few years back who blew up a play at the end of the game to give the Cards one of these so called meaningless wins? Or something? Was pissed about a play call cause he didnt feel it put the team in position to win a meaningless game? That he'd never do that? I can't remember, but you get my point.

You believe what you believe, as an organization, and you stay true to it. Full blast. Regardless. And then you sleep at night knowing your worked your hardest. If you lose a job over it, I think most people would be OK with that.

 

[AZCrazy]

It was Dockett. He even spit on Kerry Rhodes for suggesting it in the huddle.

Can't believe that some would complain that Peterson came in and did too good a job. Huh?

Peterson and Johnson would be an unstoppable backfield if we are really committed to pounding the ball on the ground,
like Wilks intimated. This would be a great move depending on 1) staying healthy and 2) fixing the O Line this offseason.

 

[az jam]

AP was a great running back IMO his career is finished, he just no longer can stay healthy.

 

[Stout]

I feel like a lot of people on here are absolutely petrified of being terrible again. So much so that they're willing for us to do anything to remain average rather than take any risks in order to become a top team. Alex Smith is NOT winning any Super Bowls--not unless our defense is absolutely Ravenesque, and probably not even then. Alex Smith might get us to the playoffs, or to 8-8 (I doubt it for next season, but that's a separate discussion), but that's about his ceiling. And plenty on this board are willing to trade assets to get him--I've even read about a 3rd rounder! So much to offer for mediocrity.

I get it. We were so awful for so long, many posters are scared of us reverting back to it. I'm with Ouchie in that I'd much rather take the time now to address the issues on this roster, rebuild it from the ground up where it needs it, and if we have a really bad year because we didn't tie our future to an average-at-best game manager, then that's not the end of the world. As long as we do this right and limit it to one bad season, it could be a good thing.

Or, if we (the FO) manage to sack up and move for a QBOF and it works out, maybe we don't have to have an awful season. Who knows?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I feel like a lot of people on here are absolutely petrified of being terrible again. So much so that they're willing for us to do anything to remain average rather than take any risks in order to become a top team. Alex Smith is NOT winning any Super Bowls--not unless our defense is absolutely Ravenesque, and probably not even then. Alex Smith might get us to the playoffs, or to 8-8 (I doubt it for next season, but that's a separate discussion), but that's about his ceiling. And plenty on this board are willing to trade assets to get him--I've even read about a 3rd rounder! So much to offer for mediocrity.

I get it. We were so awful for so long, many posters are scared of us reverting back to it. I'm with Ouchie in that I'd much rather take the time now to address the issues on this roster, rebuild it from the ground up where it needs it, and if we have a really bad year because we didn't tie our future to an average-at-best game manager, then that's not the end of the world. As long as we do this right and limit it to one bad season, it could be a good thing.

Or, if we (the FO) manage to sack up and move for a QBOF and it works out, maybe we don't have to have an awful season. Who knows?

I’m ouchie and I endorse this message.

 

[Mainstreet]

I feel like a lot of people on here are absolutely petrified of being terrible again. So much so that they're willing for us to do anything to remain average rather than take any risks in order to become a top team. Alex Smith is NOT winning any Super Bowls--not unless our defense is absolutely Ravenesque, and probably not even then. Alex Smith might get us to the playoffs, or to 8-8 (I doubt it for next season, but that's a separate discussion), but that's about his ceiling. And plenty on this board are willing to trade assets to get him--I've even read about a 3rd rounder! So much to offer for mediocrity.

I get it. We were so awful for so long, many posters are scared of us reverting back to it. I'm with Ouchie in that I'd much rather take the time now to address the issues on this roster, rebuild it from the ground up where it needs it, and if we have a really bad year because we didn't tie our future to an average-at-best game manager, then that's not the end of the world. As long as we do this right and limit it to one bad season, it could be a good thing.

Or, if we (the FO) manage to sack up and move for a QBOF and it works out, maybe we don't have to have an awful season. Who knows?

This is a questionable road to travel. Who is to say how many seasons it takes to rebuild? It may take more than one season.

I do not want a team that commits to a losing. It breeds a losing mentality.

 

[Solar7]

I feel like a lot of people on here are absolutely petrified of being terrible again. So much so that they're willing for us to do anything to remain average rather than take any risks in order to become a top team. Alex Smith is NOT winning any Super Bowls--not unless our defense is absolutely Ravenesque, and probably not even then. Alex Smith might get us to the playoffs, or to 8-8 (I doubt it for next season, but that's a separate discussion), but that's about his ceiling. And plenty on this board are willing to trade assets to get him--I've even read about a 3rd rounder! So much to offer for mediocrity.

I get it. We were so awful for so long, many posters are scared of us reverting back to it. I'm with Ouchie in that I'd much rather take the time now to address the issues on this roster, rebuild it from the ground up where it needs it, and if we have a really bad year because we didn't tie our future to an average-at-best game manager, then that's not the end of the world. As long as we do this right and limit it to one bad season, it could be a good thing.

Or, if we (the FO) manage to sack up and move for a QBOF and it works out, maybe we don't have to have an awful season. Who knows?

I'm certainly afraid of us being awful again. It is absolutely no fun for everyone to be talking about their teams with eagerness for the upcoming season, while you have to sit there and say "Welp, another year where I may as well not even watch, because the outcome is already decided." I'd much rather be mad after a lost game than begrudgingly accept it.

But here's the real thing: I don't want to waste the careers of the extraordinary talent we have on this team currently. I don't want to watch Fitz come back and only have the goal of breaking records while Baker Mayfield struggles to read pass protection and we end up 4-12, but sans a 1st and second rounder next year. I don't want to watch Patrick Peterson and Tyrann Mathieu and Chandler Jones struggle to keep us competitive while the offense has another 3 and out. I don't want to run David Johnson into 8 man fronts because the defense has no reason to be afraid of our rookie that we've forced into action.

Yes, I know we all want sustained success, but to sell our future praying that we're going to hit a home run and place all of the burden of our future success on the back of one kid is just unacceptable to me.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Your disdain for the draft leads me to believe you would rather trade all draft picks for whatever veterans we can get because we know what we are getting there.

Well you don't know me and as usual you're wrong. I actually love the draft and have been to NYC. Watched all the players enter Radio City Music Hall. The draft is my second favorite day of the year.

If you would rather loose games to gamble on the draft, well that is good for you. I'll take the wins and let the chips fall where they may. I would love to play poker with you, if you really like to gamble, I'll have all your chips by the end of the night.

 

[WisconsinCard]

For those of you that enjoyed the 2-3 wins that likely cost us the draft position to optimize the qb position, I analogous it thusly:

You know that you’ve got a decaying wall on your house. You don’t want to face that eventuality because you “want to live in te now” so you keep sparkling it so you can enjoy the short term. Then the wall finally collapses and destroys a portion of your home.

I’d rather admit the issue, tear up the wall and deal with the ugliness now so I can enjoy a perfect house for the long term.

The problem with you analogy is that tearing down the wall is a guaranteed fix. The loosing games for the sake of the draft is not. Hey we have different outlooks on this, it's OK. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong, just different opinions.

 

[Stout]

This is a questionable road to travel. Who is to say how many seasons it takes to rebuild? It may take more than one season.

I do not want a team that commits to a losing. It breeds a losing mentality.

Who said anything about committing to losing? We're talking about building sustained success, which sometimes means you need to take a step backward in order to take two steps forward.

 

[oaken1]

Ouchie, I feel you. I think the majority of fans feel exactly as you feel.

I as an individual suffer from extreme amounts of empathy. I feel it makes me a very caring and understanding person, but also prevents me from taking a hard stand on issues, because I can so clearly see why others feel the way they do. A complete blessing and curse personality trait.

I look at this issue over and over again, and while I feel like you do, I cannot for the life of me see how someone who is playing the game, or doing the jobs the that FO does could ever, in the moment, during a season, say to themselves, "lets lose this one. Cause it helps the future of the organization." I wish they could. I hate 8 and 8. Passionately.

But the idea that players and coaches and GM's and even owners would, in the heat of battle, perform some sort of tactical retreat while looking toward NEXT YEAR (they save those for next week, or next quarter or next offensive series!)... Man, I just don't see it. Not mid season. Not even pre season. Ask a guy in a contract year to lay down. Eff that. Wasn't it Dansby a few years back who blew up a play at the end of the game to give the Cards one of these so called meaningless wins? Or something? Was pissed about a play call cause he didnt feel it put the team in position to win a meaningless game? That he'd never do that? I can't remember, but you get my point.

You believe what you believe, as an organization, and you stay true to it. Full blast. Regardless. And then you sleep at night knowing your worked your hardest. If you lose a job over it, I think most people would be OK with that.

I havent seen the movie Dunkirk but I did see a great scene...

an enlisted and the captain are on the bridge of the ship and the fleet is being wiped out.

the enlisted asks the captain where their reinforcements are
captain says they are over such and such...
enlisted asks, "well, what are they saving them for?"
captain responds, "The next battle"

sometimes you have to make sacrifices in a battle in order to win a war.

The Colts did it a few years back to get Andrew Luck... it was so blatant everybody knew that the Suck for Luck campaign was in full effect... just to save face the owner fired the entire staff after the season was over.
we all knew back in august our staff was on the way out anyway


sadly I am mixed on the issue. It was D90 who refused to allow the other team to score so we could get the ball back and I was in full support of his refusal,... because as a defender stopping them from scoring is your job.
but generals call out orders and soldiers make it happen

 

[Mainstreet]

Who said anything about committing to losing? We're talking about building sustained success, which sometimes means you need to take a step backward in order to take two steps forward.

Mostly the above and this.

As long as we do this right and limit it to one bad season, it could be a good thing.

 

[AZCrazy]

A great quarterback is the only answer. One of those will make coaches look like geniuses, will make teammates better, and will provide options other teams don't have. They don't come available in free agency except once in a generation. Our team has plennnnnnty of talent on it. We need five or six new guys, just like every year. QB is the only one that really matters. Which one of these guys is the next star? Brady and Rodgers and Roethlisberger and Brees and Manning are at the end of their line very soon. (Yep, even Rodgers will be 35 this next season) This coming offseason will be about one thing:

Darnold or Rosen or Allen or Rudolph or Mayfield or Jackson? Everything else is twiddle.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Man wish cards would have made a move for Jimmy g i know the 49ers didn't beat any big teams but he defintaly made them look better.

Hope cards get a shot at Jackson or at worst Allan than a q b like bridgewater Bradford owsweller smith would be ok for a 2 yr or 1 yr gap for a rookie to learn under Smith would be best for that since more success than Bradford and bridgewater. Will be interesting to see,where the cards fall...

 

[daves]

we all knew back in august our staff was on the way out anyway

HUH?!?

...dbs

 

[schutd]

I feel like a lot of people on here are absolutely petrified of being terrible again. So much so that they're willing for us to do anything to remain average rather than take any risks in order to become a top team. Alex Smith is NOT winning any Super Bowls--not unless our defense is absolutely Ravenesque, and probably not even then. Alex Smith might get us to the playoffs, or to 8-8 (I doubt it for next season, but that's a separate discussion), but that's about his ceiling. And plenty on this board are willing to trade assets to get him--I've even read about a 3rd rounder! So much to offer for mediocrity.

I get it. We were so awful for so long, many posters are scared of us reverting back to it. I'm with Ouchie in that I'd much rather take the time now to address the issues on this roster, rebuild it from the ground up where it needs it, and if we have a really bad year because we didn't tie our future to an average-at-best game manager, then that's not the end of the world. As long as we do this right and limit it to one bad season, it could be a good thing.

Or, if we (the FO) manage to sack up and move for a QBOF and it works out, maybe we don't have to have an awful season. Who knows?

Im Schutd, and I endorse this, too. But Ouchie is arguing the idea that purposeful tanking can be part of that equation. Im arguing it can't be, based on human spirit, competitiveness, and integrity.

Go all in, for sure, but some sort of "suck for luck" campaign, instead of trying to continue to push forward for a win, while in the midst of the season is not something I think is logical, though I completely understand the validity of the desire for it.

Trading for Peterson may have been a bad football move, but the argument should be that the FO spent draft capital for a player who is obviously near the end of his career and it didnt do ENOUGH to help with the current season. The end result certainly affects the next season, but what Im saying is the decision to go after AP had NOTHING to do with next season, and I would never expect a FO to make or not make a move with that as their first and foremost consideration.

Only fans do that. Me included.

 

[schutd]

A great quarterback is the only answer. One of those will make coaches look like geniuses, will make teammates better, and will provide options other teams don't have. They don't come available in free agency except once in a generation. Our team has plennnnnnty of talent on it. We need five or six new guys, just like every year. QB is the only one that really matters. Which one of these guys is the next star? Brady and Rodgers and Roethlisberger and Brees and Manning are at the end of their line very soon. (Yep, even Rodgers will be 35 this next season) This coming offseason will be about one thing:

Darnold or Rosen or Allen or Rudolph or Mayfield or Jackson? Everything else is twiddle.

If Stout and Ouchie are correct, with so many holes to fill, getting that QB this year is the wrong call then. We blow off QB, preparing for 2019, and fill other holes now, ensuring we improve our chances for next time. In fact we should go into the season with Gabbert and Stanton and Barkley, so we can properly position ourselves for the following years batch of media-overhyped cant miss prospects. I'm tired of constantly trying to win now.

I absolutely do not adhere to this position, FWIW. But I don't see it as a giant leap to argue it, if we're using the logic of taking a step backward to go forward.

 

[TRW]

Who said anything about committing to losing? We're talking about building sustained success, which sometimes means you need to take a step backward in order to take two steps forward.

Especially when the FO has left the new coach with a bare cupboard in the QB room. If Keim and Crew can pluck a promising QB in the draft and sign a decent "bridge" guy (whoever that may be), then a step back wouldn't be the worse thing to happen.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well you don't know me and as usual you're wrong. I actually love the draft and have been to NYC. Watched all the players enter Radio City Music Hall. The draft is my second favorite day of the year.

If you would rather loose games to gamble on the draft, well that is good for you. I'll take the wins and let the chips fall where they may. I would love to play poker with you, if you really like to gamble, I'll have all your chips by the end of the night.

That’s why I don’t play poker. I know my limitations. And it’s boring.

You might enjoy the draft but you seem to place little value in it as a rebuilding tool. I tend to side with the Jimmy Johnson’s of the world and view the draft as the optimal means of building a team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

HUH?!?

...dbs

I wouldn’t say “knew” but at worst I’d say it was a 50-50 proposition with the down season and BA’s health and age and an older roster.

 

[daves]

I wouldn’t say “knew” but at worst I’d say it was a 50-50 proposition with the down season and BA’s health and age and an older roster.

Maybe YOU believed that, but the majority of people on this board predicted records above .500 back in the preseason, and heck, even in JANUARY it seemed a majority of the players here believed Arians would be back and wanted him back. And even after he retired, some people were making a case for keeping the defensive staff.

So to say that "we all knew back in august our staff was on the way out" is patently false.

...dbs

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[WisconsinCard]

You might enjoy the draft but you seem to place little value in it as a rebuilding tool.

Wrong again, I believe you build the team in the draft, what football fan wouldn't? I believe you take care of your needs in free agency and draft the BPAs.

What I place little value in is the belief that a better pick is a guaranteed stud. As I said before you're more likely to draft a bust than to draft a pro-bowler.

 

[Stout]

Maybe YOU believed that, but the majority of people on this board predicted records above .500 back in the preseason, and heck, even in JANUARY it seemed a majority of the players here believed Arians would be back and wanted him back. And even after he retired, some people were making a case for keeping the defensive staff.

So to say that "we all knew back in august our staff was on the way out" is patently false.

...dbs

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Actually, a lot of us thought it would be a down year, and wondered why we were going for an ill-fated "all in" run. Before the season.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I feel like a lot of people on here are absolutely petrified of being terrible again. So much so that they're willing for us to do anything to remain average rather than take any risks in order to become a top team. Alex Smith is NOT winning any Super Bowls--not unless our defense is absolutely Ravenesque, and probably not even then. Alex Smith might get us to the playoffs, or to 8-8 (I doubt it for next season, but that's a separate discussion), but that's about his ceiling. And plenty on this board are willing to trade assets to get him--I've even read about a 3rd rounder! So much to offer for mediocrity.

I get it. We were so awful for so long, many posters are scared of us reverting back to it. I'm with Ouchie in that I'd much rather take the time now to address the issues on this roster, rebuild it from the ground up where it needs it, and if we have a really bad year because we didn't tie our future to an average-at-best game manager, then that's not the end of the world. As long as we do this right and limit it to one bad season, it could be a good thing.

Or, if we (the FO) manage to sack up and move for a QBOF and it works out, maybe we don't have to have an awful season. Who knows?

I have no problem with moving up in the draft to get a player that the Cardinals really like. My issue is the who idea of tanking for a better draft pick.

However the idea of going to a player like Larry Fitzgerald and asking him to drop a few balls so that the Cardinals might get a better draft pick the following year is disgusting in my mind. Who would do that?

As a season ticket holder for 21 years the idea of going to a game where the team wasn't trying to win is repulsive to me. Why would I go spend my time an money to see a team roll over and play dead. DISGUSTING!

I can't believe that people were OK with tanking 4 games into a season. Even if the Cardinals lost the said 2 games that AP helped to win, would that be enough?

Did the Rams tank their season so they could land a top QB. No they won 3 of their last 4 games to finish the season strong at 7-9. Who did they end up drafting the next year? Their QBOF.

Did the Eagles tank their season in the same year? No they won their final game of the season against the Giants to go 7-9. Who did they draft the following year? Their QBOF.

Would tanking the last game or two games given the Rams or Eagles an opportunity to draft one of those two QBs. Most likely not.

If the Cardinals want a top QB they will have to spend some draft capital to do so. Tanking isn't the answer though!

 

[Stout]

I have no problem with moving up in the draft to get a player that the Cardinals really like. My issue is the who idea of tanking for a better draft pick.

However the idea of going to a player like Larry Fitzgerald and asking him to drop a few balls so that the Cardinals might get a better draft pick the following year is disgusting in my mind. Who would do that?

As a season ticket holder for 21 years the idea of going to a game where the team wasn't trying to win is repulsive to me. Why would I go spend my time an money to see a team roll over and play dead. DISGUSTING!

I can't believe that people were OK with tanking 4 games into a season. Even if the Cardinals lost the said 2 games that AP helped to win, would that be enough?

Did the Rams tank their season so they could land a top QB. No they won 3 of their last 4 games to finish the season strong at 7-9. Who did they end up drafting the next year? Their QBOF.

Did the Eagles tank their season in the same year? No they won their final game of the season against the Giants to go 7-9. Who did they draft the following year? Their QBOF.

Would tanking the last game or two games given the Rams or Eagles an opportunity to draft one of those two QBs. Most likely not.

If the Cardinals want a top QB they will have to spend some draft capital to do so. Tanking isn't the answer though!

I haven't said a thing about tanking.