Cards make Q trade an option

[Duckjake]

Is he the most important piece to the team?
Is he the make or break reason for Warners success?

Scoring average for games Boldin started last year = 27.15
Scoring average for games Boldin did not start = 27.5
Furthermore what was are record without Boldin last year.

I love the guy but he just is not the most important piece to the team anymore, and he is not the make or break reason for Warner's success. Last season proved that without a shadow of a doubt. I would love to keep the guy but I just cant agree with your stance.

Also we still have 3 months to work out a deal with Dansby, and 10 months to get a deal done with Wilson. Why the agnst on losing them already? Sounds like the same angst some had with Warner.

In Boldin's defense two of the games he missed were against Buffalo and Dallas where the Cards scored 71 points yet only passed for 250 and 236 yards respectively. The Cards had 123 yds rushing with 3 TDs against the Bills and 14 of the 30 against Dallas came from special teams.

The Cards did hammer Seattle in week 17 without him though.

 

[joeshmo]

In Boldin's defense two of the games he missed were against Buffalo and Dallas where the Cards scored 71 points yet only passed for 250 and 236 yards respectively. The Cards had 123 yds rushing with 3 TDs against the Bills and 14 of the 30 against Dallas came from special teams.

The Cards did hammer Seattle in week 17 without him though.

I think that isnt in Boldins defense. We still had enough of a passing threat to open up a solid run game. We still had enough of other aspects of the team to still win games and put up points on the board. We found ways to win without him, we proved we can do it without him.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I think that isnt in Boldins defense. We still had enough of a passing threat to open up a solid run game. We still had enough of other aspects of the team to still win games and put up points on the board. We found ways to win without him, we proved we can do it without him.

The only issue I have with this line of thinking involves what is on the field if Fitz is out. Breaston, Urban and Doucet wouldn't sow fear in any opponent at this point in their careers.

 

[AsUdUdE]

I am officially on the trade Boldin to Miami band wagon...

two logical scerenios:

1.) Boldin and a 4th round pick

for Miami 2009 1st (25th), 2nd (56th), 5th (161).

2.) Boldin

for Miami 2009 2nd (56th) and 2010 1st.

Keep him away from NFC contenders, and get fair market vaule...


To me.. I would rather have #2...

 

[joeshmo]

The only issue I have with this line of thinking involves what is on the field if Fitz is out. Breaston, Urban and Doucet wouldn't sow fear in any opponent at this point in their careers.

You can say that with any position on your team though cant you.

If Lyle gets injured who is going to play center. If Hightower gets injured who is going to play RB. If Dansby gets injured who is going to play ILB, if Hayes gets injured who is going to play ILB, if Wilson or Rolle goes down who is going to play safety? You can go all the way down the line.

You are also assuming the Cards wont have other weapons at their disposal (O or D) after a Boldin trade or Day 1 of the season.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I am officially on the trade Boldin to Miami band wagon...

two logical scerenios:

1.) Boldin and a 4th round pick

for Miami 2009 1st (25th), 2nd (56th), 5th (161).

2.) Boldin

for Miami 2009 2nd (56th) and 2010 1st.

Keep him away from NFC contenders, and get fair market vaule...


To me.. I would rather have #2...

Logic, I guess, is in the mind of the conceiver.

What is the logic in giving them a fourth?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You can say that with any position on your team though cant you.

If Lyle gets injured who is going to play center. If Hightower gets injured who is going to play RB. If Dansby gets injured who is going to play ILB, if Hayes gets injured who is going to play ILB, if Wilson or Rolle goes down who is going to play safety? You can go all the way down the line.

You are also assuming the Cards wont have other weapons at their disposal (O or D) after a Boldin trade or Day 1 of the season.

The strength and personality of this team is its passing offence, not who will play this or that position in a pinch on "D".

I assume that whomever they add will not be a Pro Bowl player who may be a Hall of Fame candidate at the end of his career.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Logic, I guess, is in the mind of the conceiver.

What is the logic in giving them a fourth?

lol..maybe..

the logic is, if I am being completely objective, I think the best the Cards are actually going to do is a 1st and 3rd.... for many reasons,but if we start somewhat of a bidding war, and throw in a 4th, I think we can get a 1st AND a 2nd AND keep him out of the NFC..which is my reasoning..

again I think if we trade him to an NFC contender, it is possible we get a better deal, but I would rather get slightly less and trade him to an AFC team... and under that trade, Boldin and a 4th, I believe is enough to get a 1st, 2nd, 5th....

 

[Duckjake]

I think that isnt in Boldins defense. We still had enough of a passing threat to open up a solid run game. We still had enough of other aspects of the team to still win games and put up points on the board. We found ways to win without him, we proved we can do it without him.

I guess that explains why the Cards are keeping James. Without Edge starting they didn't beat any team with a pulse. He comes back and the Cards average 30.4 ppg and 390 yards of offense after failing to get to 30 points in any game not against the Rams (averaging 20.8 in those 6 games) with him on the sidelines.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Is he the most important piece to the team?
Is he the make or break reason for Warners success?

Scoring average for games Boldin started last year = 27.15
Scoring average for games Boldin did not start = 27.5
Furthermore what was are record without Boldin last year.

I love the guy but he just is not the most important piece to the team anymore, and he is not the make or break reason for Warner's success. Last season proved that without a shadow of a doubt. I would love to keep the guy but I just cant agree with your stance.

Also we still have 3 months to work out a deal with Dansby, and 10 months to get a deal done with Wilson. Why the agnst on losing them already? Sounds like the same angst some had with Warner.

Throw all the stats you want at me.

Breaston is not Boldin, Doucet is an unknown.

Boldin's potential is proven in stone, with what he has done on the field. Why risk what we have in hand to for something that is uncertain.

Why plan for the future, when the present is giving you an oppourtunity to reach the desired goal ?

Grant it could be me. It could be that I still don't have the faith in the Cardinals logo. But history has shown that when the Cardinals "build for the future" things go to hell in a handbasket pretty quick.

60 years between championships is a long time. It has been 60 years since this organization has been able to put together a team that could make the playoffs, let alone go to the Superbowl.

If you don't think Anquan Boldin had no part in getting last year's team to where it was I don't know what to tell you. Sorry, there is no way, and no reason to that logic. He is a proven pro bowl WR. You are not going to easily replace that.

If the team didn't make it to the Superbowl last year, if the team didn't invested in the future by not re-signing Warner, maybe there would be some reasoning behind it.

If Larry Fitzgerald gets hurt, what do you do ? What if Larry has an off year, what if without Boldin teams focus on Fitzgerald ? What if Boldin has a HUGE year next year ?





As for re-signing Dansby, Wilson, etc., etc.

Well it too longer than expected to sign Warner. Graves has had over 2 yrs to resign Dansby and has gotten no where. Meanwhile others wait in the wings, waiting to get paid here or somewhere else.

There is no angst. Just the cold hard fact that as of today no player has been extended on the current roster. The "keeping the core" plan hasn't even taken one step in completion. Hardly something to have faith in.

But it is just my opinion. Who is to say trading Boldin doesn't bring us to the Superbowl ?

In my mind, it is the wrong way of thinking about things, and seem backwards, and against the so called "plan" we constantly hear about.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You can say that with any position on your team though cant you.

If Warner goes down Leinart goes in.

If Lutui goes down Elton Brown goes in.

If LaBoy goes down Berry goes in.

If Okeafor goes down Haggans goes in.

If McFadden goes down Hood goes in.

Not big drop off in those positions, IMO. Why produce another position where an injury can doom the team ? Once again, we are talking Superbowl in 2009. Not rebuilding. If the "goal" of the season was different, then I could see the reasoning.

If you are investing in your passing attack then invest in it fully. Don't half arse the situation.

If we are a passing team you need Fitzgerald AND Boldin.

With just one, who and what are you going to rely on? The running game ?

 

[NuttinButTDs]

ESPN’s Sal Paolantonio reports that the Arizona Cardinals are telling prospective suitors for receiver Anquan Boldin that at least a first-round pick and a third-round pick will be needed to get the deal done.

Per Paolantonio, the Eagles, Giants, Jets, and Ravens have shown interest.

 

[Evil Ash]

If Warner goes down Leinart goes in.

If Lutui goes down Elton Brown goes in.

If LaBoy goes down Berry goes in.

If Okeafor goes down Haggans goes in.

If McFadden goes down Hood goes in.

Not big drop off in those positions, IMO. Why produce another position where an injury can doom the team ? Once again, we are talking Superbowl in 2009. Not rebuilding. If the "goal" of the season was different, then I could see the reasoning.

If you are investing in your passing attack then invest in it fully. Don't half arse the situation.

If we are a passing team you need Fitzgerald AND Boldin.

With just one, who and what are you going to rely on? The running game ?

We want to be a well rounded team. Not a running team, not a passing team. A team that does both well.

Asking to put up $20 million on two players on a position like WR makes it difficult to fix your other needs (like say replacements for our 30 year old RB on the downside of his career as well as a protege for Okeafor and Berry ... both over 30)

You make it sound like this team would fall completely apart without Boldin, which is very odd considering that were 4-1 without him last year.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

ESPN’s Sal Paolantonio reports that the Arizona Cardinals are telling prospective suitors for receiver Anquan Boldin that at least a first-round pick and a third-round pick will be needed to get the deal done.

Per Paolantonio, the Eagles, Giants, Jets, and Ravens have shown interest.

So give away Boldin for a Calvin Pace and Buster Davis. Great.

:championship:

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We want to be a well rounded team. Not a running team, not a passing team. A team that does both well.

Asking to put up $20 million on two players on a position like WR makes it difficult to fix your other needs (like say replacements for our 30 year old RB on the downside of his career as well as a protege for Okeafor and Berry ... both over 30)

You make it sound like this team would fall completely apart without Boldin, which is very odd considering that were 4-1 without him last year.

Exactly...I love Boldin, he's been my favorite player since he's been on the team, but for the long term interests of the team it may be best to sell high, especially if we are offered a deal better than that of Roy Williams. If not, have him play out the string with Warner, and move on.

 

[joeshmo]

The strength and personality of this team is its passing offence, not who will play this or that position in a pinch on "D".

Are strength is putting points on the board, how ever possible. If the personality of the team is the passing offense and we still won most games without boldin, then its safe to assume either our personality really isnt passing or Boldin is not improtant to that personality as people are trying to make it.

I assume that whomever they add will not be a Pro Bowl player who may be a Hall of Fame candidate at the end of his career.

Why does it need to be a pro bowl or hall of fame candidate. It cant just be someone who can help the team in other area's to make us stronger. I mean I can understand if Boldin was vital to our team but he just isnt and the points we put up and the games we one last year without him prove that. He just is not a vital cog to our success.

 

[joeshmo]

I guess that explains why the Cards are keeping James. Without Edge starting they didn't beat any team with a pulse. He comes back and the Cards average 30.4 ppg and 390 yards of offense after failing to get to 30 points in any game not against the Rams (averaging 20.8 in those 6 games) with him on the sidelines.

Thats an indictment on Hightower more then anything. Him getting negative yardage on most of his runs hindered everything the O was trying to do. And yes it does explain why they are keeping Edge, because they still dont trust Hightower as a starter.

 

[WildBB]

Thats an indictment on Hightower more then anything. Him getting negative yardage on most of his runs hindered everything the O was trying to do. And yes it does explain why they are keeping Edge, because they still dont trust Hightower as a starter.

Can you imagine a senario where the FO is planning on keeping Edge this season at 5M? They will draft a RB, IMO.

 

[earthsci]

Can you imagine a senario where the FO is planning on keeping Edge this season at 5M? They will draft a RB, IMO.

I firmly believe that the FO is planning on drafting a RB but they won't let go of Edge until the replacement is drafted.

Here's a scenario where we keep Edge IMO. Every time that we pick in the first three rounds all of the RBs that are graded that high or even a little reach are gone. I don't think that Edge would be released until we at least got into camp and the coaching staff got a look at what backs we had, and if one looks like a good change of pace with Hightower, then he would go.

 

[joeshmo]

Throw all the stats you want at me.

Breaston is not Boldin, Doucet is an unknown.

Boldin's potential is proven in stone, with what he has done on the field. Why risk what we have in hand to for something that is uncertain.

Why is it still uncertian? We already proved last year we can do it without him in our super bowl season no less.

Why plan for the future, when the present is giving you an oppourtunity to reach the desired goal ?

Who says its all about the future and not about the present. Presently we put up just as much points with Boldin in the offense as we do with him. Presently are D sucked last year.

Grant it could be me. It could be that I still don't have the faith in the Cardinals logo. But history has shown that when the Cardinals "build for the future" things go to hell in a handbasket pretty quick.

60 years between championships is a long time. It has been 60 years since this organization has been able to put together a team that could make the playoffs, let alone go to the Superbowl.

I fully understand. I was that guy for years. But for my own sanity I just wont complain about things that havent even happened yet (i.e. losing Dansby, Wilson, Boldin for crap, and so on). Why stress about something that wont even happen, see the Warner contract, signing McFadden after he left without a contract, and so on.

If you don't think Anquan Boldin had no part in getting last year's team to where it was I don't know what to tell you. Sorry, there is no way, and no reason to that logic. He is a proven pro bowl WR. You are not going to easily replace that.

Why do you need to replace that. You dont need two pro bowl WR's to win a super bowl. You dont need two pro bowl WR's to get to the super bowl. Heck we didnt need two WR's to get to the super bowl we only needed one.

If Larry Fitzgerald gets hurt, what do you do ? What if Larry has an off year, what if without Boldin teams focus on Fitzgerald ? What if Boldin has a HUGE year next year ?

What if teams focus on Fitz? What do you think teams were doing all of last year and in the playoffs? Teams were not focusing on Boldin last year. In fact I forget which person did it profootballprospectus, footballoutsiders, someone else forget which but Sando in his ESPN blog refrenced it yesterdat again. Anyways in the study of every route he ran and all of his catches team primaraly covered him with LB's, Safeties, and nickel backs in the slot where Fitz primaraly drew the #1 CB and double coverage. Breaston primaraly got the #2 CB. It also showed against top flight CB Fitz actually raised his game where as against top flight CB for Boldin he was primaraly stopped. Here is the refrence from scouts inc, if someone can remember where the article he is refrencing can be found at -

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-8-637/How-trading-Boldin-could-make-sense.html

Teams focusing on Fitz wont matter a thing and he has already proved it. Its why he is the best WR in the NFL and Elite players it doesnt matter much to them. Teams put 8 in the box against Peterson to but he still produces it what makes players great.

What if Boldin has a huge year? Doesnt matter to me. We have seen huge years from him before without much team success. What is are teaming doing thats all I care about.

As for re-signing Dansby, Wilson, etc., etc.

Well it too longer than expected to sign Warner. Graves has had over 2 yrs to resign Dansby and has gotten no where. Meanwhile others wait in the wings, waiting to get paid here or somewhere else.

First of all what others are waiting? Wilson and Boldin are the only ones waiting. Second they have not tried to re-sign Dansby for two years now. They only just started a few weeks ago. They didnt know if he could be a leader or not or be consistent enough so they slapped the tag on him the first time. Then they did it a second time because time between being able to negotiate a long term deal with him and the start of FA was only one week they had to keep their rights to him. So when you say they want to re-sign Dansby and have gotten no where, you need to say that in terms of two weeks not 2 years.

There is no angst. Just the cold hard fact that as of today no player has been extended on the current roster. The "keeping the core" plan hasn't even taken one step in completion. Hardly something to have faith in.

Warner was extended, thats not a step, and there are only 3 others left on the list. Dansby, Wilson, and a Boldin who still has two years left on his deal that he signed himself. Dansby has 3 months to get a deal done and a few weeks after the season before the 2010 free agency period, Wilson a whole season, and Boldin is in no mans land. When you are already complain about lossing players a full year from now thats angst, it isnt cold hard facts until 2010 which is a long ways away.

Also you just cant fiscally keep your whole core together every season, you just cant. There will be change no matter what. Teams that react to that the best are the ones that win.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We want to be a well rounded team. Not a running team, not a passing team. A team that does both well.

Asking to put up $20 million on two players on a position like WR makes it difficult to fix your other needs (like say replacements for our 30 year old RB on the downside of his career as well as a protege for Okeafor and Berry ... both over 30)

You make it sound like this team would fall completely apart without Boldin, which is very odd considering that were 4-1 without him last year.

I would trade Boldin in a second, for Stacy Andrews, a 1st and a 5th.

I would trade Boldin in a second for the Giants best run blocking OLman, Ahmad Bradshaw and a 2nd.

If this club actually did anything to move towards getting a balanced offense then I would be all for it.

But getting a few draft picks, even if a 1st and a 3rd will not be enough concrete insurance that the running game would be "fixed".

At least one proven vet that will help our offense in the running department will be need for me to come close to seeing this as a "for the good of the team" deal.

And even in that situation, my joy of re-signing Warner will go sour the instand Boldin gets traded. What is the point of keeping Warner if you are going to run more play action ? Why not start Leinart, see what you got, and cash in on a QB who is (relatively, based on college and what seen in the NFL) better using the playaction ? Why spend 15 mil a year on a QB for the passing game, and then take his tools away.

Just does not make sense to me.

Let Haley go, Boldin go, Warner go. Resign Dansby, Wilson, and Dockett. In trading Boldin get picks and something to boost the running game. That would have made sense.

But we already lost Haley, kept Warner, now thinking about losing Q. Don't resign Dansby/Wilson/Dockett, and who knows what will happen with the Boldin trade.

I dunno. Doesn't line up in my mind........but maybe that is a good thing.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Also you just cant fiscally keep your whole core together every season, you just cant. There will be change no matter what. Teams that react to that the best are the ones that win.

Agreed.

But you can't let all your talent walk out the door either. That has been proven in the past.

I dunno the whole situation does not sit well with me but that is obvious. I am not saying your view on this doesn't make sense either.

We just disagree on Boldin's value to the club, and his ability/potential.

Graves competitence to "keep the core together".

Not to mention his abilty to draft, which comes into play when you trade a proven player for picks.

 

[joeshmo]

I dunno. Doesn't line up in my mind........but maybe that is a good thing.

I have come to the conclusion I will take the opposite side of everything you say from now on.

 

[john h]

http://www.azcardinals.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2969

I think a Q trade could happen at the table on draft day. Certain teams may be looking for a certain player to be available at thier draft position. If he is not then they could have already have a deal in place with the cards depending on the draft scenerios.

 

[john h]

I am sure they will keep him unless they get an amazing offer for him.

I do not as his value to us will decrease each of the next two years and he will never resign with us. Get while the getting is good. I doubt he will bring what Roy Williams got even though he may be a better player. He still has somewhat of an attitude problem and none of us know just how that big hit he took last year might effect his longevity. I am sure other teams may think the same thing. We need the cap space for a Dansby contract and to me Dansby is much more important to the Cards future than is Q. He will be gone.