Cards not planning go after big names FA

[Shane]

It's not that difficult to understand. It's the sports business philosophy they enunciated when Green was hired and repeated before last year's Free Agency period. And, I for one - think it's the solid, workmanlike approach that is most likely to bring solid returns on the field.

Most likely to bring you 6-10 and 5-11 it seems.

 

[spanky1]

I can't believe all the whining that is going on......just because some calculated comment about not chasing top teir FA's has every one (Stout and Shane being the most vocal) figuring that the Cardinals will pass on each and every FA with a brand name.

I just tuned into the combine and caught Jerry Jones being interviewed by Schefter. He had the following comment to make about FA:

"I learned a long time ago that just because you have money to spend in FA doesn't mean you use all of this asset in any one FA year.....rather, you use it over a number of years to make sure that you are contining to evolve your organization"..........I would tend to respect an owners knowledge of how to build a team to compete each and every year over some message board fanatic.

If any one else caught this interview, they no doubt heard Jones' first comment about the CBA.......he said it's done.....and then back peddaled and said it will be done.

My guess is that all of the posturing from Tags and Upshaw was just that........as I also tend to think that the comments from Graves and Green should be, AT THIS TIME, be taken somewhat tongue in cheek.

 

[Shane]

I can't believe all the whining that is going on......just because some calculated comment about not chasing top teir FA's has every one (Stout and Shane being the most vocal) figuring that the Cardinals will pass on each and every FA with a brand name.

I just tuned into the combine and caught Jerry Jones being interviewed by Schefter. He had the following comment to make about FA:

"I learned a long time ago that just because you have money to spend in FA doesn't mean you use all of this asset in any one FA year.....rather, you use it over a number of years to make sure that you are contining to evolve your organization"..........I would tend to respect an owners knowledge of how to build a team to compete each and every year over some message board fanatic.

If any one else caught this interview, they no doubt heard Jones' first comment about the CBA.......he said it's done.....and then back peddaled and said it will be done.

My guess is that all of the posturing from Tags and Upshaw was just that........as I also tend to think that the comments from Graves and Green should be, AT THIS TIME, be taken somewhat tongue in cheek.

And Jerry Jones opinion or comments have anything to do with this team how?

 

[Stout]

It's not that difficult to understand. It's the sports business philosophy they enunciated when Green was hired and repeated before last year's Free Agency period. And, I for one - think it's the solid, workmanlike approach that is most likely to bring solid returns on the field.

No, a combination of methods will work to build a winning team. The Pats ponied up the cash when they needed to, as well as signing key guys. We've been signing some decent guys lately, but we need to add some real impact guys as well. Berry worked out (lucky we got him the way we approached that FA period). Okeafor is a nice addition, but we need some bigger impact guys. You have to get them from somewhere, and expecting rookies to consistently step in and contribute is a losing formula.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Most likely to bring you 6-10 and 5-11 it seems.

Well... it's "most likely" that had we not lost 16 players over the course of last season, we would have had a better than 5-11 record.

"It seems" that point has been lost on some.

With relatively $15 million to play with, I'll be content with one or two soilid additions to the O-line, the re-signing, of say - Riussell Davis... 2 or 3 first year contributors from the draft... and hopefully a healthier line-up during the upcoming season.

A healthy return to form by Berry and others, growing experience and maturity in a still quite young team... and locking up key assets for years to come is what I hope and expect... No more... no less.

Green and Graves have laid out a plan... and worked to this plan.

Hopefully they don't deviate.

 

[Shane]

Well... it's "most likely" that had we not lost 16 players over the course of last season, we would have had a better than 5-11 record.

"It seems" that point has been lost on some.

With relatively $15 million to play with, I'll be content with one or two soilid additions to the O-line, the re-signing, of say - Riussell Davis... 2 or 3 first year contributors from the draft... and hopefully a healthier line-up during the upcoming season.

A healthy return to form by Berry and others, growing experience and maturity in a still quite young team... and locking up key assets for years to come is what I hope and expect... No more... no less.

Green and Graves have laid out a plan... and worked to this plan.

Hopefully they don't deviate.

Yea here we go again with the injury excuse. Well what about the 1st two games of the year? This team was helathy enough to not get blown out by the Giants and healthy enough to be able to beat a terrible Rams team at home. Did either happen though? NO! Stop making excuses please. We sucked last year. We regressed from a 6 win team to a 5 win team. All with Dennys philosophy firmly in place.

 

[Stout]

With relatively $15 million to play with, I'll be content with one or two soilid additions to the O-line, the re-signing, of say - Riussell Davis... 2 or 3 first year contributors from the draft... and hopefully a healthier line-up during the upcoming season.

Green and Graves have laid out a plan... and worked to this plan.

Hopefully they don't deviate.

15 million in cap, and ALL YOU WANT is one or two solid additions to the O-line? That's it? Wow, you're not asking for much, are you? Assuming we stick with our MO and simply offer straight deals, we'll be paying Davis and 2 FA O-linemen 5 million a year, and sitting tight. Terrible approach to FA. Get a little creative, and those O-linemen cost you 3 mill in cap hit this year. Davis had BETTER not get more than 2-3 mill in cap hit this year. Save 1 mill going into the year for injuries, and that still leaves you AT LEAST 5 mill to play with in FA. That is more than enough to sign James or Alexander (assuming you remain creative in contracts), or go after a few more solid FAs.

Also, your bolded statement is exactly the kind of losing philosophy that will perpetuate more losing. When you expect large contributions from your rookie players, you will lose far, far more than you win. AT MOST, you should expect 1 player from the draft to contribute near starter level. You HOPE more of them can, but you have to realize that rookie draftees take time to develop. Expecting to gain 2-3 first year impact players from the draft is daft.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

15 million in cap, and ALL YOU WANT is one or two solid additions to the O-line? That's it? Wow, you're not asking for much, are you? Assuming we stick with our MO and simply offer straight deals, we'll be paying Davis and 2 FA O-linemen 5 million a year, and sitting tight. Terrible approach to FA. Get a little creative, and those O-linemen cost you 3 mill in cap hit this year. Davis had BETTER not get more than 2-3 mill in cap hit this year. Save 1 mill going into the year for injuries, and that still leaves you AT LEAST 5 mill to play with in FA. That is more than enough to sign James or Alexander (assuming you remain creative in contracts), or go after a few more solid FAs.

Also, your bolded statement is exactly the kind of losing philosophy that will perpetuate more losing. When you expect large contributions from your rookie players, you will lose far, far more than you win. AT MOST, you should expect 1 player from the draft to contribute near starter level. You HOPE more of them can, but you have to realize that rookie draftees take time to develop. Expecting to gain 2-3 first year impact players from the draft is daft.

Coach B., from the PATS is the "loser" who believes you need first year contributions from at least three of your draftees.

We had 16 players out last year. Do you actually think 1-million was sufficient to cover off need during the season?

I'd be interested in seeing you outline some of that "creative contracting", etc. you keep referencing.

However (and you can temper my apprehensions) I get the feeling that what you know about creative accounting is the type that leads to foreclosure.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yea here we go again with the injury excuse. Well what about the 1st two games of the year? This team was helathy enough to not get blown out by the Giants and healthy enough to be able to beat a terrible Rams team at home. Did either happen though? NO! Stop making excuses please. We sucked last year. We regressed from a 6 win team to a 5 win team. All with Dennys philosophy firmly in place.

Well, what about the 14 games after those first two?

(Injuries on both the O and D lines had no affect, I take it.)

 

[Shane]

Well, what about the 14 games after those first two?

(Injuries on both the O and D lines had no affect, I take it.)

Sure they had some affect. But every team in the NFL has injuries. Its a part of the game and cant be used as an excuse. Those first two games against subpar teams were a good indicator of where that season was headed regardless of injuries.

Heck you could argue that losing some of these gusy that we lost was better for the team such as Ross.

 

[Stout]

Well, what about the 14 games after those first two?

(Injuries on both the O and D lines had no affect, I take it.)

The Pats lost just as many games to injury as we did--they were decimated--and still went to the playoffs. The excuses end here.

 

[WildBB]

Coach B., from the PATS is the "loser" who believes you need first year contributions from at least three of your draftees.

We had 16 players out last year. Do you actually think 1-million was sufficient to cover off need during the season?

I'd be interested in seeing you outline some of that "creative contracting", etc. you keep referencing.

However (and you can temper my apprehensions) I get the feeling that what you know about creative accounting is the type that leads to foreclosure.

I think he's towing the line that he want's signings of Bentley and Alexander and whoever else they can get along with them then 5 mid to upper tier starters that would have the same cap hits.

 

[Stout]

Coach B., from the PATS is the "loser" who believes you need first year contributions from at least three of your draftees.

We had 16 players out last year. Do you actually think 1-million was sufficient to cover off need during the season?

I'd be interested in seeing you outline some of that "creative contracting", etc. you keep referencing.

However (and you can temper my apprehensions) I get the feeling that what you know about creative accounting is the type that leads to foreclosure.

Coach B believes in contributions, yes. Contributions can be anything from being a solid special teams contributor to a starter. Is it NICE to get 2-3 starters out of the draft in their rookie years? It's dynamite, yeah. Will it happen? Not very often, and when it does, you're usually in trouble.

Creative contracting is really not that difficult an idea. Instead of offering flat deals of 15 mill, with a 5 mill cap hit, you simply push some of the money off to later years, and take a lesser cap hit this season. It's certainly a risk, but done wisely and with foresight, it's about the only way to succeed in the FA market. It's not rocket science.

As to your bolded statement...shove it up your big fat one, loser. I could say you're a *******, but that would be across the line. I may feel that way in this thread, but I won't come out and say that. You can think all you want about me, but when you write things like the above, it shows how small you are that you need to resort to such insults in this thread. Insult my football knowledge all you want. Don't get personal, small one.

 

[Stout]

I think he's towing the line that he want's signings of Bentley and Alexander and whoever else they can get along with them then 5 mid to upper tier starters that would have the same cap hits.

Now you're getting silly. I've never been that outlandish. We could certainly get Alexander, Bentley, and another quality starter if we wanted to, and if they were willing. We have the money. The players are there. It will boggle the mind if we don't even try to make it work.

 

[WildBB]

Now you're getting silly. I've never been that outlandish. We could certainly get Alexander, Bentley, and another quality starter if we wanted to, and if they were willing. We have the money. The players are there. It will boggle the mind if we don't even try to make it work.

Yea - thats what I meant. You'd rather have three top tier guys or so than more quantity signings of mid to upper tier players - correct?

 

[Redsz]

The Pats lost just as many games to injury as we did--they were decimated--and still went to the playoffs. The excuses end here.

Come on Stout, you can't compare the Cardinals to the Patriots. That is a seasoned team that has won three super bowls over the last few years. The Cardinals are a young team that is still trying to establish itself and doesn't have depth across the board like the Pats do.

Injuries aren't an excuse. They are a reason for how the season went how it did. If you classify injuries as an 'excuse' you are being very unreasonable.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Coach B believes in contributions, yes. Contributions can be anything from being a solid special teams contributor to a starter. Is it NICE to get 2-3 starters out of the draft in their rookie years? It's dynamite, yeah. Will it happen? Not very often, and when it does, you're usually in trouble.

Creative contracting is really not that difficult an idea. Instead of offering flat deals of 15 mill, with a 5 mill cap hit, you simply push some of the money off to later years, and take a lesser cap hit this season. It's certainly a risk, but done wisely and with foresight, it's about the only way to succeed in the FA market. It's not rocket science.

As to your bolded statement...shove it up your big fat one, loser. I could say you're a *******, but that would be across the line. I may feel that way in this thread, but I won't come out and say that. You can think all you want about me, but when you write things like the above, it shows how small you are that you need to resort to such insults in this thread. Insult my football knowledge all you want. Don't get personal, small one.

Wow! Thanks for not calling me a "*******" (whatever that means)... all I was suggesting is that few people, and fewer on this board - have ever been involved in writing contracts. Evidently, given your reaction... you're one of those... and it's somehow a sore point.

Relax! have a stout....

 

[Stout]

Wow! Thanks for not calling me a "*******" (whatever that means)... all I was suggesting is that few people, and fewer on this board - have ever been involved in writing contracts. Evidently, given your reaction... you're one of those... and it's somehow a sore point.

Relax! have a stout....

No, all you did was insult me by saying I have no financial capabilities. While I'm no financial genius, I can read an insult when one is directed at me. You insulted me. I suppose I did so in kind. All straight, IMO, unless you care to retract. No, I've never been involved in writing contracts, but it's far from the financial idiocy you attributed to me.

 

[Stout]

Come on Stout, you can't compare the Cardinals to the Patriots. That is a seasoned team that has won three super bowls over the last few years. The Cardinals are a young team that is still trying to establish itself and doesn't have depth across the board like the Pats do.

Injuries aren't an excuse. They are a reason for how the season went how it did. If you classify injuries as an 'excuse' you are being very unreasonable.

That's all true, but when people start using the injuries as a reason why we didn't win, and then justify not trying hard in FA because of it (because of our injury situation we weren't REALLY that bad a team) then it becomes an excuse.

 

[Stout]

Yea - thats what I meant. You'd rather have three top tier guys or so than more quantity signings of mid to upper tier players - correct?

Your misspelled 'then' really threw me...made it read as, 'and then' rather than 'than'

Wow, I just read the sentence I just wrote, and my head's a-spinnin'.

 

[Shane]

Come on Stout, you can't compare the Cardinals to the Patriots. That is a seasoned team that has won three super bowls over the last few years. The Cardinals are a young team that is still trying to establish itself and doesn't have depth across the board like the Pats do.

Injuries aren't an excuse. They are a reason for how the season went how it did. If you classify injuries as an 'excuse' you are being very unreasonable.

Considering how the team played the 1st two games of the season what was your expectation as far as record following those horrible performances when they were still very healthy?

 

[WildBB]

Considering how the team played the 1st two games of the season what was your expectation as far as record following those horrible performances when they were still very healthy?

As I recall we couldn't run at all (no surprise there) against NY. And the Rams game - wasn't that the one Big moved on and the game ended with us in the Red Zone. It's a game we should have taken and didn't.

 

[WildBB]

Your misspelled 'then' really threw me...made it read as, 'and then' rather than 'than'

Wow, I just read the sentence I just wrote, and my head's a-spinnin'.

Yea I don't know what happened there - but I was "splainin" the position you were taking with wanting 3 upper to high echelon starters. It still might happen.

 

[Redsz]

Considering how the team played the 1st two games of the season what was your expectation as far as record following those horrible performances when they were still very healthy?

I thought they weren't playing up to thier talent level. And maybe some adjustments could be made to change that.

 

[Shane]

I thought they weren't playing up to thier talent level. And maybe some adjustments could be made to change that.

Name me one example in two years under Green where he has shown an ability to make adjustments? Especially at the half? Much less two games into the season?