Cards release Shelton & Diamond

[Trey]

I guess the truth hurts, eh bills phan?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

We signed King last year to a contract for more money than the guy he was signed to backup.

And for the record, Shelton does not make more money than either Big or Ross so he wouldn't be backing up guys who make less than him. He does make MORE than Step, Wells and Brown/Bridges maybe you mean them.

i know that and my post said he'd be making more than 3/5th of the OL

 

[Russ Smith]

Ya, it would really suck if the Bills signed him with NO compensation given to the Cards.

That Denny Green is a hard ass negotiator!

Well the reality is they probably won't sign him. Chicago and Detroit are both teams he'd prefer, he played at Eastern Michigan in college, and he openly said he was interested in Chicago when he first asked to be traded.

I just think it would be funny after TD saying they didn't like the player we were offering, if TD tried to sign Shelton.

It's funny you think the bills WON something here. Basically they need a LT, and they want to get rid of Henry, and so far thanks to TD they've done neither. The Cards needed a RB, and wanted to get rid of Shelton, and they've done both without swapping draft picks or having Shelton rip the organization and threaten a holdout.

Seems to me Green ate Donahoe for breakfast.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's funny you think the bills WON something here. Basically they need a LT, and they want to get rid of Henry, and so far thanks to TD they've done neither. The Cards needed a RB, and wanted to get rid of Shelton, and they've done both without swapping draft picks or having Shelton rip the organization and threaten a holdout.

Seems to me Green ate Donahoe for breakfast.

SHEESH - when you put it into perspective - yeah - Guess we did win on that one.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Congratulations Bills Phan, you're a moron. I'm sure Green is really pissed off. After all he did end up with a younger, faster RB that he had been salivating over since the combine. But I'm guessing he's more pissed off that he didn't end up with Travis Henry (he of less YPC in 2004 than Emmitt freaking Smith) considering all he was offering for the guy was our mediocre backup LT.

 

[Renz]

SHEESH - when you put it into perspective - yeah - Guess we did win on that one.

I'm glad Russ is on our side.

 

[GreenCard]

Watch it bills_phan Green had Donahoe for breakfast and these guys will have you for lunch.

 

[conraddobler]

Well the reality is they probably won't sign him. Chicago and Detroit are both teams he'd prefer, he played at Eastern Michigan in college, and he openly said he was interested in Chicago when he first asked to be traded.

I just think it would be funny after TD saying they didn't like the player we were offering, if TD tried to sign Shelton.

It's funny you think the bills WON something here. Basically they need a LT, and they want to get rid of Henry, and so far thanks to TD they've done neither. The Cards needed a RB, and wanted to get rid of Shelton, and they've done both without swapping draft picks or having Shelton rip the organization and threaten a holdout.

Seems to me Green ate Donahoe for breakfast.

Game, set, match.....

Cue the guys sweeping up the cups and stuff.

 

[seesred]

Hey just spoke with Green. He said that Billsphan is correct we missed out on a great RB and they missed out on a lineman that they don't need and now will get for nothing. Yes sir he said to me "we are numb nuts over here". Ain't that right JJ? We shouldn't be allowed in our offices, (did anyone bring my other rod and reel?). How is the beer, cold? Throw over one for me. Yup it just goes to show you how tough those mothers in snowy Buffalo can be. Hey I got a bite.

GBR
40
In Green we trust

 

[Redheart]

Wow...

I come looking for bills-phan and all I find is shreaded meat.

 

[spanky1]

Ya, it would really suck if the Bills signed him with NO compensation given to the Cards.

That Denny Green is a hard ass negotiator!

Let's see what the Bills get for Henry before you start making statements like this

 

[BigDavis75]

Aside from who won in this deal, I'm pretty pissed. I mean, we didn't get anything for Shelton, not even 7th. I'm not against getting rid of him at all, but was no one even willing to trade a 7th? The only reason for not trading him would be that as part of the deal we would have to pay some of his salary or something like that. On the other hand, I'm glad he will be almost completely off the books in 2006. Our cap is looking really good for 2006.

 

[Russ Smith]

Aside from who won in this deal, I'm pretty pissed. I mean, we didn't get anything for Shelton, not even 7th. I'm not against getting rid of him at all, but was no one even willing to trade a 7th? The only reason for not trading him would be that as part of the deal we would have to pay some of his salary or something like that. On the other hand, I'm glad he will be almost completely off the books in 2006. Our cap is looking really good for 2006.

To get value we would have had to trade him last year instead of benching him and at the time Green apparently thought he had a shot at the playoffs and figured he ought to hang onto LJ in case AC bombed out.

I would imagine in hindsight he wishes we'd traded him last year, but there's also the matter of an overweight player coming off 2 surgeries and being benched not having full market value.

I'd have preferred to keep him at a lower salary, hell we have the caproom to keep him at his current salary, but he's not Green's kind of player so this was inevitable.

 

[Russ Smith]

Let's see what the Bills get for Henry before you start making statements like this

Cmon Spanky I'm sure there's some team out there willing to trade a starting LT or a first round pick for Henry.

TD is going to be lucky to get much more than that 5th the Titans offered, last year of his contract, 2 injuries the last 2 years, openly stating he'll hold out all year if he's not traded, they just have zero leverage.

If I were henry I would make it clear I want to play, won't be a headache to sign to a new deal, at least that MIGHT entice someone. AS it stands now he's shooting himself in the foot by trying to force Buffalo to trade him, he's almost forcing them to either cut him, or let him hold out.

 

[joeshmo]

Aside from who won in this deal, I'm pretty pissed. I mean, we didn't get anything for Shelton, not even 7th. I'm not against getting rid of him at all, but was no one even willing to trade a 7th?

No one was going to trade for an average OT at the price tag of $3 mill + Player/Draft pick. Especially when no one has 3 mill. to spend.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

LMAO!!!

Wow Bills Phan returns, what happend to you druing the past month Phan? I think you stayed away because you belive TD screwed up and you did not want to take your lumps here.

Now LJ is cut and your back? Make sure when another team gets him and the Bills do not that you come back and get whats coming to you.

LJ will not go to Bills after organization publicly trashed him IMO. Bills have about 6 or 7 teams to contend with even if he clears waivers.

He will sign for under 2mil per,making him a bargain considering he could start on atleast 1/2 teams in NFL.

 

[Redheart]

...He will sign for under 2mil per,making him a bargain considering he could start on atleast 1/2 teams in NFL.

Wow.

If what you say is true, then Denny really punished LJ for not buying in to the system and coming in fat and playing at 3/4 speed.

I guess our Coach really does have a hammer that works on million-dollar-babies.

 

[bills_phan]

Watch it bills_phan Green had Donahoe for breakfast and these guys will have you for lunch.

Green looks like he had more than Donahoe for breakfast.

 

[bills_phan]

Well the reality is they probably won't sign him. Chicago and Detroit are both teams he'd prefer, he played at Eastern Michigan in college, and he openly said he was interested in Chicago when he first asked to be traded.

I just think it would be funny after TD saying they didn't like the player we were offering, if TD tried to sign Shelton.

It's funny you think the bills WON something here. Basically they need a LT, and they want to get rid of Henry, and so far thanks to TD they've done neither. The Cards needed a RB, and wanted to get rid of Shelton, and they've done both without swapping draft picks or having Shelton rip the organization and threaten a holdout.

Seems to me Green ate Donahoe for breakfast.

Whatever, you make it sound like the Cards would not have made out well by not HAVING to pick a RB in the 1st two rounds. Had they swapped picks like Buffalo wanted, they could have had their CB at #1, another NEED at #2 and their starting running back all in the 1st two rounds. Is this team now so complete that another 2nd round talent would have been meaningless? I didn't realize they were just 2 players away from the Super Bowl.

All Arizona was offering was LJ Shelton, who the Bills can have for NOTHING but a contract, and probably less than the $3 million per that the Cards were being fleeced for. The truth is more likely that Buffalo would rather stick with what they have rather than even pursuing Shelton at this point - but the option is certainly there. Of the two players mentioned in this failed trade, only one is still of any value whatsoever to his team, and it's not the recently cut LJ Shelton. I can't see how any reasonable person can claim that the Cards gained anything by not getting anything for their former 1st round pick.

 

[Russ Smith]

Whatever, you make it sound like the Cards would not have made out well by not HAVING to pick a RB in the 1st two rounds. Had they swapped picks like Buffalo wanted, they could have had their CB at #1, another NEED at #2 and their starting running back all in the 1st two rounds. Is this team now so complete that another 2nd round talent would have been meaningless? I didn't realize they were just 2 players away from the Super Bowl.

All Arizona was offering was LJ Shelton, who the Bills can have for NOTHING but a contract, and probably less than the $3 million per that the Cards were being fleeced for. The truth is more likely that Buffalo would rather stick with what they have rather than even pursuing Shelton at this point - but the option is certainly there. Of the two players mentioned in this failed trade, only one is still of any value whatsoever to his team, and it's not the recently cut LJ Shelton. I can't see how any reasonable person can claim that the Cards gained anything by not getting anything for their former 1st round pick.

So let's get this straight, Donahoe the genius is so smart he knows he can get Shelton for nothing, yet it never occurred to him that he might try telling Shelton we'll trade for you, but you have to agree to restructure before we deal? That way he gets a LT, for less money, and doesn't have to compete with other teams for his services. Seems pretty obvious, if Shelton's salary was the problem, ask him to take a paycut?

The Cards got a RB who IMHO will be as good or better than Henry. He's got far less wear and tear on his body, his running style doesn't lend itself to injury as much as Henry's does (he's had a serious neck injury and 2 fairly serious leg injuries in his career already). Arrington is younger, faster and a better fit for Green's offense. Henry is good, never questioned that, but he makes too much money for a guy coming off 2 injury years, he's in the last year of his contract, and if you look at his history you can almost BANK that he's going to be a problem to resign.

Travis Henry is no dummy(well he is but in a different sense), he saw how much money Lamont Jordan got from the Raiders, he was drafted the same year as Jordan(after him), he gained far more yards than Jordan(because of Curtis Martin) and he's very likely going to ask for a contract as good or better than what Jordan got. Anybody think the Cards were going to fork over near that much for Henry when they can draft their own RB for a LOT less money? If the Cards had swapped picks one of the guys we picked might not have been there.

The only way the Cards were ever going to do that deal before the draft was Henry for Shelton period. During the draft if Arrington had been gone, Donahoe MIGHT have gotten Green to swap picks to make that deal, can't say for sure don't have a hotline to Green afterall.

But the outcome is pretty hard to dispute, the Cards have their RB(and cheaper than Henry) they unloaded Shelton without him becoming a problem and damaging the reputation of anybody, they only thing they didn't get was something for Shelton. Buffalo didn't get their LT, they haven't traded Henry, their best offer is a 5th rounder, Henry skipped minicamp, repeated he won't play for Buffalo this year. How can you look at the outcome of this and think because Shelton was cut, Donahoe was smart?

Even if you do sign Shelton he'll probably cost more due to competition than he would have cost if Donahoe had just demanded he take a paycut or no trade.

 

[Stout]

The truth is more likely that Buffalo would rather stick with what they have rather than even pursuing Shelton at this point - but the option is certainly there.

Shelton > converted TE OR converted C

Teams who would like Shelton > Buffalo

That's the basics, Bills phan. Pretty simple.

 

[bills_phan]

So let's get this straight, Donahoe the genius is so smart he knows he can get Shelton for nothing, yet it never occurred to him that he might try telling Shelton we'll trade for you, but you have to agree to restructure before we deal? That way he gets a LT, for less money, and doesn't have to compete with other teams for his services. Seems pretty obvious, if Shelton's salary was the problem, ask him to take a paycut?

Who the hell do you think is going to sign this guy this far into free agency for $3 million per year? There's no way he gets that much now, so whoever signs him will likely get him cheaper than if they had traded for him.

The Cards got a RB who IMHO will be as good or better than Henry. He's got far less wear and tear on his body, his running style doesn't lend itself to injury as much as Henry's does (he's had a serious neck injury and 2 fairly serious leg injuries in his career already). Arrington is younger, faster and a better fit for Green's offense. Henry is good, never questioned that, but he makes too much money for a guy coming off 2 injury years, he's in the last year of his contract, and if you look at his history you can almost BANK that he's going to be a problem to resign.

The thing about rookies is, YOU NEVER KNOW. Arrington doesn't have Kijana Carter's potential.

You're also ignoring the player you could have picked with your 2nd if you had aquired Henry and not had to take a RB with that pick.

Travis Henry is no dummy(well he is but in a different sense), he saw how much money Lamont Jordan got from the Raiders, he was drafted the same year as Jordan(after him), he gained far more yards than Jordan(because of Curtis Martin) and he's very likely going to ask for a contract as good or better than what Jordan got. Anybody think the Cards were going to fork over near that much for Henry when they can draft their own RB for a LOT less money? If the Cards had swapped picks one of the guys we picked might not have been there.

Every worthwhile player will get paid eventually. If your draft picks are any good they will get paid down the line as well. I guess your whole point depends on Arrington being a success in the NFL.

The only way the Cards were ever going to do that deal before the draft was Henry for Shelton period. During the draft if Arrington had been gone, Donahoe MIGHT have gotten Green to swap picks to make that deal, can't say for sure don't have a hotline to Green afterall.

And instead they got nothing for Shelton.

But the outcome is pretty hard to dispute, the Cards have their RB(and cheaper than Henry) they unloaded Shelton without him becoming a problem and damaging the reputation of anybody, they only thing they didn't get was something for Shelton. Buffalo didn't get their LT, they haven't traded Henry, their best offer is a 5th rounder, Henry skipped minicamp, repeated he won't play for Buffalo this year. How can you look at the outcome of this and think because Shelton was cut, Donahoe was smart?

And once again you're ignoring that potential 2nd round pick that they could have used on another need position. All reports indicate that Buffalo didn't trade for Shelton because they didn't think he was starting material, didn't think he was worth what he was getting paid and didn't think he was good value for Henry. One guy was cut, the other was not. I fail to see how trading for Shelton suddenly makes the Bills' offensive line a much better offensive line.

Even if you do sign Shelton he'll probably cost more due to competition than he would have cost if Donahoe had just demanded he take a paycut or no trade.

Again, who has the money to pay this guy $3 million per year? Should he sign for anything less, your whole point is out the window. Players restructure - they rarely, if ever, give money back.

 

[JeffGollin]

Things must be either really horrible or really boring over there in Bills Country for Bills Phan to spend so much time trolling on our team's message board picking through the trash heap of broken dreams that will never be.

Yo dude, the rookies are working out for Mularkey! Mary Amthor no longer has snowstorms to get excited about on the Erie CBS outlet. Black Fly season is nearly over. Muskies are biting in Ontario, Lake Erie and the Finger Lakes.

There's better things to do with your time than spend it over here. (Unless, of course, you want to convert).

 

[Russ Smith]

Who the hell do you think is going to sign this guy this far into free agency for $3 million per year? There's no way he gets that much now, so whoever signs him will likely get him cheaper than if they had traded for him.


The thing about rookies is, YOU NEVER KNOW. Arrington doesn't have Kijana Carter's potential.

You're also ignoring the player you could have picked with your 2nd if you had aquired Henry and not had to take a RB with that pick.


Every worthwhile player will get paid eventually. If your draft picks are any good they will get paid down the line as well. I guess your whole point depends on Arrington being a success in the NFL.


And instead they got nothing for Shelton.


And once again you're ignoring that potential 2nd round pick that they could have used on another need position. All reports indicate that Buffalo didn't trade for Shelton because they didn't think he was starting material, didn't think he was worth what he was getting paid and didn't think he was good value for Henry. One guy was cut, the other was not. I fail to see how trading for Shelton suddenly makes the Bills' offensive line a much better offensive line.


Again, who has the money to pay this guy $3 million per year? Should he sign for anything less, your whole point is out the window. Players restructure - they rarely, if ever, give money back.

Never once did I say anybody was going to pay Shelton 3 million, my whole point is that if you trade for him, you can dictate, this is what we'll pay you take it or leave it. That's why the Cards gave Shelton permission to talk to other teams about trades, what do you think Shelton and his agent were doing telling the Bears and Bills which players they should trade? They were talking contract with other teams, presumably all of whom wanted him to take a paycut.

Players get cut and sign with the same team, for less money, paycuts aren't common but they do happen when a guy goes from starter to backup. Of course Shelton would undoubtedly start in Buffalo at LT so maybe that's why no deal went through, he didn't want to take backup money knowing he'd be their starting LT?

I realize the Cards could have had a player in round 2 instead of ARrington, quite honestly the one guy in round 2 after Arrington who immediately jumps out at me is Justin Miller, but the Cards got Green in the next round anyways.

So if we take your deal we get Henry, and Justin Miller but in round 3 we're choosing from Everett, Ellison from Missouri, hell I'd argue none of the players taken between 75 and 95 were clearly better than Blackstock who we took at 95. Had we swapped 3rds with Buffalo we get Henry, Miller and let's say Ellison, maybe Adam Snyder.

By not making the deal we get Arrington and Green. one less player, but also less money on Henry and again given Henry's history he's likely either a 1 year rental player, or a guy who's going to demand big money to stay. So a year from now we're talking Arrington and Green vs Miller and Ellison or Snyder, I'll stick with what we got.

Buffalo could have had LJ for less money on a more than one year deal, now they have to compete with other teams to get him.