Cards strike out at QB

[RON_IN_OC]

I don't see him leaving but maybe it's just because I don't want him to. Everyone talks about his age but Pete Carroll is the same age, coughlin even older

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BA will die in the coach's chair. He waited so long to be a HC, he's not going anywhere. It's just how he's wired.

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[Jetstream Green]

As a front office you sure the hell do not look at success stats at the position depending on round when selecting a QB but you look at the man. And the way universities have become a business and let just about anyone freaking graduate, where the prestige of a institution's name is becoming less important, where the universities which used to get the tar beat out of him are now getting the same athletes as the top tier programs are... your QB of the future could come from any round, from any place

 

[Cardiac]

As a front office you sure the hell do not look at success stats at the position depending on round when selecting a QB but you look at the man. And the way universities have become a business and let just about anyone freaking graduate, where the prestige of a institution's name is becoming less important, where the universities which used to get the tar beat out of him are now getting the same athletes as the top tier programs are... your QB of the future could come from any round, from any place

Nice in theory but it simply isn't the case. I'm not a stat guy but I don't ignore them. Look at how many SB QB's were drafted #1 overall and in the top 5 and then in rd 1. It's staggering and that's with the outliers that are Brady and Montana.

When you look at the man it determines what you think of his skill set and that determines what round he goes in and how high.

 

[football karma]

I suspect the Cards decided on one or maybe two of the QBs as having starting QB potential


And when the Bears, Chiefs and Texans lost their minds and gave up multiple picks for QBs that pre-draft everyone rated as maybeeeeee mid-first round at best-- QB was out the door.

It happens

 

[TheCardFan]

The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:

1st Round - QB (63%)

Ok...I will play. You are basing your position on one guys article on the Chiefs website. He researched 10 years (2005-2014) and his criteria: "I did not distinguish superstars from regular starters. The determination of a starter comes from whether the player started at least half of their career."

27 QB's were drafted in round 1 from 2005-2014. 63% would mean that 17 became starters for 1/2 their career. Most of these guys had very poor careers, so I wouldn't use that criteria to judge. I am using franchise QB criteria because all QB's drafted in round one get their chance to start and many fail...they would make this dude's list.

2005 - Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, Aaron Rodgers
2006 - Vince Young, Matt Leinart, and Jay Cutler
2007 - Jamarcus Russell and Brady Quinn
2008 - Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco
2009 - Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, and Josh Freeman
2010 - Sam Bradford and Tim Tebow
2011 - Cam Newton, Jack Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder
2012 - Andrew Luck, Robert Griffen, Tannehill, Brandon Weeden
2013 - EJ Manual
2014 - Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater

1) You find 17 out of these 27 guys that were worth a #1 pick.

2) My argument has always been outside of the top 3-5 picks in round 1, the biggest bust potential and harm to your franchise is in round 1 from 6-32. In this case, only 4 QB's (Rodgers, Cutler, Tannehill, and Flacco) out of 21 (quick math) drafted after pick 5 (2005-2014) have been franchise QB's....19%. That is a big difference vs 63%.

Here is the link to draft history...you can re-search it yourself:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

 

[Mr Rogers]

If the cards really, REALLY, like a QB in next years draft, it's going to be expensive to move up to get them. Like Redskins trade for RGIII expensive. I think they are willing to do it too.

 

[juza76]

If the cards really, REALLY, like a QB in next years draft, it's going to be expensive to move up to get them. Like Redskins trade for RGIII expensive. I think they are willing to do it too.

U must do it if u find the one u like and has all the parameters u want in a franchise qb
I hope this organization doesnt think they can find a free agent as carson palmer replacement
Good qb doesnt hit the free agents market

 

[juza76]

There are 3 great prospects next season

Darnold
Allen
Rosen
Maybe jarret stidham

We can find a trade partner

 

[Cardiac]

Ok...I will play. You are basing your position on one guys article on the Chiefs website. He researched 10 years (2005-2014) and his criteria: "I did not distinguish superstars from regular starters. The determination of a starter comes from whether the player started at least half of their career."

27 QB's were drafted in round 1 from 2005-2014. 63% would mean that 17 became starters for 1/2 their career. Most of these guys had very poor careers, so I wouldn't use that criteria to judge. I am using franchise QB criteria because all QB's drafted in round one get their chance to start and many fail...they would make this dude's list.

2005 - Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, Aaron Rodgers
2006 - Vince Young, Matt Leinart, and Jay Cutler
2007 - Jamarcus Russell and Brady Quinn
2008 - Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco
2009 - Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, and Josh Freeman
2010 - Sam Bradford and Tim Tebow
2011 - Cam Newton, Jack Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder
2012 - Andrew Luck, Robert Griffen, Tannehill, Brandon Weeden
2013 - EJ Manual
2014 - Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater

1) You find 17 out of these 27 guys that were worth a #1 pick.

2) My argument has always been outside of the top 3-5 picks in round 1, the biggest bust potential and harm to your franchise is in round 1 from 6-32. In this case, only 4 QB's (Rodgers, Cutler, Tannehill, and Flacco) out of 21 (quick math) drafted after pick 5 (2005-2014) have been franchise QB's....19%. That is a big difference vs 63%.

Here is the link to draft history...you can re-search it yourself:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

So we agree that the chances of finding an Elite QB is at best next to impossible. My point is that the odds are far better when said QB is drafted in the top 5. About 5 years ago I researched every QB who was in a SB and the vast majority of them were 1st overall picks in the draft. Then another chunk of SB QB's were taken in the top 5. Then another chunk were in the 1st rd.

I can't find my research as it was a different computer and again about 5 years ago. Then factor in you have the outliers that are Brady, Montana and Warner and that lowers the hit rate for non 1st rd QB's dramatically.

Some organizations like to continually take flyers on later rd QB's and SK has said he would like to do that as well. I'm okay if the Cards do that this upcoming year but IMO this was not the year to do it. Hey, I play the lottery myself so I can't expect SK not to do it either.

 

[Skumbag]

Cousins, please!

 

[TheCardFan]

So we agree that the chances of finding an Elite QB is at best next to impossible. My point is that the odds are far better when said QB is drafted in the top 5.

100% agree.

You have to draft them very early in round 1 (top 5) or its a crap shoot thereafter.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Cousins, please!

Cousins is mediocre and since he his gifted to play in what still is the NFC Least, I mean the East, in a NFC which was mediocre, people are getting the idea he is a good QB. I saw a few of his games. I saw where he looked like dinky doo against us when pressure was applied. No to Cousins

 

[Shane]

I don't see him leaving but maybe it's just because I don't want him to. Everyone talks about his age but Pete Carroll is the same age, coughlin even older

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Belichick Is a year older too

 

[Solar7]

People are harping on the top 5 picks providing the best QB play... While that's true, and great, we are not going to have a top 5 pick.

This is a team built for the playoffs now. Quarterback needy teams do not drop out of the top 5 to let playoff teams take sure fire prospects, and the closest we're going to get is by mortgaging our ENTIRE future on a guy who hasn't thrown a pass in the NFL.

Imagine how bad it's going to be in Arizona for half a decade if we find out we've drafted the next RG3 or Leaf, and given up an entire draft for it, along with the top pick in next year's.

I mean, the writing is on the wall. We have to do this. We have to sell the house because we spent too much money on house upgrades. Doesn't mean I'm not mad about it.

 

[Southpaw]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/w...g-until-2018-to-find-their-next-franchise-qb/

• Why did North Carolina’s Mitch Trubisky start just 13 games?
• Will Clemson’s Deshaun Watson’s lack of NFL throws in college impact his development?
• Is Texas Tech’s Patrick Mahomes a reckless gunslinger?
• Why did Cal’s Davis Webb transfer after losing his job to Mahomes at Texas Tech and can he translate his skills from a spread to the NFL?
• Why was Notre Dame’s DeShone Kizer so inconsistent?

“There are three guys for sure next year who would go ahead of all these guys ,” the AFC personnel director said.

Trubisky started only 13 games because Larry Fedora "liked Marquise Williams better.

"
Marquise Williams, who started over Trubisky in 2014 and 2015, wasn’t much of a pro prospect and failed to stick on an NFL roster after going undrafted last year. But consider this timeline:

2013: Trubisky arrives on campus, and the plan is to redshirt him. North Carolina begins the season 1-5 before fifth-year senior quarterback Bryn Renner suffers a season-ending injury. The decision is made to preserve Trubisky’s redshirt and start Williams, who leads North Carolina to five consecutive wins and a victory over Cincinnati in the Belk Bowl.

2014: Riding that second-half surge, Williams is solidly North Carolina’s quarterback. While the Tarheels go 6-7, Williams does well in plenty of those losses (like throwing for 303 yards and rushing for 132 in a gouging of Notre Dame’s defense). Trubisky, in his first college action, completes 53.8 percent of his passes with five touchdowns and four interceptions.

2015: North Carolina goes 11-1 in the regular season, comes close to beating Clemson in the ACC title game and finishes with its highest win total since 1997. While Trubisky completed 85 percent of his passes and threw six touchdowns against no interceptions, Williams throws for 3,068 yards with 24 touchdowns and 10 interceptions, and rushes for 948 yards and 13 touchdowns.

“That success we had as a team with Marquise made it hard for us to pull him out of the lineup,” Heckendorf said. “And I think if (Williams’ success in 2013) hadn’t happened, there may be a completely different conversation. It was not for a lack of talent, it was not because he wasn’t capable, but it’s hard to take a guy who had the success — not only as the team winning but individually — as Marquise had and put him on the bench for an unproven commodity.”

It wasn’t that North Carolina coaches didn’t know what they had in Trubisky, who impressed Heckendorf when he had those limited chances in 2014 and 2015."

Fire Larry Fedora.

 

[Bodha]

I dont consider it a strikeout. There were no QBs worth wasting a pick on, so they didnt force it. I really liked that.



CB, on the hand, dont get me started.

CB - arguably deepest draft position.
CB - #1 need going into the draft

outcome: zero CBs

This is a position we shouldve forced at some point just out of dire necessity.

 

[chickenhead]

BA is not here for a rebuild (and I think SK will get the opportunity to lead one post-BA. No sense in the coach and front office being divided at this point.

BA has Palmer for at least this year and he likes Stanton as the backup. I too wish we had a possible QBOF as #2 but don't think you use a high pick on one unless you really think you are drafting your future. Drafting Reddick to solidify a pretty fearsome D makes a lot of sense in the near term.

The "next year's crop is better" mentality cannot seem very conservative, but a miss at QB this year could be very costly. I'm not sure having someone ride the bench under Palmer only to have to keep looking a couple years from now is a bad scenario.

 

[juza76]

BA is not here for a rebuild (and I think SK will get the opportunity to lead one post-BA. No sense in the coach and front office being divided at this point.

BA has Palmer for at least this year and he likes Stanton as the backup. I too wish we had a possible QBOF as #2 but don't think you use a high pick on one unless you really think you are drafting your future. Drafting Reddick to solidify a pretty fearsome D makes a lot of sense in the near term.

The "next year's crop is better" mentality cannot seem very conservative, but a miss at QB this year could be very costly. I'm not sure having someone ride the bench under Palmer only to have to keep looking a couple years from now is a bad scenario.

If palmer get injured with stanton we have no chances or we have a chance for a top 5 pick in the next year draft
Is one of the most inaccurate passer in the nfl
I hope dysert will have a good show off in the preaseason

 

[unseenaz]

We didn't strike out, there were no QBs worthy of taking especially when we were drafting. If you traded up for Watson or whoever you liked, The rest of our draft hall would've sucked, which almost assuredly would've meant that we suck this season. There were no QB is worth that IMO

 

[az jam]

I never said we should trade up in the first round for one of the 3 Qbs. I feel we should have taken a qb during the draft to develop and learn under Palmer this year. Why not take Webb, Dobbs or Peterman on the 3rd (or even later) instead of reaching for WR Chad Williams. So, perhaps next year we will draft a qb who can sit and learn under Stanton our starter in 2018.

 

[TRW]

I don't think any of the QBs this draft are all that special. It depends so much on the system they are drafted in and if it "clicks" with them and the HC/OC. For instance, if a kid gets stuck with a Jeff Fisher type coach, he's doomed.

 

[TJ]

Name them please & how are you sure?

Allen, Darnold, and Rosen, barring injury, should be Top 10 picks. I know this because these three are accurate throwers from the pocket and aren't dependent on their feet so much as others. Lamar Jackson should also be a mid-to-late first round pick

It is also possible to see guys like Luke Falk and Jake Browning play their way into the first or second round.

I would take any of the six listed above over Mahomes, Tribuski, et al, for the Cardinals.

 

[juza76]

Allen, Darnold, and Rosen, barring injury, should be Top 10 picks. I know this because these three are accurate throwers from the pocket and aren't dependent on their feet so much as others. Lamar Jackson should also be a mid-to-late first round pick

It is also possible to see guys like Luke Falk and Jake Browning play their way into the first or second round.

I would take any of the six listed above over Mahomes, Tribuski, et al, for the Cardinals.

What about Jarret Stidham, Auburn qb transferred from Baylor

 

[DVontel]

Allen, Darnold, and Rosen, barring injury, should be Top 10 picks. I know this because these three are accurate throwers from the pocket and aren't dependent on their feet so much as others. Lamar Jackson should also be a mid-to-late first round pick

It is also possible to see guys like Luke Falk and Jake Browning play their way into the first or second round.

I would take any of the six listed above over Mahomes, Tribuski, et al, for the Cardinals.

Rosen was pretty damn horrible before his injury last year. Like he was going through a Hackenburg phase. Josh Allen is going to get the Favre/Cutler/Mahomes comparisons. I'll give you Darnold, but we know how most USC QBs do in the league.

Falk is just another system QB who struggles vs athletic defenses & unlike Mahomes, doesn't have the arm talent & Mobility. Browning? Yea....no thanks.

 

[Shaggy]

What's wrong with Dysert playing under the wing of Palmer/Stanton? Why not work with him to be the QB of the future?