Cards strike out at QB

[Finito]

so...lets say by next years draft Darnold is being hailed as the next Peyton Manning/Tom Brady type QB......

Steve Keim trades our entire draft to Cleveland for the 1st overall pick....we select the QB and walk out of the building.

would everyone be okay with this?...I would, if he is the guy for the next 15 years

Hell yes. I actually think this is the plan for SK

 

[Lagerfilled]

Hell yes. I actually think this is the plan for SK

Doubtful! They value draft picks too highly to trade all of them for one player. Not to mention, they're pretty darn good at the draft.

 

[Hollywood]

The Bears went and got a quarterback - the contract would indicate they thought Glennon would be the starter, thus not having to panic about "not having a starter day 1," which is what I was replying to. I don't personally view Glennon as a player I would ever want taking a snap for my team unless it was as a backup.

Maybe you are right. The bears clearly have it all figured out. After all, they DID win 14 games.....it just took them 3 years to do it.

All we would have had to do is give up more than the 2 3rd rd picks and a 4th rd pick and we could have had an above average qb to lead us to mediocrity for the next 4 years.

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[Southpaw]

Every drafted class needs 2-3 years before the final grade is in. Next year's class will have the same amount of skepticism and result.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

No thanks on all 3, especially Glennon & Alex Smith.

I feel like Kizer said that only because he didn't want to throw his douchebag former HC Brian Kelly under the bus, but that's just me.

On the radio they were talking about this situation...I think it was Pat Kirwin...and he was saying that Kelly really coaches and challenges his QBs hard...Jim Miller spoke up and said it's not a bad thing, but a good thing...and that Kizer has come across as someone that just doesn't have the fire and was looking for the easy way out. Kirwin said he would never draft a QB that needs to be fired up on the field...he should naturally want to be there and lead his team...and he just didn't see that with Kizer.

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[Solar7]

Maybe you are right. The bears clearly have it all figured out. After all, they DID win 14 games.....it just took them 3 years to do it.

All we would have had to do is give up more than the 2 3rd rd picks and a 4th rd pick and we could have had an above average qb to lead us to mediocrity for the next 4 years.

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You either didn't read my other posts on the subject or are intentionally nitpicking one part of a larger argument. I've already said we were priced out of the market in the first round. Such is life, we weren't getting one of the top 3.

However, we didn't take a flyer on a guy anywhere in the draft that didn't necessarily get drafted as the "QB of the future," but perhaps someone to replace Dysert and prevent us from needing to re-sign Stanton to be our #2 next year. And if we get REALLY lucky, our next Dak Prescott. We could have at least kept one of our 7s and drafted Chad Kelly.

Simple enough, we haven't picked a single QB in three years, so we know we're going to be in desperation mode next year.

 

[Cardiac]

Well we did bring in Dysert and Barkley (actually traded for him) and UDFA's which have a higher success rate then 7 th rd picks.

 

[juza76]

Well we did bring in Dysert and Barkley (actually traded for him) and UDFA's which have a higher success rate then 7 th rd picks.

The only positivenss u can see , they didnt play a single snap

 

[Shaggy]

Watch, dysert or one of the udfa qb's gets the job as #2 this year.

 

[Cardiac]

The only positivenss u can see , they didnt play a single snap

Nope and that is typically what happens with QB's drafted after rd 2 or picked up as UDFA's. So all this whining about not drafting these no shot QB"s is a waste of time IMO.

 

[DVontel]

pretty sure Darnold , Rosen, and Allen are all three better than any of the guys in this years draft........on Rosen... Drew Brees has a repaired throwing arm too, the saints still gave him a big contract and so far it looks like a good decision.

Can you explain what makes them better?

 

[Sunburn]

What makes "next year's class" better?

Sam Darnold USC 1 year starter.

Josh Rosen UCLA surgically repaired throwing shoulder and a hot and cold player.

Luke Falk - WSU "system QB" ( not my thought but no different than this years )

Mason Rudolph Okla S U another spread QB.

Josh Allen Wyoming - might be the real deal but we will hear the low level competition tag

Nate Sudfeld Indiana Big 10 bottom feeder.

Are these guys better , worse or on par with this year's class?

Can you explain what makes them better?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/w...g-until-2018-to-find-their-next-franchise-qb/

• Why did North Carolina’s Mitch Trubisky start just 13 games?
• Will Clemson’s Deshaun Watson’s lack of NFL throws in college impact his development?
• Is Texas Tech’s Patrick Mahomes a reckless gunslinger?
• Why did Cal’s Davis Webb transfer after losing his job to Mahomes at Texas Tech and can he translate his skills from a spread to the NFL?
• Why was Notre Dame’s DeShone Kizer so inconsistent?

“There are three guys for sure next year who would go ahead of all these guys ,” the AFC personnel director said.

 

[TheCardFan]

Nope and that is typically what happens with QB's drafted after rd 2 or picked up as UDFA's. So all this whining about not drafting these no shot QB"s is a waste of time IMO.

Prescott and Siemian - those are two starters in the last 3 years drafted after round 2 (4 and 7 actually). That doesn't account for the many #2 QB's and developing guys like Kessler, Cook, Jones, Hundley, Petty, Savage, McCarron, etc. Not saying those guys will be franchise guys but they are better than the #2/#3 options we have currently.

In addition, Cousins, Wilson, Brady, etc.

Your statement is wrong.

 

[Cardiac]

Prescott and Siemian - those are two starters in the last 3 years drafted after round 2 (4 and 7 actually). That doesn't account for the many #2 QB's and developing guys like Kessler, Cook, Jones, Hundley, Petty, Savage, McCarron, etc. Not saying those guys will be franchise guys but they are better than the #2/#3 options we have currently.

In addition, Cousins, Wilson, Brady, etc.

Your statement is wrong.

You forgot Montana, Warner and Romo but that pretty much completes the list over the past 40 years.

The hit % after the 2nd rd is less than 5 % of all the QB's who were drafted.

 

[DVontel]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/w...g-until-2018-to-find-their-next-franchise-qb/

• Why did North Carolina’s Mitch Trubisky start just 13 games?
• Will Clemson’s Deshaun Watson’s lack of NFL throws in college impact his development?
• Is Texas Tech’s Patrick Mahomes a reckless gunslinger?
• Why did Cal’s Davis Webb transfer after losing his job to Mahomes at Texas Tech and can he translate his skills from a spread to the NFL?
• Why was Notre Dame’s DeShone Kizer so inconsistent?

“There are three guys for sure next year who would go ahead of all these guys ,” the AFC personnel director said.

This didn't explain anything that makes them better. Their footwork, IQ, accuracy, etc. None of that. It just says that next year's class will be better with no evidence. Just assumptions.

 

[Proximo]

Watch, dysert or one of the udfa qb's gets the job as #2 this year.

Would not surprise me, they still dream of being a starter, Stanton is just collecting a paycheck and is getting worse every year.

 

[Sunburn]

This didn't explain anything that makes them better. Their footwork, IQ, accuracy, etc. None of that. It just says that next year's class will be better with no evidence. Just assumptions.

It stands as evidence. These are professional opinions. I'm not going to break down statistics and film between this year's QB's and next year's QB's. That's more work than I'm willing to put in. I will say that, in addition to this article I found for you, literally every professional scout is saying next year's QB's are better than this year's. Since you want to give out homework assignments, how bout one for yourself. Give me any source that says this year's QB's are as good or better than next year's. Break it down for me yourself. Hell, give me any evidence that this year's class is as good as next year's class. I'll gladly retract my position.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The best qb the Cards have drafted in the 30 years they have been in AZ was Jake Plummer. No one else has even been worth mentioning except as disappointments or failures.

I guess that is why I dont get that excited about drafting QB's

 

[DVontel]

It stands as evidence. These are professional opinions. I'm not going to break down statistics and film between this year's QB's and next year's QB's. That's more work than I'm willing to put in. I will say that, in addition to this article I found for you, literally every professional scout is saying next year's QB's are better than this year's. Since you want to give out homework assignments, how bout one for yourself. Give me any source that says this year's QB's are as good or better than next year's. Break it down for me yourself. Hell, give me any evidence that this year's class is as good as next year's class. I'll gladly retract my position.

That's exactly what is. Opinions. Not facts, but opinions. Assumptions, if you will.

I'm not going to waste my time with this if all you're going to do is give me assumptions.

If YOU(Not "professional opinions") explain to me reasons on what makes Darnold, Rosen, & Allen better prospects than Watson, Trubisky, & Mahomes, then I will you your props. Otherwise, let's just end this discussion.

 

[Sunburn]

The best qb the Cards have drafted in the 30 years they have been in AZ was Jake Plummer. No one else has even been worth mentioning except as disappointments or failures.

I guess that is why I dont get that excited about drafting QB's

Haha good point. Drafting a QB is a roll of the dice. Only difference is, some of the die have more sides than the others.

 

[Sunburn]

That's exactly what is. Opinions. Not facts, but opinions. Assumptions, if you will.

I'm not going to waste my time with this if all you're going to do is give me assumptions.

If YOU(Not "professional opinions") explain to me reasons on what makes Darnold, Rosen, & Allen better prospects than Watson, Trubisky, & Mahomes, then I will you your props. Otherwise, let's just end this discussion.

Oh come on. I at least gave you some evidence that next year's class is better than this year's, however subjective. You can't give me anything??? Pretty please with sugar on top.

Jk. I don't think either one of us want to put in the research to definitively win this argument lol. Agree to disagree.

 

[TheCardFan]

You forgot Montana, Warner and Romo but that pretty much completes the list over the past 40 years.

The hit % after the 2nd rd is less than 5 % of all the QB's who were drafted.

5% in round 3-7 (5 rounds total). What is the hit rate outside of the top 5 picks in just round 1? 16% in the last 10 years (2/12)...Flacco and Tannehill. Those guys are not great either.

To say that you shouldn't take risks outside of round 2 is wrong. You shouldn't take risks outside of the top 5 in round 1. Much worse when you miss in round 1.

 

[BigRedRage]

Thank you. I thought I was the only person who thinks that it isn't a guarantee that Palmer is leaving next year.

Or Bruce imo

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[BigRedRage]

That's assuming BA is still here.

I don't see him leaving but maybe it's just because I don't want him to. Everyone talks about his age but Pete Carroll is the same age, coughlin even older

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[Cardiac]

5% in round 3-7 (5 rounds total). What is the hit rate outside of the top 5 picks in just round 1? 16% in the last 10 years (2/12)...Flacco and Tannehill. Those guys are not great either.

To say that you shouldn't take risks outside of round 2 is wrong. You shouldn't take risks outside of the top 5 in round 1. Much worse when you miss in round 1.

The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)

7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

I misremembered the miss % after the 2nd rd but as you can see by far the best rd to draft a QB is in rd 1. In this round the hit % is better than the WR, RB and DL positions. In rounds 4 thru 6 QB's have the worst success rate than any other position. 7th rd success is only 6 %.

Finding that great QB is probably harder than any other position and if you want to get to a SB drafting a QB in the top 5 picks by far gives a team their best chance. I can't find that post but the odds are staggering.

If BASK don't draft a QB next year then I'll grab a pitchfork with everyone else and storm the castle.