Cards up offer to Kurt????

[Ronin]

Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!
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Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!
Leinart!

Why?
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[moklerman]

I thought the FO already said they weren't going to budge on 2/20? If so, does it really matter whether or not they say they're really not going to budge this time?

Has the stance and contract been based on what Warner is worth to the team or what his market value is? If his market value is 13, 14 or whatever, are the Cardinals being cheap since they have the money to match?

 

[Stout]

If this offer is true, then Warner needs to sign it. $12+ is the offer that I'd say is more than fair out of everything that's been said so far. His agent can feel good about himself because he wasn't the one who blinked and Warner gets a nice chunk of change. I hope he signs and we can all move on.

Moklerman, for the first time since FA began, we agree completely. If he doesn't take this contract, will you be convinced that he's wrong? Granted, I really hope he accepts it, but I won't cry if he doesn't.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Are you saying that's where they should spend it or would spend it?

At this point I'm feeling an extension to Rackers is more likely.

I'd like to see Q here. Rackers too.

Paying Warner more money that could go to those players and other free agents is ridiculous IMHO. The original offer to Kurt was more than fair.

I disagree with a statement I heard made by Warner recently. He said something along the lines of "I'm not only looking to be paid for the next two seasons...I'm looking to be compensated for what I've done in the past for this team."

Uh, you were compensated. You played under contract and cashed your checks from the team.

The current offer is for what Kurt can do in the next two years and has nothing to do with his performance in the past (which was both good and bad).

(Man, I could never own a team or deal with player contracts...)

 

[SuperSpck]

I'd like to see Q here. Rackers too.

Paying Warner more money that could go to those players and other free agents is ridiculous IMHO. The original offer to Kurt was more than fair.

I disagree with a statement I heard made by Warner recently. He said something along the lines of "I'm not only looking to be paid for the next two seasons...I'm looking to be compensated for what I've done in the past for this team."

Uh, you were compensated. You played under contract and cashed your checks from the team.

The current offer is for what Kurt can do in the next two years and has nothing to do with his performance in the past (which was both good and bad).

(Man, I could never own a team or deal with player contracts...)

Was joking when I said Rackers, as he was an unlikely candidate for an extension.

This has been a messy offseason and all parties involved should be included in this thread:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f13/new-game-whos-the-biggest-douchebag-85050.html

 

[moklerman]

Moklerman, for the first time since FA began, we agree completely. If he doesn't take this contract, will you be convinced that he's wrong?

I would say so if the 49ers deal is anything around the same amount. If they're offering 5M+ more with more guarentees or incentives or whatever it would be a tougher call. However, I wouldn't be "convinced" because this is new information. I still don't know if this was the offer all along or if they upped their other offer and we don't know what the terms are.

If reports of a 1 year, no gaurentee, $10M deal with a club option for 2010 are true then will you concede that the Cardinals were in the wrong?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Was joking when I said Rackers, as he was an unlikely candidate for an extension.

 

[conraddobler]

Graves does stink at comming with real offers once and standing firm.

Stop trying to act like my dad buying a car, man it's just so transparent.

My dads method is to make ridiculous offers and toy with people then walk away after about a day of talking, I swear some salesmen have quit the business after a day with my dad.

Graves starts out just like my dad, TOO LOW EVERY TIME.

It's tough to take.

 

[Shane]

I pray they DID NOT up their offer!

 

[conraddobler]

I pray they DID NOT up their offer!

I've been realistic in thinking they would go after Warner, I had no illusiions even though I think it has a high probablility of being a mistake I undestand but how this went down is just flat out dissapointing.

You either want the guy back at x price or not, don't dicker around with a guy who led your team to a SB, there should be no where near this much room to go up on your offer, doing so is just pure pathetic negotiating.

You're intial offer was crap or you're panicing and overpaying, either way you stink at this.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Michael Smith of ESPN was just on TV and said the same thing.

2 years 23 million, 12.5 mill gauranteed.

Looks like the cards are using my logic of adding about 25% to Collins deal.

 

[conraddobler]

Looks like the cards are using my logic of adding about 25% to Collins deal.

Yeah now.

Why shred yourself in a circus?

I think it's scary some posters can name contract values better than our FO.

This one did not have to be this hard, either you want the guy back or not, don't go chasing your tail in public you're just inviting future hades onto yourself as now every agent will maul you to get your best offer.

It's stupid.

 

[moklerman]

You're intial offer was crap or you're panicing and overpaying, either way you stink at this.

I agree and I think that's a big part of why Warner has been confused by the process. I'd bet that he and Bartlestein were just playing the negotiating game by coming in at $14M - $16M but when the Cardinals started low and drew a line in the sand they just said screw it, we'll act like this was actually our line in the sand.

If the Cardinals would have just gone to $12.5M or $13M to meet half way and given some guarantees the deal would have done before FA.

 

[moklerman]

It seems like "everyone" thought $12M-ish was the number all along that would be acceptable to both sides.

 

[Shane]

I've been realistic in thinking they would go after Warner, I had no illusiions even though I think it has a high probablility of being a mistake I undestand but how this went down is just flat out dissapointing.

You either want the guy back at x price or not, don't dicker around with a guy who led your team to a SB, there should be no where near this much room to go up on your offer, doing so is just pure pathetic negotiating.

You're intial offer was crap or you're panicing and overpaying, either way you stink at this.

Nope. Completely disagree.

 

[Stout]

I would say so if the 49ers deal is anything around the same amount. If they're offering 5M+ more with more guarentees or incentives or whatever it would be a tougher call. However, I wouldn't be "convinced" because this is new information. I still don't know if this was the offer all along or if they upped their other offer and we don't know what the terms are.

If reports of a 1 year, no gaurentee, $10M deal with a club option for 2010 are true then will you concede that the Cardinals were in the wrong?

Absolutely agree. If it was 10 mill, all guaranteed, club option for 2010 at another 10 mill, I could possibly see it as an okay deal depending on how it was structured. That way, he gets huge bonus money and the possibility of another huge payday if he plays well next season. If not, he still walks away with the big cash. Because, realistically, if it's a two-year deal, the second year's salary won't be guaranteed anyway, basically making it a club option in all but name.

But, if it's as bad as what you say at the end of your post, the Cards were definitely wrong.

 

[JS22]

all I can keep hearing are Kurt's words at the big red rage last season:

"I dont play for the stats, I dont play for the records, I dont play for the MONEY or any of that stuff... I PLAY TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS."

If Kurt leaves us (you know, the team that was 2 mins away from said championship) for a couple million extra dollars to play for a team that hasn't had a winning record since 2002, well then it's official, he's a hypocrite and I say good riddance because he wont be leaving for any other reason than MONEY.

Weren't the Niners a draw play away from owning the tie-breaker against the Cardinals? And don't you think putting Warner on that team would have at least given them an extra win or two?

It's not ALL about the money, but the Cardinals should have never low-balled him with their initial offer.

 

[moklerman]

It's not ALL about the money, but the Cardinals should have never low-balled him with their initial offer.

Starting low is fine--and expected. It's the proclamation of not going any higher with that low offer.

It was either a bad evaluation by the FO of Warner's market value, not sticking to their guns on what they considered a good offer or screwing with their pro bowl QB that the coach has stated he wants back.

Being financially smart and trying to get production for as little as possible is fine but not when it escalates to a point where it starts costing the team in other areas.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Weren't the Niners a draw play away from owning the tie-breaker against the Cardinals?

9-7 (6-0) compared to 7-9 (3-3)

Instead of 2-0 HTH we'd have been 1-1 HTH. Tie-breaker?

Both teams would have finished 8-8 with the HTH even...the Cards still win the division 5-1 to the Niners 4-2 record, right?

 

[JS22]

9-7 (6-0) compared to 7-9 (3-3)

Instead of 2-0 HTH we'd have been 1-1 HTH. Tie-breaker?

Both teams would have finished 8-8 with the HTH even...the Cards still win the division 5-1 to the Niners 4-2 record, right?

Guess you are right? It's just what I heard on the radio today. I wasn't exactly sure. But I still think adding Warner to that team would have given them at least an extra win or two. And they did improve under Singletary. So they're not as far behind the Cardinals as some think - especially if you remove Warner from AZ and add him to SF. His numbers won't be quite as good, but he will definitely be an improvement.

 

[SeattleCard]

pay the man!

 

[Shane]

pay the man!

Not a penny more that 10.5 million. PAY HIM!

 

[Redsz]

23 over two years is more than I was expecting. That's more than fair IMO. He should take it.

 

[perivolaki]

I assume you were listening to Bickley and MJ today. They were completely trashing the Cards today. I flipped between them and Gambo and Ash and they were a little lighter, seeming to be right in the middle.

The callers on Bick and MJ never give counterpoint arguments against their thinking. They are sheep. If Bick said the sky were red, callers would call in and talk about what contrast of red it is and analyze it from every imaginable angle.

Be careful what you hear from the media. They always have an agenda.

The funny thing is that several weeks ago before negotiations began MJ said that 8M a year for two years was a good offer and more than fair. Then when negotiations began and Warner balked at 8M and the Cards went to 10M per year they thought that was more than fair.

Now they have just lost their minds and seem to be saying the Cards should just give Kurt whatever he wants when a couple of weeks ago they thought half of what he wants now was fair.

Most of the callers don't have any knowledge at all and just stoke the fire.

 

[Totally_Red]

The funny thing is that several weeks ago before negotiations began MJ said that 8M a year for two years was a good offer and more than fair. Then when negotiations began and Warner balked at 8M and the Cards went to 10M per year they thought that was more than fair.

Now they have just lost their minds and seem to be saying the Cards should just give Kurt whatever he wants when a couple of weeks ago they thought half of what he wants now was fair.

Most of the callers don't have any knowledge at all and just stoke the fire.

10-million is fair when you are bidding against yourself. I don't think anyone including the Cardinals expected the Niners to put a full-court press on Kurt. That ups the ante.

I really believe the Cardinals have a one, or possibly two year, window until the rest of the division closes the gap. It may even happen THIS season. We need to win NOW not take a step back and gather ourselves.

Kurt is built for the playoffs and post-season IMO. Matt may be a decent qb in time, but younger qb's did not fare all that well in the post-season. Joe Flacco did win a couple games, but Tarvaris Jackson and Matt Ryan flamed out in round one.

The key component Kurt brings is leadership. I really think that more than anything else is why San Francisco is pulling out all the stops. They don't need an MVP season. They need a strong leader on offense to be half-way respectable.

But, I still don't think Kurt fares very well in that Niner offense. It's New York all over again. Excellent running back, tight end with potential, no #1 wide receivers, and a very suspect O-line. When all is said and done if the Cardinals are within 1 or 2 million, I think he's a Cardinal in 2009.